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InvisiblePsilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics
    #14432851 - 05/11/11 12:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Something moderately infuriating happen in class today, and I thought I'd share it with you guys.

So in my Sociology class, we are discussing race, particularly Rodney King and the LA Riots and the OJ Simpson trial, but I'll get to that in a moment.  Beforehand, we were having a discussion about immigration, and about how complex the issue is.  We were talking about how illegal immigrants contribute to keeping produce prices low, and about how this would be affected by granting them a path to citizenship etc.  Anyhow, Mexico's situation came up, and we were talking about how Americans' desire for drugs fuels the cartels in Mexico, contributing to massacres and such.  At this point, I knew something bad was going to happen.  Most of the people in my class do some type of drug, but there are a few that don't and they always end up saying something ignorant about drugs.  This one girl started listing the drugs that come from Latin America through the Mexican-American border, and she started naming "Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, and oh, those mushrooms you guys love..."

At that point, I facepalmed for multiple reasons.  First of all, I didn't really appreciate her pointing out that we did mushrooms, even though lots of the class knows it and doesn't care.  Secondly, I had to point out the fact that mushrooms grow in so many places, and are so popularly grown in homes that it's silly to think that mushrooms are so popularly smuggled into the United States.  Marijuana isn't like mushrooms in that you don't see pot plants growing in the middle of California in the wild.  It's much more difficult to grow, and isn't grown independently nearly as often (that's not to say it isn't, but you get what I'm saying.  Mushrooms are so easily grown at home).  This concept was completely foreign to her, and she basically shrugged that fact off, continuing to believe that most mushrooms are smuggled in from Mexico.  The ignorance of some people!

That isn't even the worst of it.  We watched the video of Rodney King getting assaulted by police officers in 1992, and everybody was obviously shocked at the brutality.  She had to make the comment, though:  "Are those guys on acid, or what??"  Yes, the police officers were on acid, and that's what acid does to you:  makes you violently and irrationally abuse your power as a "defender" of the law.  Turns out there was speculation as to whether King himself was on PCP, as he resisted arrest in a very irrational and violent manner (he was extremely drunk, actually).  I just found it hilarious and depressing that people could be so misinformed about drugs.

A few days before this even happened, we were discussing hallucinogens, and she brought up the point that LSD was dangerous because it melted holes in your brain and stuff.  Being a common misconception, I patiently explained that there was no evidence of that, and that it simply isn't true.  She responded defensively, stubbornly believing that LSD does in fact melt holes in your brain.  She took it further, saying that people who take LSD essentially get stupider and crazier.  "Talk to anybody who's done acid for a few years, and you'll be able to tell the difference."  I acknowledged the possibility of triggering latent psychological disorders, but argued that this just wasn't the case.  LSD doesn't just make you stupider.  I explained some of the research I've done, explaining that there is no evidence of such happenings.  Then she said "oh, you're probably just reading stories of people who try acid and say its okay", to which I responded that I've been doing research from a much wider range of resources, and didn't just read reports of people who tried LSD once.  She just stubbornly decided that all of my resources were biased and from people who don't know what they're talking about.

This sort of stuff really pisses me off.  I mean, this girl is my friend, and she isn't a bad person, she's just really ignorant and stubborn in her beliefs about something that she doesn't know anything about.  I just thought I'd vent about it here, maybe inspire a good discussion on the matter.

What do you guys think?  Run into many of these people who think they know everything about drugs?

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Invisiblechooken
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14432905 - 05/11/11 12:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I find that with people like that, if they don't want to listen, I won't preach


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: chooken]
    #14432917 - 05/11/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

its better not to have people like that in your life...willful ignorance, is the worst kind.

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Offlinetizjack
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14432926 - 05/11/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Unfortunately most of the young generation, and old have grown up watching anti-drug PSA ads on television. It's all they know, and to simply change their whole view on a taboo topic such as drugs isn't very easy. It's like saying that the moon isn't really there, and that everything you have ever heard, read or seen about the moon is fake.

It's interesting though, when i was in school, i think in year 9 (Australia), i had to do a presentation about the effects of marijuana. Now, everyone in my class just copy and pasted information from the government drug information website, but i took it that little further and did extensive research, as i didn't really understand WHY marijuana was "bad". My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.

The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life. I think if you keep showing her that the truth it right at her fingertips, then maybe you can get through to her.


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InvisiblePsilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack]
    #14432939 - 05/11/11 12:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
its better not to have people like that in your life...willful ignorance, is the worst kind.




People just don't want to be told that drugs may not be as bad as they think.  I'm not very good friends with her;  she's more of an acquaintance.  I know what you mean, though.  I like avoiding people who hate drugs for no reason, but sometimes the people you care about most are like this.  Most of the time, you can change their minds pretty easily.  Other times... well, it takes a bit more effort. I just find that the people that are the greatest friends with you will listen to what you have to say with an open mind.

