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OfflineRemix
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder]
    #14443486 - 05/13/11 01:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

BUT YOU DON'T KNO FER SHURE BRO CUZ THERE'S NO SCIENCE! :trolldance:

Nice debate, though. Had fun.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: Remix]
    #14443491 - 05/13/11 01:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm with erowid on this one

"Chemicals marked on Erowid by our Research Chemical Symbol should be considered experimental chemicals. Although some people are willing to ingest these chemicals for their effects, it is not reasonable to assume that these chemicals are in any way 'safe' to use recreationally. Although all psychoactive use involves risk, this class of chemicals has undergone virtually no human or animal toxicity studies and there is little to no data on possible long term problems, addiction potential, allergic reactions, or acute overdoses.

Publication of information by Erowid about human use of these chemicals is not intended to endorse their non-laboratory use. It is important to remember that reactions to psychoactives vary dramatically from person to person. Extrapolating anything from any single person's experience with a chemical is inappropriate and may result in dangerous and possibly fatal adverse reactions.

Some reports of use may include extremely glowing "wow"-type experiences. Reports of this nature should not be misunderstood to suggest that they are common or typical of those who ingest the substance, or that the effects will be pleasant or desirable."

LSD all the way nig.


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OfflineRemix
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder]
    #14443508 - 05/13/11 02:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
LSD all the way nig.




:bigyesnod: No disagreements there, mang.


BTW, I've been tripping balls on mescaline-cacti throughout this entire debate. :lol:


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: Remix]
    #14443513 - 05/13/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lol nice! Mescaline has got a pretty reasonable ld50 compared to active dose.


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Offlinekelpfish
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Registered: 04/17/10
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder]
    #14458718 - 05/15/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Awh u fuckers I said it so many times Fuck RC's
LSD only
And you still argue that these RC are safe lmao

RC's!@!!!! RESEARCH CHEMICALS
LSD HAs BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS
YEARS!@!!!

These RC's Have not stood the test of time and the test them selves on humans.

Fuck em I say Ban em all one less thing for you to die off of.

Keep it simple stick to what you already know...If anything at all.

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InvisiblelasdR
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: kelpfish]
    #14458836 - 05/15/11 08:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kelpfish said:
Awh u fuckers I said it so many times Fuck RC's
LSD only
And you still argue that these RC are safe lmao

RC's!@!!!! RESEARCH CHEMICALS
LSD HAs BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS
YEARS!@!!!

These RC's Have not stood the test of time and the test them selves on humans.

Fuck em I say Ban em all one less thing for you to die off of.

Keep it simple stick to what you already know...If anything at all.





Wow, curb your ignorance there, sonny boy. lsd happens to be the the oldest chemical, that is all.  the 2c series was actually found shortly after the LSD thing became a mainstream thing in the 60s. so it has been around for 50 years. I know you are just following your primal instincts here, being suspicious of anything that is unknown and what not. what they sayin'? haters gon' hate. i

f you wanna ban something because its potentially deadly, how about people driving cars? thats only about a few million a year. or what about misslabeled and faulty pharma pills?.. :uhoh:


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OfflineSeascapeShroomerGT
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: lasdR]
    #14459042 - 05/15/11 08:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.newson6.com/story/14641463/second-victim-dies-after-taking-designer-drug-in-konawa

Bromo-Dragonfly goddammit. These kids took a HUGE dose of it too. 2c-E has never caused these symptoms before and it wasn't the culprit here. The chem supply company that mixed these chemicals up should be in serious legal trouble, this really wasn't anyone's fault but there's. Switching a chemical with 10-20 mg doses with one whose doses are measured in micrograms is fucking retarded. They need to be held accountable for this.


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Everything I post is a lie. None of it has ever occurred.

"The people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not… fuck with us. “

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: SeascapeShroomerGT]
    #14459065 - 05/15/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SeascapeShroomerGT said:
The chem supply company that mixed these chemicals up should be in serious legal trouble



BULLSHIT!  It's the damn kids fault for eating something out of a bag that says "NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION"


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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OfflineSeascapeShroomerGT
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder]
    #14459103 - 05/15/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
Quote:

SuperD said:
You need to learn that the dosage of a chemical is what makes it safe or a poison.  Natural or synthetic has nothing to do with it.




Goddamnit! You people keep citing dosage???

Any drug with an ld50 possible 6 times that of an average dose is not a drug to be defended and regarded as safe!!!!

Plus, there is NOOOOOOOOO research to show that even low doses of these chemicals aren't toxic!!!!!!! Jesus fucking Christ!!!! Learn the facts!!!

It's POSSIBLE that taking 20mg of 2c-X 3 times in your life won't cause any long-term damage. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THIS so stop fucking telling people it's true.  Have you even talked to o e person who ate 2c-X 40 years ago and can verify that they were unaffected in the long-run??

NOOO

You people are crazy.






