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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD


Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: ]
#1444375 - 04/09/03 07:53 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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And where you draw the line is the only correct standard? I was planning on growing mushrooms. Now that you moved next to me I won't. Should I give up smoking too?
You compare smoking, mushrooms, to basic human rights, and to be free from a horrible dictator? Smoking is not against the law, why would I care if you smoke? If I see you beating a woman I won't run to my phone or wait for someone to help, I go and pull you off of the woman.
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Sounds innocent enough. But remember, there is no worse tyrant than the one who feels he is doing good.
So liberating the people of North Korea is not a good thing? The south certainly feels strongly that the North's regime has to go, yet they are as many hesitant about war since they still have it fresh in their memory.
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Sure it is a domestic dispute. The problems are those which exist within the borders of the country.
So if we use the analogy of 'neighbours' and you knew I was murdering people in my house, torturing and killing people in my back yard, you would respect my right to do what I want in my house? Or what if I was building huge bombs in my house and kept throwing empty bomb containers over your house as a way of showing you not to mess with me.
There is no denying why N. Korea is building nuclear weapons, this is not a regime whom fears a war, they are so prepared for it I think in a sick sense many are eager in their delusions to go to war.
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1. No, I would appeal to a higher authority (police) and not take the law into my own hands. Similarly I would not interfere with an abortionist even though I think he is murdering babies. In this instance there is no "higher authority".
2. Same answer as 1., I would alert the higher authority on behalf of the man. The United States isn't a higher authority.
So you would allow the man to beat this woman until the police show up? Well I'm glad your not in my neighbourhood I see someone in trouble, I help, and I'd expect the same from my fellow man.
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Sorry about this but argumentum ad populam, appeal to the masses. I really don't care what a group of people thinks about any issue. I make up my own mind on what is and isn't right action based on careful, deliberate, thoughtful analysis of the facts.
Good, thats what everyone should do, learn the facts and make up their own mind. Now having said that and assuming you have read up on N. Korea; do you see any solution to the present danger that country inflicts on its region and to what they are doing in their own country to its people.
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Thor, you know me. You know I care deeply. But I will not interfere with someone else's right to stand up for themsleves OR insist on protecting those not under my charge.
And as I said, I really appreciate how much you care.
I do appreciate your big heart as well MM 
But I see this differently than you, I don't think we could agree on a situation like this because we feel fundimentally different about what I'd call human responsibilities.
I just hope that a future nuclear war with N. Korea is avoided, and that we don't see millions more die in vain in that country.
To the comments earlier about Africa and the starving there; I think we do not do nearly enough there either to help those people.
I have to ask one thing that seems to be a sentiment with people here against war..
Iraq invaded Kuwait and you people supported the war then right? I'm assuming you did as well, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Now the argument seems to be that war should only happen in case of self defense. After WWI that was certainly the belief and even after hitler invaded Austria,etc he was still allowed to because people hoped appeasement was a way to avoid war.
Well in North Korea's case they are building nuclear weapons, and have an immense military of which they continue to build. Are we to assume they are never going to do anything with their military and never use those nuclear weapons?
Are will still this naive after all of history's lessons on dealing with militaristic dictatorship nations?
If we don't deal with N. Korea now, then we will have to deal with them later and the consequences then will be 100 times worse than today.
We don't learn from history, we are seemingly stuck on repeating the same mistakes over and over.
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
#1444524 - 04/09/03 08:28 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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We don't learn from history, we are seemingly stuck on repeating the same mistakes over and over.
Some of us think that by waging preemptive war on a nation we are making the same mistakes that Hitler did. Perhaps in a slightly lesser degree but with alot more powerful toys. This country has absolutely no concept of foreign relations and it really bully's alot of the world. I mean, think about it.. France did not support the war, over half of its population was opposed and the country was united. If the United States could perhaps try to stop shitting in other people's sand boxes and instead spend some time facing the issues here at home and really taking a look at what we have done to our foreign relations. Then, we need to start quietly fixing it while we build our economy back up-- regardless of who's fault it was, a good leader will try to fix it instead of pointing fingers and going on a rampage that is going on cost us billions that the iraqi oil cant cover. Im not just heaping the blame upon this president or any other, nor upon one single person... but on our elected officials and ultimately, we the people. Perhaps we should try walking again instead of stomping angrilyy across the small small world.
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Edited by PsiloKitten (04/09/03 08:34 PM)
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Murex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1444537 - 04/09/03 08:33 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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If everyone is a room is against you, does that make you wrong?