Quote:

tizjack said:
Unfortunately most of the young generation, and old have grown up watching anti-drug PSA ads on television. It's all they know, and to simply change their whole view on a taboo topic such as drugs isn't very easy. It's like saying that the moon isn't really there, and that everything you have ever heard, read or seen about the moon is fake.

It's interesting though, when i was in school, i think in year 9 (Australia), i had to do a presentation about the effects of marijuana. Now, everyone in my class just copy and pasted information from the government drug information website, but i took it that little further and did extensive research, as i didn't really understand WHY marijuana was "bad". My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.

The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life. I think if you keep showing her that the truth it right at her fingertips, then maybe you can get through to her.




The first time I really thought twice about drugs was when one of my best friends started smoking weed.  It was at that time that I really began to consider the possibility that drugs may not be the devils we were told they are.

Eventually I asked him about it, and tried it with him.  Definitely not what I expected, having been raised anti-drug and been told about how bad it is.  I was underwhelmed because of that, but still really enjoyed the experience.  After reading more about mushrooms, I decided it was something I wanted to try.  It wasn't for quite a while after that I actually got to try them, and even after months of research, I couldn't have been prepared for what happened.  Good stuff :thumbup:

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Invisibledrr
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14433039 - 05/11/11 01:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

DSHSB

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OfflineSeriously_Spaced
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14433047 - 05/11/11 01:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosomniac said:
Something moderately infuriating happen in class today, and I thought I'd share it with you guys.

So in my Sociology class, we are discussing race, particularly Rodney King and the LA Riots and the OJ Simpson trial, but I'll get to that in a moment.  Beforehand, we were having a discussion about immigration, and about how complex the issue is.  We were talking about how illegal immigrants contribute to keeping produce prices low, and about how this would be affected by granting them a path to citizenship etc.  Anyhow, Mexico's situation came up, and we were talking about how Americans' desire for drugs fuels the cartels in Mexico, contributing to massacres and such.  At this point, I knew something bad was going to happen.  Most of the people in my class do some type of drug, but there are a few that don't and they always end up saying something ignorant about drugs.  This one girl started listing the drugs that come from Latin America through the Mexican-American border, and she started naming "Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, and oh, those mushrooms you guys love..."

At that point, I facepalmed for multiple reasons.  First of all, I didn't really appreciate her pointing out that we did mushrooms, even though lots of the class knows it and doesn't care.  Secondly, I had to point out the fact that mushrooms grow in so many places, and are so popularly grown in homes that it's silly to think that mushrooms are so popularly smuggled into the United States.  Marijuana isn't like mushrooms in that you don't see pot plants growing in the middle of California in the wild.  It's much more difficult to grow, and isn't grown independently nearly as often (that's not to say it isn't, but you get what I'm saying.  Mushrooms are so easily grown at home).  This concept was completely foreign to her, and she basically shrugged that fact off, continuing to believe that most mushrooms are smuggled in from Mexico.  The ignorance of some people!

That isn't even the worst of it.  We watched the video of Rodney King getting assaulted by police officers in 1992, and everybody was obviously shocked at the brutality.  She had to make the comment, though:  "Are those guys on acid, or what??"  Yes, the police officers were on acid, and that's what acid does to you:  makes you violently and irrationally abuse your power as a "defender" of the law.  Turns out there was speculation as to whether King himself was on PCP, as he resisted arrest in a very irrational and violent manner (he was extremely drunk, actually).  I just found it hilarious and depressing that people could be so misinformed about drugs.

A few days before this even happened, we were discussing hallucinogens, and she brought up the point that LSD was dangerous because it melted holes in your brain and stuff.  Being a common misconception, I patiently explained that there was no evidence of that, and that it simply isn't true.  She responded defensively, stubbornly believing that LSD does in fact melt holes in your brain.  She took it further, saying that people who take LSD essentially get stupider and crazier.  "Talk to anybody who's done acid for a few years, and you'll be able to tell the difference."  I acknowledged the possibility of triggering latent psychological disorders, but argued that this just wasn't the case.  LSD doesn't just make you stupider.  I explained some of the research I've done, explaining that there is no evidence of such happenings.  Then she said "oh, you're probably just reading stories of people who try acid and say its okay", to which I responded that I've been doing research from a much wider range of resources, and didn't just read reports of people who tried LSD once.  She just stubbornly decided that all of my resources were biased and from people who don't know what they're talking about.

This sort of stuff really pisses me off.  I mean, this girl is my friend, and she isn't a bad person, she's just really ignorant and stubborn in her beliefs about something that she doesn't know anything about.  I just thought I'd vent about it here, maybe inspire a good discussion on the matter.

What do you guys think?  Run into many of these people who think they know everything about drugs?