This whole story is full of confusion and misinformation. The substance they bought wasn't even 2c-e and multiple people suggested that this must have been a mix up.
If you knew ANYTHING about the 2c family you would have known that seizures and coughing up blood have never been reported from those doses, and people have supposedly taken quite a bit more than that without this happening.
If one of the kids had gotten sick, then an overdose from 2c-e would have been plausible but the fact that they all got very very ill and 2 of them died clearly indicates a tainted batch or a mix up from the chem supply website.
You're just buying into the propaganda and using quotes from these news articles to claim that you know the LD50 of 2c-e. It is probably not in the 125 mg range even without a tolerance, if this was 2c-anything these kids would have just had a horrible trip and maybe some vomiting, not hospitalizations, comas, and deaths.


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Everything I post is a lie. None of it has ever occurred.

"The people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not… fuck with us. “

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OfflineSeascapeShroomerGT
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14459146 - 05/15/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah sorry i should have said the only people at fault were the kids and the chem supply company. But wiccan seeker can tell you all about how bad a screw up like this can be, and he's very experienced with RC's. If you went to buy a pill of esctasy and your dealer gave you 150 doses of a similar substance, you'd be very pissed off at him. These kids took what should have been non-lethal (albeit very high) doses of this stuff assuming it was 2c-e, this isn't a case of people taking way way too much. This was a lethal amount of a toxic substance being sold as something with much higher dosages, and the only reason the chem supply company won't get in trouble is because of the "Not for human consumption" label. Maybe if this stuff was 100% legal and regulated this wouldn't have happened  :shake:


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Everything I post is a lie. None of it has ever occurred.

"The people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not… fuck with us. “

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: SeascapeShroomerGT]
    #14459166 - 05/15/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SeascapeShroomerGT said:
Maybe if this stuff was 100% legal and regulated this wouldn't have happened  :shake:



Exactly.  You never see people die from alcohol or tobacco products because they bought them and received a different drug altogether...  It doesn't take a genius to figure this out either, it just shows that drug policy has nothing to do about people well being or safety.

"Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results"

Isn't this a good definition for insanity?  Didn't we already make a drug (alcohol) illegal and then see the damage it caused and then make it bought with certain taxes and restrictions?  YES!  I guess policy makers are fucking insane or don't give a fuck about our saftey... i don't think we vote nut jobs in office either... or do we???


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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OfflineSeascapeShroomerGT
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14459452 - 05/15/11 10:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It seems like almost any time an incident like this sadly occurs, it can be traced back to prohibition somehow.

EXACTLY!! No one is ever given something lethal instead of asprin or given a huge amount of alcohol with no instructions on how much to take, but instead "DO NOT CONSUME"


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Everything I post is a lie. None of it has ever occurred.

"The people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not… fuck with us. “

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OfflineRemix
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14459455 - 05/15/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I guess policy makers are fucking insane or don't give a fuck about our saftey... i don't think we vote nut jobs in office either... or do we???




They have alternative motives that revolve around self-interest.

If public safety were REALLY the concern the laws would've changed a long time ago.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: SeascapeShroomerGT]
    #14460278 - 05/16/11 01:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SeascapeShroomerGT said:
Quote:

LightShedder said:
Quote:

SuperD said:
You need to learn that the dosage of a chemical is what makes it safe or a poison.  Natural or synthetic has nothing to do with it.




Goddamnit! You people keep citing dosage???

Any drug with an ld50 possible 6 times that of an average dose is not a drug to be defended and regarded as safe!!!!

Plus, there is NOOOOOOOOO research to show that even low doses of these chemicals aren't toxic!!!!!!! Jesus fucking Christ!!!! Learn the facts!!!

It's POSSIBLE that taking 20mg of 2c-X 3 times in your life won't cause any long-term damage. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THIS so stop fucking telling people it's true.  Have you even talked to o e person who ate 2c-X 40 years ago and can verify that they were unaffected in the long-run??

NOOO

You people are crazy.






This whole story is full of confusion and misinformation. The substance they bought wasn't even 2c-e and multiple people suggested that this must have been a mix up.
If you knew ANYTHING about the 2c family you would have known that seizures and coughing up blood have never been reported from those doses, and people have supposedly taken quite a bit more than that without this happening.
If one of the kids had gotten sick, then an overdose from 2c-e would have been plausible but the fact that they all got very very ill and 2 of them died clearly indicates a tainted batch or a mix up from the chem supply website.
You're just buying into the propaganda and using quotes from these news articles to claim that you know the LD50 of 2c-e. It is probably not in the 125 mg range even without a tolerance, if this was 2c-anything these kids would have just had a horrible trip and maybe some vomiting, not hospitalizations, comas, and deaths.





Actually mr. "tripped roller smoker", I do t get my facts from propaganda. The only one giving into propaganda is you by stupidly claiming the 2c-s are safe.

www.erowid.org

You can read, correct?


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OfflineJoe Joe
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder] * 1
    #14460424 - 05/16/11 02:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well thank God that Shulgin was so against experimenting with all of the chemicals he synthed.

Oh, wait.  I forgot that he wasn't a pussy and he had enough confidence in his own intelligence to take a calculated risk. 

I'm going back to my other forum.  Too many Shroomerites being completely hypocritical.  Think about what people were saying about LSD and the other "new, dangerous, untested" chemicals in the 60's. 



