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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Legend]
    #14429655 - 05/10/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ignorance cant be pleaded here! The Louis Slotin and Harry Daghnian accidents prove that they knew exactly what they was messing with right from the start!

But why build the things on a coastline in the first place???  A half mile inland or even 1/4 and this catastrophe wouldn't have taken place.  Of course the tremendous loss of life and suffering of the people living on the coast couldn't have been prevented and this is simply because humans expand and increase in numbers and live everywhere they possibly can... but FFS why put a reactor in a tsunami firing line range? like they did?

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14429764 - 05/10/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fantasticfungus said:
Ignorance cant be pleaded here! The Louis Slotin and Harry Daghnian accidents prove that they knew exactly what they was messing with right from the start!



Dude, those were criticality incidents in the 1940s when those gentlemen were manually assembling cores. What lessons was Japan supposed to draw from that? That fissile material can reach critical mass? That E=MC2 has huge potential? I guess they knew that.

Quote:

But why build the things on a coastline in the first place???



Ever tried cooling a nuclear reactor without a ready and huge water supply? There's your answer. Sea shores are the place of choice to build power plants, nuclear or regular.

Quote:

Of course the tremendous loss of life and suffering of the people living on the coast couldn't have been prevented and this is simply because humans expand and increase in numbers and live everywhere they possibly can... but FFS why put a reactor in a tsunami firing line range? like they did?



Why fly planes high up in the sky where they can tumble down? Why drive cars at speeds that kill when you crash? Why drink beer? Why have children? Why get up in the morning? Because the perceived benefits outweigh the perceived costs, that's why. It's fairly straightforward.

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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14429836 - 05/10/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I read you koraks and what you said reminds me of the Japanese ethik of "just in time".

With a bit of imagination we could add other ethics to it like 'just far enough or just near enough or or nearly enough or risk
ky enough or gambling enough'... and now see where its gotten us?

I ain't brave enough for this and I wish they would pack it in.

Or we could all stay in bed all day where its safe.

Edited by fantasticfungus (05/10/11 01:32 PM)

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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14430329 - 05/10/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you're so uncomfortable with their methods stop using their products, amass an army of like minded individuals and develop an authoritative entity that will oversee energy productions and developments worldwide.  Or just join the Department of Energy.

But like I said, if you don't like how something is produced stop using it.


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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Idiot]
    #14433139 - 05/11/11 02:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Idiot said
Quote:

If you're so uncomfortable with their methods stop using their products




Are you saying boycotting Japanese made products will force the Japanese to build their reactors in safer places? well it wont work, market forces are what got the reactors built right on the beach in the first place i.e. its cheaper to build them there.  Sometimes economics and market forces should take second place behind shear common sense.

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14433164 - 05/11/11 02:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

no i think he was saying if you don't like electricity don't use it, except you can't function in society without it.  I mean you pretty much can't get a job without a phone, and alot of phones have been switched over to digital which means they require electricity.

It might be possible to take electricity completely out of the equation but your most likely not going to be able to function very well because, society is based on it.  So therefor there's no real way to get rid of it by saying no to it in a practical sense.

Maybe if there weren't taxes, then you could just outright buy a farm oneday and use horse/buggy and say fuck it off the grid but there's a reason its so hard, because society doesn't want us to do that, they want us under there grasps.  They want the constint emptying of our pockets to fund all there stupid shit that makes them rich.


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Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14433277 - 05/11/11 03:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fantasticfungus said:
Sometimes economics and market forces should take second place behind shear common sense.



Essentially, I agree with you, although I do have some faith in the capitalist system. The problem with the free market mechanism is that it revolves around price: the price of a product or service is the primary criterion for comparison (given that the quality of products and services can be accurately described and communicated). Within the price of the product or service, the total costs of the inputs are assumed to be discounted. It is this assumption where we go wrong. For decades, we got away with this limitation, but the whole sustainability and corporate social responsibility movement (and related issues) have struck home that the total costs are rarely if ever fully discounted in the price of a product or service. For example, we still assume that whatever resources we extract from the earth, are essentially free, apart from the costs of extracting them. The price of such commodities does not include the cost of replenishing that resource. In some cases, that cost might actually be zero, but often, it isn't. Typically, the free market as it functions now, does not account for the full scope of indirect costs of inputs, resulting in artificially low prices. That is where the key to the solution lies: establishing realistic prices for products and services, and nurturing the awareness and acceptance of hidden costs with the general public.

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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14433847 - 05/11/11 08:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Strewth koraks you know your stuff m8, its a comprehensive explanation you gave, I think?

