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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: millar]
    #14441555 - 05/12/11 06:49 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

millar said:
How about actually creating a system that works well enough, without the bloodsuckers at the top taking 90%, that no one would really care about a million or two extra people there? Most of the illegal immigrants are doing jobs none of you want to do anyway, and its such a small problem compared to the blatant exploitation by the rich.



"Bloodsuckers at the top?"

The only bloodsuckers are at the bottom.  More than half of the population pays nothing in taxes.


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OfflineJT
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: millar]
    #14441668 - 05/12/11 07:14 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

crack down on deportation, but improve the system to promote legal immigration. They're not gonna stop coming, but the attitude of many potential immigrants would drastically change if they knew there was a legitimate way into our country. Even if there's a 2 year waiting period, just having the option would make jumpg the border seem ridiculous. And if them if they're caught here illegally from ever getting a permit.

Give them work permits and 5 years to test the waters. Create an extra tax on them for the cost to manage this and to pay back taxes depending upon the social services they use. Gonna have a kid? Cool, he's a citizen and can go to our schools, but the parent needs to pay their fair share for his education or they parent will be deported. Same with ER's, directly garnish their wages if they don't pay. We should have strong fiscal monitoring power over them until they become citizens. It shouldn't be a walk in the park. Those that come in and work hard at legitimate jobs and pay taxes should have the chance to prove themselves, and those that are leeches will lose their work permits and be deported.

I know, that plan is full of holes. Who's to stop them from just disappearing after they get their work permits because they can't pay? And I have no idea how the funding would work out. That's the basic way I feel though...find a way to strongly encourage legal immigration, and crack down HARD on the illegals.

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InvisibleTherian
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: JT]
    #14442877 - 05/12/11 11:07 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

They're not gonna stop coming, but the attitude of many potential immigrants would drastically change if they knew there was a legitimate way into our country. Even if there's a 2 year waiting period, just having the option would make jumpg the border seem ridiculous. And if them if they're caught here illegally from ever getting a permit.




How much bs can you fit into one paragraph? There is a legitimate way into our country, over a million people utilize it per year, it's called LEGAL immigration. People will jump the border just so they wouldn't have to wait the two years. Not only that they will do it while carrying their rat-like vermin, spawns of satan invivo.

We can stop them from illegally crossing our borders when they are 9 months pregnant. We tell them the american taxpayer will only be all to glad to cover the huge expense of you giving birth here, but you will be having an anchor donor baby. As soon as the thing is born it should be euthanized and have its organs harvested for Americans. This would offset the cost of the delivery. Of course the parents would then be summarily deported.

Promote legal immigration? Have you seen the national unemployment rate? There aren't even enough jobs for our own citizens. Our social programs are broke, we can't afford any more freeloaders. You want em, you pay for their clothing, food, shelter, education, retirement, health care, incarceration costs, etc.

No, you are incorrect, you can stop them from coming. If we allowed the minuteman types to gut shoot all illegals as they crossed the border, ensuring them a long, and anguished death, that would stop them. We could then allow their fat, greasy mexican bodies to become dessicated in the heat, eventually allowing them to receive their just reward as their corpses are scattered throughout the desert in the form of coyote shit.

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Therian]
    #14443503 - 05/13/11 02:02 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Wow...:picard:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Therian]
    #14443793 - 05/13/11 04:33 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

> Promote legal immigration?

I have no problem promoting legal immigration as long as the same laws apply as Mexico has for their immigrants:

(paraphrased from wiki)
Quote:

Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters.

Immigration must be deemed appropriate, and assimilate to the national average and their proper distribution throughout the country.

Foreign nationals are restricted when the national interest so requires.

Immigration to urban population centers can be restricted to ensure effective delivery public services.

Foreigners are subject to approval concerning appropriate activities they will pursue, and the location of residence.

Immigrants must be useful elements for the country and have the income needed for subsistence and persons under their economic dependence.

Foreigners may be denied entry for the following reasons, if: No international reciprocity, The national demographic balance is altered, It is deemed harmful to the national economic interests, he/she has violated national law or have a poor record abroad, deemed not physically or mentally healthy. For a foreigner to pursue other activities in addition to those that have been expressly authorized, requires permission from the Interior Ministry.

The authorities of the Republic, whether federal, local or municipal, as well as public notaries, are obliged to check if foreigners are legally in the country.

... etc ...





In Mexico, legal immigrants are not allowed to own land, are not allowed to hold office, must live where they are told to live, must get approval for whatever job they hold, must have money, must have a means of support, must move or change jobs if asked by the government, etc...

And yet their government has the audacity to print guides to help their own deadbeat citizens illegally cross the border into the US.  Hypocrisy at its finest.

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OfflineJT
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Seuss]
    #14443819 - 05/13/11 04:47 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Hm...so this is what I wrote last night. Fascinating.

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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: JT]
    #14444430 - 05/13/11 09:16 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

So, hey, Therian, vis-a-vis immigration issues ...

What's your take on the lifetime appointment of Sotomayor to the US Supreme Court?

Also, you never answered my question about your preference to win the Presidency in 2012.  I'm curious.