Alllll the time i try and prevent ignorance amongst friends but informing them however i know at least half the drug users i know personally do not know what the fuck they are talking about.Stigmas on drugs today are terrible and stupid for example i had some asshole the other day talking about how i smoke too much weed and im going to get lung cancer and some bullshit i said that theyre are recent studies about marijuana and that it suggests that marijuana use alone cannot cause lung cancer and he called me a stupid stoner.Websites like this helps inform people a little though


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All you need is love:heart:

I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?-John Lennon

I'm not going to change the way I look or the way I feel to conform to anything. I've always been a freak. So I've been a freak all my life and I have to live with that, you know. I'm one of those people.
-John Lennon

Life is like a dang old rubix cube you get one side right you mess up the other-Boomhauer
To do list-Ketamine:specialk:, Mushrooms:heart:,LSD:awecid::,Salvia:rocket:,DMT,DXM:crazy2:,Cocaine:rail2:,2c-e:pipesmoke:,Molly:rave:,E:heart:,MXE, 4-Aco-DMT, 25inbome:heart:,6-APB and    5-meo-dalt

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Offlinessblind
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Seriously_Spaced]
    #14433095 - 05/11/11 01:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I was literally just thinking about situations like that lol. I came to the conclusion that a non drug taking person would have a hard time understanding something as foreign to them and complex as hallucinogens.Then I came into your thread, and that story makes me believe that the ignorance is worse than I thought.


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InvisibleDawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack]
    #14433111 - 05/11/11 02:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tizjack said:
My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.

The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life.




:thumbup::thumbup:

I like this concept. I've always assumed that peoples ignorance was based on external sources. That the propaganda is simply better, more well presented than the way I can present the factual information to them. That's why I'm unable to sway peoples opinions.

I never considered that the source of their ignorance may not be external at all, but in fact internal. That people refuse to believe the truth because it threatens their own sense of security that that government has given them. If by accepting the truth about drugs they have to accept that the government doesn't have their best interests at heart then that would threaten their own sense of safety, so they simply don't do it. For peace of mind.

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InvisiblePsilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Dawks]
    #14433157 - 05/11/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
Quote:

tizjack said:
My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.

The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life.




:thumbup::thumbup:

I like this concept. I've always assumed that peoples ignorance was based on external sources. That the propaganda is simply better, more well presented than the way I can present the factual information to them. That's why I'm unable to sway peoples opinions.

I never considered that the source of their ignorance may not be external at all, but in fact internal. That people refuse to believe the truth because it threatens their own sense of security that that government has given them. If by accepting the truth about drugs they have to accept that the government doesn't have their best interests at heart then that would threaten their own sense of safety, so they simply don't do it. For peace of mind.




It's hard to get people to research things they think they know about.  It's a lot easier to just say drugs are bad than to go into the pros and cons of each drug, their dangers, and how to keep safe if you take them.  People really need to think for themselves on this.  The information is there, and conclusions should be made by the individual.  That's where propaganda really hits hard.  People get incorrect information and incorrect conclusions based on that information.  If people were just willing to take the time to understand these things, they might benefit from them.

I know I have preconceptions about drugs that I'm trying to break down.  Seems to me a lot of people start with drugs are bad, then they move onto "okay, weed isn't bad, but anything harder is", to "okay, weed and shrooms are okay, the natural drugs", and so on.  The further you move in, the more you realize that most drugs aren't as bad as they're made out to be.  There are still drugs I opt to avoid, but I don't think I know everything about them.  I know when I started my research on psychedelics, I thought mushrooms were much safer than LSD, but this isn't really the case.  The dangers are so very similar.  I feel like the more drugs you research, the more you realize exactly how much you've been misled.

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Offlinetizjack
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Dawks]
    #14433159 - 05/11/11 02:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
If by accepting the truth about drugs they have to accept that the government doesn't have their best interests at heart then that would threaten their own sense of safety, so they simply don't do it. For peace of mind.




Couldn't of said it better myself. It all comes down to personal security. admitting you were lied to is abolishing all trust in authority. Much easier to filter it out, so sit back and enjoy the mind numbing television that has consumed your reality.

And so i leave you with this:
[url=
are free - Bill Hicks[/url]


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Invisibledrr
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack]
    #14433200 - 05/11/11 02:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I used to go crazy hearing all of the total nonsense about drugs. Its just not worth it to argue with people. This is one of those subjects that people like to get really defensive in, on both sides. You live a few more years and then you'll say, who the fuck cares? You aren't responsible for proper drug education and if you want to take on that role then you are going to have to get into some heavy arguments with people who are going to think that simply because you are arguing in a pro-drug voice, you are completely high and full of shit and your opinions are worthless. So there really is no use. In the end nobody will admit they are wrong. She will not listen to a word you say because she knows she is on the right side of the argument. So who cares. She'll be a fat old alcoholic single mother in ten years probably. You don't find the narcs and then try to convert them to the dark side. You just stay away from them so they don't narc on you.