I dont trust capitalism or Communism or socialism, I think In reality these things are beyond our understanding.  They seem ab-it like chaos theory -where a butterfly flaps it wings somewhere and then an huricaine happens the other side of the world, or maybe some Japanese person sneezed and went down the shops to buy tissues and it resulted in a world wide economic bust or a boom or even an earthquake.

Now good old Eisenstein and Max plank and Schrodinger and all them lot they knew their stuff (and unlike economic theorists) they had equations to back it all up and prove it too.

Like I asked just now... why stick the reactors so close to the sea when they get these terrible quakes and tsunamis in Japan, I bet Einsteins curly hair would have stood up straight as pins on his head if he had known.

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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14433937 - 05/11/11 09:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I refuse to go back to the dark ages markaveli8x8 lol

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14433973 - 05/11/11 09:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fantasticfungus said:
Now good old Eisenstein and Max plank and Schrodinger and all them lot they knew their stuff (and unlike economic theorists) they had equations to back it all up and prove it too.



Then again, they had the advantage of 'only' having to find a consistent theoretical framework to describe the laws of nature. Human behavior and the inherent complexity of systems consisting of countless elements that interact in myriad ways such as the natural environment, the economy and society (which are coincidentally all part of a larger system, and therefore nothing more than more or less arbitrary demarcations of groups of elements and interactions) simply exceed our understanding. Economists act, out of sheer necessity, as if they can get away with drawing a line around a limited set of actors and behaviors and then extract theories of human behavior from that artificially limited system. In itself, that's not too bad, the problems arise when we start to treat those economic theories as guidelines or laws of nature, without being sufficiently aware of the limitations that are associated with them. It is when theory is transformed into dogma that the shit predictably hits the fan.

Quote:

Like I asked just now... why stick the reactors so close to the sea when they get these terrible quakes and tsunamis in Japan, I bet Einsteins curly hair would have stood up straight as pins on his head if he had known.



I have no idea about Einstein's stance towards the use of nuclear energy, but from my knowledge of him, he has always struck me as a theoretical genius, but not as someone with extraordinary capabilities (let alone knowledge) in the field of social science (which, strictly speaking, didn't really exist during most of his working life).

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OfflineMind Transcribing
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: dummy]
    #14434267 - 05/11/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dummy said:
why not flood it with cement?



Cement is porous, the radiation will actually go through.


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Offlinedummy
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Idiot]
    #14434575 - 05/11/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Idiot said:
.

But like I said, if you don't like how something is produced stop using it.



going off of this quote; most people would have to stop using most things. i study manufacturing and yet would still have to stop using most things, including the shroomery and many components integrated into my computer.


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People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.

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Offlinedummy
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Mind Transcribing]
    #14434589 - 05/11/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

but isn't that what they did in ukraine?

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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: dummy]
    #14438368 - 05/12/11 02:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

koraks said
Quote:

I have no idea about Einstein's stance towards the use of nuclear energy, but from my knowledge of him, he has always struck me as a theoretical genius, but not as someone with extraordinary capabilities (let alone knowledge) in the field of social science (which, strictly speaking, didn't really exist during most of his working life).





Yep he was the typical absent minded brilliant scientist, lacking somewhat in social ability's... he might have been dyslexic or something?  I read that he hadn't got the immense 'candle power' of some of his contemporaries too, but he had wisdom to go see Roosevelt to tell him to get the bomb before Hitler did.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14439128 - 05/12/11 08:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What's candle power? :confused:


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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: twighead]
    #14439379 - 05/12/11 09:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The amount of candles it would take to make a light of comparable brightness to a light source.  Lighthouses are measured by candle power, or used to be, I think its changing to lumens though.


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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Idiot]
    #14439514 - 05/12/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Its a term thats used to describe how bright someone is twighead.  I never saw it written down as a scale, I think its just metaphor.

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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14439665 - 05/12/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ahh, I was thinking cp.

I can see the metaphor though.  More power the more number of candles on your birthday cake.


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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Idiot]
    #14439758 - 05/12/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

cp equals brightness! its the same thing idiot :smile: personally I never experience the 'joke' of huge numbers of candles on my B-Day cake anymore? lol, it would burn my brows and lashes off lol, if they tried it on me again.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Idiot]
    #14439777 - 05/12/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Idiot said:
The amount of candles it would take to make a light of comparable brightness to a light source.  Lighthouses are measured by candle power, or used to be, I think its changing to lumens though.



Oh okay :lol: I figured that's what you meant but I wasn't sure. Hard to say how intelligent someone really is - but he certainly contributed much more (or atleast is given more credit) than most of his contemporaries.


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¿Check out some art m8?


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