One more thing.  If you aren't high enough on the food chain to know FOR SURE that you're getting LSD, or if you've ever taken a pressed pill, then chances are that you've sampled one or more "research chemicals" and you don't even know it.

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OfflineSeascapeShroomerGT
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder]
    #14462922 - 05/16/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What are you talking about?? I never once called them safe...

I simply said that those symptoms are not commonly (if ever) reported with 2c use, and people have been taking doses bigger than that for awhile.

I'm just saying that if you knew anything about these drugs, then "Coughing up blood" and an entire group of people becoming seriously PHYSICALLY ill from doses that have been experimented with, then that should have been a red flag that there was a bad batch or a chemical mix up.

Oh thank you so much for that link to the Erowid home page, IDK what i would have done with myself without it :wink:

Here: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2ce/2ce_effects.shtml


Maybe you'd like to show me the part describing the LD50 you seem to be so sure of? Or where it says that coughing up blood, becoming seriously sick for over a week, and death are reported from 2c-e?


Please research substances before giving us your 2 cents and putting words in my mouth.

I NEVER claimed the 2c's were safe.

You're right we have no idea what the long term effects are. But you assuming that they're toxic when we have NO evidence either way is just as silly as someone claiming they're safe.

This story is a sad fuck-up. I'm really sorry that this happened but I highly doubt that the news networks will ever run a national story explaining the mix up here, 2c-e will probably be blamed for it.


And to the person above me, QFT! People have lost touch with the fact that ALL drugs were new and unresearched at some point, from LSD to PMA. Some are safer drugs some are more dangerous. Until we know for sure guessing in either way is dumb. If you're not comfortable putting an untested substance in your body, then don't, and go post somewhere else. This site is for educated discussions of controlled substances and other topics, and people coming in flaming drugs they don't like is not going to further any scientific discovery.


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Everything I post is a lie. None of it has ever occurred.

"The people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not… fuck with us. “

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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: SeascapeShroomerGT]
    #14463428 - 05/16/11 05:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lol I never said they were toxic. Yes you and many other people have said 2c-e is safe at recreational dosages. So long as you agree that's not true then believe me, we are in no disagreement.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder]
    #14463463 - 05/16/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

" If you're not comfortable putting an untested substance in your body, then don't, and go post somewhere else. This site is for educated discussions of controlled substances and other topics, and people coming in flaming drugs they don't like is not going to further any scientific discovery."

Are you serious? I've pointed out the fact that 2c-e is not known to be safe. You have countered that, I believe every moderator and reasonably intelligent member of this site would agree that it's fools like you that need to go post elsewhere. Flaming drugs? More like being reasonable. Unlike you.


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OfflineSeascapeShroomerGT
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: LightShedder]
    #14464856 - 05/16/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
Quote:

SuperD said:
You need to learn that the dosage of a chemical is what makes it safe or a poison.  Natural or synthetic has nothing to do with it.




Goddamnit! You people keep citing dosage???

Any drug with an ld50 possible 6 times that of an average dose is not a drug to be defended and regarded as safe!!!!

Plus, there is NOOOOOOOOO research to show that even low doses of these chemicals aren't toxic!!!!!!! Jesus fucking Christ!!!! Learn the facts!!!

It's POSSIBLE that taking 20mg of 2c-X 3 times in your life won't cause any long-term damage. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THIS so stop fucking telling people it's true.  Have you even talked to o e person who ate 2c-X 40 years ago and can verify that they were unaffected in the long-run??

NOOO

You people are crazy.



^^^^Look at yourself, your argument is based on the LD50 being 6x the average dose, because some kids took an entirely different substance. You're right, there is no research whatsoever on these chemicals. SO WE SHOULD NOT ASSUME EITHER WAY. Just because there is no proof they are toxic, that doesn't make them safe, and vice versa.



Quote:

LightShedder said:
lol I never said they were toxic. Yes you and many other people have said 2c-e is safe at recreational dosages. So long as you agree that's not true then believe me, we are in no disagreement.




I NEVER SAID THEY WERE SAFE PLEASE SHOW ME A QUOTE WHERE I CALLED THEM SAFE


--------------------
Everything I post is a lie. None of it has ever occurred.

"The people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not… fuck with us. “

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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: 1 Dead, 7 Hospitalized in Konawa, OK. 2C-E suspected. [Re: SeascapeShroomerGT]
    #14465092 - 05/16/11 09:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Belittling the danger would have been a more accurate way to describe it. And looking back, touché, you haven't been as bad as others.

But more importantly, show me where I said "2c-e is toxic" like you and so many others claim. You said "But you assuming that they're toxic". When all I've ever done is tell people we have no clue when they stated that they knew. I eat 2c-e. Don't get me wrong. But I would be an idiot to tell someone it's safe for sure, even at recreational doses. I'd confidently tell someone they could eat 25mg of LSD with no damage but I wouldn't say I know 25mg of 2c-e isn't damaging. And yes, I've researched everything there is to research about every research chemical, including reading all of shulgins books. If any of you have gathered that 2c-e is proven safe in low doses from any of the information available, please provide a reference.

Quit telling me to do research when it's obvious you either haven't, or have misunderstood something along the way.


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