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OfflineJohnny Springfield
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack] * 1
    #14433210 - 05/11/11 02:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The one that depresses me the most is that I know about a zillion people who won't think twice about stringing themselves out on meth or shooting any drug they can get their hands on into their veins, but they're absolutely scared shitless of ever trying LSD because they honestly believe that it does permanent damage to your brain.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Johnny Springfield]
    #14433431 - 05/11/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The general public usually lumps all illegal drugs together under the banner of addictive, destructive, and dangerous for the user and society.  To them the spectrum of safe and dangerous drugs is nonexistent.  But don't ridicule or hate them for that.  We have chosen a class of drugs that can be habit forming, can be destructive, and can be dangerous to the user and society, right?  Perhaps there is plenty of bullshit exaggeration going on with both sides. Maybe we are the biased ones too. Maybe we elevate our drugs of choice to ridiculously high levels, "Hey man, its medicine."  "Hey man, DNA was discovered with the help of LSD."  Yet we often overlook the numerous broken minds that are further damaged by these drugs.

There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.


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Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Offlinetizjack
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: joemolloy]
    #14433467 - 05/11/11 05:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.




I totally agree. Ignorance stems from both sides of the spectrum, that is why i when i talk about neurotransmitters, i will often give cautionary advice if any of my friends are interested in doing psychedelics. For example, i won't give my friends shrooms willingly if they are ignorant of the fact that it IS a mind altering substance in all aspects of the word, or if they just don't respect it at all. Because of this, people know me as the 'go-to' guy when it comes to psychedelics. Not sure if thats a good thing, but at least the information i give is realistic.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: joemolloy]
    #14433802 - 05/11/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.



Absolutely, but if some dumb cunt told me mushrooms are smuggled into the US via Mexico and that LSD burns holes into my brain and other hilarious unscientific bullshit and at the same time has the nerve to tell ME that all MY sources are biased while she obviously got her information from Reefer Madness, she could blow me. It's a real surprise she didn't bring up the whole LSD accumulates in your spine thing.
She's probably one of the retards that believe that all problems can be solved by praying to Jesus, too.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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OfflineHarryL
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: German Kahuna]
    #14433854 - 05/11/11 08:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Could you not challenge her, ask for her sources of information?

Say that you would be happy to read any peer reviewed paper she has that support her stance.

The concept of proof is on her part, such that she should have to show something happens,
Not you to show something doesnt.

I am assuming she is toting the party line,'which is sad in academia... But basically, if she is putting out false information, she needs to stop. It's one thing to have mr. Makey ssaying 'drugs are bad' or the government using propaganda, but academic freedom does not mean lack of responsibility, saying what you think is true as fact.


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Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.

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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: German Kahuna]
    #14433862 - 05/11/11 08:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

German Kahuna said:
She's probably one of the retards that believe that all problems can be solved by praying to Jesus, too.




:rofl2:

That comment just made my day, I could not agree more

ALSO

The book From Chocolate to Morphine is a great read for anyone who
has questions or mis conceptions about drugs. It goes into detail on
MANY different drugs, as well as many different aspects of those drugs.

I find it highly amusing that in our society marijuana, psychedelics
and other mind expanding drugs are looked down upon and demonized,
yet the people who are spreading the misinformation and propaganda
wake up in the morning, have a coffee, smoke a cigarette, go to work,
eat a chocolate bar, come home and drink a beer or other alcoholic
beverage and not even realize that they themselves are guilty of ingesting
many different powerful drugs throughout the day without a second
thought. Most users of recreational drugs(MOST) are more responsible
with their drug use then those who use "legal safe drugs".

As humans we all seek out different states of awareness, be it from
dancing, singing, having sex or ingesting a drug. I just love how
some people are so high up on there moral horse that they do not
realize that they themselves are users of many different drugs.

Regardless, the book linked below is a great read for those on this
side of the fence, as well as those who are grossly mis informed.

http://www.amazon.com/Chocolate-Morphine-Everything-About-Mind-Altering/dp/0618483799/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305124130&sr=1-1

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OfflinebRaInMeLtErS
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14434399 - 05/11/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

People are just afraid of things they dont understand.

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OfflineJimLahey
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: bRaInMeLtErS]
    #14434591 - 05/11/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm a sociology major and I had a girl in my class like that....All the drug users put her to shame though with pure science and logic, and our teacher was even agreeing with us (I sense that this girl has been sheltered her whole life). Being in the liberal arts college you should expect to have a lot more informed and non judgemental people, but there always seems to be some of these Tea Party people still get in to some of these classes and get offended by the fact there are so many liberals in these classes......even though were in the LIBERAL arts.


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