Thanks.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14444805 - 05/13/11 10:42 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Sotomayor is a racist, sexist slag who had the incredibly bad judgment to spend several years living with and almost married a baby mobster.


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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14445522 - 05/13/11 01:25 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

What is a "slag"?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14446620 - 05/13/11 05:07 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

> without the bloodsuckers at the top taking 90%

Actually, the vast majority of the bloodsuckers are at the bottom.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Seuss]
    #14446888 - 05/13/11 05:59 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
I have no problem promoting legal immigration as long as the same laws apply as Mexico has for their immigrants:

...

In Mexico, legal immigrants are not allowed to own land, are not allowed to hold office, must live where they are told to live, must get approval for whatever job they hold, must have money, must have a means of support, must move or change jobs if asked by the government, etc...





I can't say I'd support most of those things, for anyone, other than money/means of support, as is already required to legally immigrate.  As it is now, anyone can own land in the US.  Why should someone who lives in another country have more rights to own land in the US than someone who has immigrated legally?

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14447108 - 05/13/11 06:42 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

> I can't say I'd support most of those things,

Actually, I don't either.  My sarcasm runs away sometimes.  I just find the hypocrisy of some countries, such as Mexico, to be beyond belief.  My actual solution to the illegal alien 'problem' is two fold; 1) prosecute the companies/employers that hire illegal aliens (and provide a means for companies/employers to verify citizenship of their employees) and 2) for every illegal alien deported, make it easier for somebody that is patiently waiting in line to get into the country legally.  I also think they should do away with the citizenship if you were born here, even if you parents are not citizens, even if you never live here amendment.  I'd also like to see the US bill foreign countries, such as Mexico, for the cost of deporting their illegal aliens caught in the US.

(ok, so maybe that is four fold)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14452494 - 05/14/11 05:31 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:08 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #14452566 - 05/14/11 05:45 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
It's an inexplicable contradiction for the Tea Party types, accusing Hussein of socialism while they want to pass laws & use the coercive authority of the state to dictate how companies operate in contrast to what they would do in a free market (you know, what capitalism is supposed to be), & thus reign in the "invisible hand" that achieves the greatest economic efficiency. They're every bit as 'socialist' (based on their inaccurate use of the term) as are liberals/progressives, but in different ways/areas (e.g. xenophobic policies telling business owners how they must run their business, hard-line drug prohibition, wanting impunity to police & military for any & all violations including murder so long as they don’t like the victims, militarism & imperialism abroad)

This anti-capitalism/"socialist" sense of entitlement (not wanting the wage depression that would occur in a free market, that would maximize company profits) is exactly what they claim is "destroying America," but only when the shoe is on the other foot, of course. They can't have it both ways; either the government butting out of business & letting them maximize their profits is a good thing or it isn't. For Tea Party fascists, though, it's just a matter of what suits their bigoted/racist/xenophobic/ignorant views on a given subject... not any universal principle like is the case with true libertarians, who are the only ones in America who advocate actual capitalism.



This is a laugh riot. Some deranged screed that anything other than one world open borders is somehow anti-capitalist.  Maybe all companies should have to hire everybody who applies for a job?  Word to EP, most of the foreign applicants for the position of American worker are unqualified.  They wouldn't even have job openings if we weren't already a welfare state with millions of natural born Americans thinking that sweat is cancerous and toil beneath them.  By the way, drug prohibition and trans fat prohibition are socialist policies that can only be justified by some notion of Kollektif good.


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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14452746 - 05/14/11 06:13 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

What is "kollektif"?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14454932 - 05/15/11 05:39 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
What is "kollektif"?




A quite humorous spelling of "collective".


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14456123 - 05/15/11 01:02 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:08 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #14456440 - 05/15/11 02:07 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

I do not believe in rewarding people who break the law.  There is no shortage of applicants who would come in legally to replace the deported cheats and criminals.  It would be nice if the federal government could run a proper legal immigration program.  Sadly they don't seem to be competent at that.  I have no problem completely gutting Immigration and Naturalization, fire everyone, and start over.  Transfer the responsibility for catching border jumping criminals to law enforcement agencies where they belong. 

There is nothing fascistic about maintaining a nation's borders.  Nor is there anything anti-liberty about maintaining a police force.  In fact the opposite is true.  Nor have I heard the left come out in favor of ending drug prohibitions.  In fact they want to impose even more prohibitions.

Government policies regarding business do not really impair their ability to make a profit as long as the policies are uniformly applied across the board.  The government does not do this.  What the government does is support favored actors in a social engineering experiment that does nothing but create a vast bureaucracy and increase costs.  Costs that the companies do not pay but which are passed on to consumers and serve to debilitate American companies' ability to compete abroad.

My position on drug prohibition has been repeated several times.  Any competent adult should be allowed to consume any substance he or she desires without the trheat of government interference.  They should also be left to die in the gutter when their behavior destroys them.  Unless some nice private charity feels like helping them.


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Offlinedshow
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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14456971 - 05/15/11 03:32 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

I voted to deport them. I am against the drug war.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: What should we do with illegal immigrants living in the US [Re: dshow]
    #14457094 - 05/15/11 03:55 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
I voted to deport them. I am against the drug war.



:thumbup:


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