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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Afterlife [Re: g00ru]
#14425822 - 05/09/11 05:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Obviously we all die, but consciousness cannot experience its own non-existence, and death only exists from the perspective of the living.
I don't see the relevance of this, or how it even remotely suggests that consciousness is immortal. 
Quote:
guruu said: It proves that everything you know for sure is based in a context of consciousness existing. Nothing you know has anything to do with non being. Just because you know the brain itself is gonna stop working, that doesn't really comment on the true nature of consciousness, because for all we know consciousness is more fundamental to reality than all matter, including the brain.
It's quite clear that consciousness is generated by the brain..if a brain dies, then all of its processes (including the ones that are involved in the production of consciousness) stop functioning.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Afterlife [Re: Poid]
#14425844 - 05/09/11 05:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: I don't see the relevance of this, or how it even remotely suggests that consciousness is immortal. 
Really, you don't see the relevance of the fact that death only exists from the perspective of consciousness?
Really? 
Epistemology is not your strong point, is it?
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Afterlife [Re: Poid]
#14425881 - 05/09/11 05:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
guruu said: It proves that everything you know for sure is based in a context of consciousness existing. Nothing you know has anything to do with non being. Just because you know the brain itself is gonna stop working, that doesn't really comment on the true nature of consciousness, because for all we know consciousness is more fundamental to reality than all matter, including the brain.
It's quite clear that consciousness is generated by the brain..if a brain dies, then all of its processes (including the ones that are involved in the production of consciousness) stop functioning.
quite clear? sure, brains are necessary for the conscious human experience. but what is your evidence that consciousness is less fundamental to reality than the matter that is your brain?
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Afterlife [Re: g00ru]
#14426013 - 05/09/11 06:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
Poid said: I don't see the relevance of this, or how it even remotely suggests that consciousness is immortal. 
Really, you don't see the relevance of the fact that death only exists from the perspective of consciousness?
No, I don't see the relevance of this "fact" to your assertion that consciousness is immortal, it doesn't support it in any way.
The ability to make relevant arguments that actually support your assertions isn't your strong point, is it? 
Death very likely exists outside of the perspective of consciousness, I don't know where you get your "facts" from, or what my noticing the irrelevance of your "facts" to your assertion that consciousness is immortal has to do with my understanding (or lack thereof) of epistemology.
Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
guruu said: It proves that everything you know for sure is based in a context of consciousness existing. Nothing you know has anything to do with non being. Just because you know the brain itself is gonna stop working, that doesn't really comment on the true nature of consciousness, because for all we know consciousness is more fundamental to reality than all matter, including the brain.
It's quite clear that consciousness is generated by the brain..if a brain dies, then all of its processes (including the ones that are involved in the production of consciousness) stop functioning.
quite clear? sure, brains are necessary for the conscious human experience. but what is your evidence that consciousness is less fundamental to reality than the matter that is your brain?
What do you mean by "less fundamental to reality"? What is your evidence which suggests that it may be more "fundamental to reality" than the matter that is my brain?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (05/09/11 06:23 PM)
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Afterlife [Re: Poid]
#14426239 - 05/09/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:No, I don't see the relevance of this "fact" to your assertion that consciousness is immortal, it doesn't support it in any way.
The ability to make relevant arguments that actually support your assertions isn't your strong point, is it? 
Death very likely exists outside of the perspective of consciousness, I don't know where you get your "facts" from, or what my noticing the irrelevance of your "facts" to your assertion that consciousness is immortal has to do with my understanding (or lack thereof) of epistemology.
Okay, I guess I have to spell it out for you.
Dead things do not say "I am dead." Conscious things do say "I am alive, and that is dead." Consciousness is thus a precondition for the existence of death; as death is described as the extinction of "life," and "life" is a term coined by consciousness to describe itself.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Well thanks for clarifying..that's not at all what I thought you meant by death only existing in "the perspective of consciousness". 
Still, what relevance this has to your assertion that consciousness is immortal is entirely beyond me..perhaps you can spell that out for me as well?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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infectedstyle
Stranger
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 324
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: Afterlife [Re: Poid]
#14430775 - 05/10/11 04:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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so there is no death? :P
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,682
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life exists. consciousness exists. consciousness is really brain signals. like a painting existing on its own, witnessing itself. nothing special.
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Vsnares.Zappa
bend over


Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,153
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: If there is no afterlife, then it is true that they will never be proven wrong, because they will not know that there was no afterlife.
However, that doesn't mean they'll experience an afterlife, it just means that they won't know they were wrong. 
Their belief grants them immortality only as long as they're alive. 

  !
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