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Offlinebik123
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Registered: 07/31/10
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autoclave bags
    #14438927 - 05/12/11 07:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I do not have autoclave bags.

What i do is, after autoclaving, i pour into clean, pasteurized pails and once cooled, pour into new PE bags.

Could the plastic bag contribute to contamination, as i suspect it. For some are ok and colonizing while others,in same steps, contaminates. Ive streamlined the possibilities and now think, it could be one of the reasons. Possible?


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Offlinehoudinihar
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Re: autoclave bags [Re: bik123]
    #14439019 - 05/12/11 07:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i believe you open yourself to unnecessary contamination if you sterilize then place into a pasteurized container-you are transferring from a cleaner area to a less clean area, thern back into PE bags -clean, not clean, sterile or not?

Quote:

Could the plastic bag contribute to contamination, as i suspect it. For some are ok and colonizing while others,in same steps, contaminates




the plastic could only be a contaminating agent if it weren't sterile. just grabbing a bag out of where it's been sitting for awhile doesn't make it sterile.
as for some being ok and others not, stamets has mentioned in his book that it is a practical impossibility to have a perfectly sterilized unit with autoclaves because some endospores may actually survive the process, and he said the problem is worse on very large units.
of course, the other vectors of contamination kick in later during cooldown, transfer and finally inoculation of the substrate. if you aren't in a really clean room using at least a  hepa filtered flowhood, then you set yourself up for failure at the onset.
you can even use a good glove box and spray everything with lysol and wipe down your work area with chlorox and spray with alcohol later. some things will be able to be grown ok, but others will inevitably contaminate. it also depends on current spore loads in the air around your space, and so many other variables.
check your vectors and clean up your act first. contaminants abound in our hobby.

houdinihar


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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: autoclave bags [Re: houdinihar]
    #14439477 - 05/12/11 10:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What substrate are you talking about?  If you don't have autoclavable bags I wouldn't try to use sterile substrates.  Just pasteurize your substrate in your pail and go from there.  You're never going to get consistent results with the process you describe above. 

I don't have an extremely clean room or a flow hood but I get consistent results in my janky home made glove box.  They could obviously be better with better equipment but we all find the sweet spot when it comes to consistency for our own needs.


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Offlinecurry
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Re: autoclave bags [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #14442514 - 05/12/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

New PE bags are completely sterile if they are like ziplock bags, or like tubing, which is what I use.  The heat from the production of the bags would kill anything on the inside... just as long as it hasn't been opened to the air.  After steam sterilizing, I transfer my substrate directly from my steam bag to the bag I make out of tubing, which works well for me (just one transfer).


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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: autoclave bags [Re: curry]
    #14442737 - 05/12/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't get it curry do you make your transfer in open air?  What species are you growing?  If you're talking about an oyster log then I'd say you don't need to sterilize in the first place.


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Offlinecurry
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Re: autoclave bags [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #14443169 - 05/13/11 12:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I agree... with blue oysters you could get your water from a toilet and a bag out the the trash, and they'd grow just fine.  Kings are little more fennicky, but will still eat small amounts of trich.  I've noticed shitake will even eat small amounts of trich once it gets good and established.  I also am growing reishi, and they will eat trich no problem.  So, yes, I do my transfers in open air, and make 25 pound blocks (I use 20" tubing).  I use an iron to seal one end of the tubing, and use a piece of 3" pvc pipe with a tyvek cover on the other end.  I don't use gloves, I don't clean anything, and I have very little contam issues.  I do PC my grain jars, of course, and am careful on transfers to not touch inside the bag, etc, but I think sometimes we get too caught up in worrying about contams that we make growing woodlovers overly difficult.  Just my 2 cents.


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