-------------------- What if everything around you Isn't quite as it seems? What if all the world you think you know, Is an elaborate dream? And if you look at your reflection, Is it all you want it to be?
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Anonymous
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
#1444550 - 04/09/03 08:36 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Last reply and then I agree to disagree.
I have gotten between a man and his wife. Have you? It never turned out the way I wanted to and I was blamed.
This is also the problem of America interfering. We get blamed.
If I saw you beating your wife I might call the police. How do I know what the circumstances were? As a rule I try to stay out of my neighbors affairs.
Your argument makes the US the police of the world. I couldn't disagree more. People have a right to be free and believe me when I say my heart bleeds for them. But I do not think we should interfere, period. For one thing I do not trust the US government. I think it is wicked, powerful, and dangerous.
There is this idea that we should go around the world spreading "democracy" and that that is a good thing. It is the way we combat the dreaded "Communism".
With all the crap going around and especially after 9/11 here is what I am up for:
1. Close the doors. No more immigrants of any kind. 2. Kick everyone out that is not a citizen. Then lock the doors. 3. Refuse to give any kind of aid to anyone. No money, no military aid, no supplies. 4. Build up our military strength so that if anyone is stupid enough to fuck with us we blast them into oblivion.
My thinking on all of this is in evolution. I have changed my mind in several ways since 9/11. Which wars do I now think we should have been involved in?
1. The Revolutionary War. 2. The War of Northern Aggression if I was a Southerner. 3. WW II after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.
And again I have to tell you what a great guy you are. Even though we disagree I really enjoy talking with you. You will always be "My Captain". 
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Murex]
#1444556 - 04/09/03 08:38 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Heh, I guess it just makes you a unique human being! ...Trying in whatever ways that you have been equipped with to make some sense of this sometimes ... Code:
wild, wacky, beautiful, evil, muting, changing...
revulsing and pulsing world. Edited for some note at inflection because people on message boards never seem to have any imagination anymore!
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Edited by PsiloKitten (04/09/03 08:57 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1444582 - 04/09/03 08:44 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sister, you said a mouthful!
Cheers,
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Murex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1444610 - 04/09/03 08:55 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- What if everything around you Isn't quite as it seems? What if all the world you think you know, Is an elaborate dream? And if you look at your reflection, Is it all you want it to be?
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Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: ]
#1444615 - 04/09/03 08:57 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
1. Close the doors. No more immigrants of any kind. 2. Kick everyone out that is not a citizen. Then lock the doors. 3. Refuse to give any kind of aid to anyone. No money, no military aid, no supplies. 4. Build up our military strength so that if anyone is stupid enough to fuck with us we blast them into oblivion.
I agree with most of this but, my wife is not a citizen (well, not of the U.S. anyway).
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Murex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Evolving]
#1444628 - 04/09/03 09:02 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Did you purchase a Russian wife?
-------------------- What if everything around you Isn't quite as it seems? What if all the world you think you know, Is an elaborate dream? And if you look at your reflection, Is it all you want it to be?
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Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Murex]
#1444662 - 04/09/03 09:13 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Did you purchase a Russian wife?
No, my wife is Dutch. I did not purchase her, I won her heart. However, knowing American women as I do, I do not think that sponsoring a Russian woman to be a wife would be a bad thing.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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infidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
#1444716 - 04/09/03 09:30 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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What makes you think that N. Korea will become the next Nazi Germany? Has N. Korea ever attacked anyone (besides S. Korea)? Do you know the history of the Korean Peninsula? it doesn't sound that way.
What you are proposing is that we kill a few million people in order to save a few million people.
I sincerely hope nobody in Washington is thinking like this.
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: infidelGOD]
#1444745 - 04/09/03 09:38 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Too bad that they are.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 1 hour, 28 minutes
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
#1444749 - 04/09/03 09:39 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think we're going to have a chance to make a pre-emptive strike. I think S. Korea is about to do something really stupid, and then they're going to get kicked in the ass so hard they shit out of their eye sockets. Till then I say we provoke the shit out of them. Edit: Err... North Korea that is.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
Edited by Baby_Hitler (04/09/03 11:26 PM)
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infidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1444756 - 04/09/03 09:40 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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bunch of amateurs with big ideas
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: infidelGOD]
#1444780 - 04/09/03 09:49 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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But it's all playing out like a movie script.
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Murex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1444787 - 04/09/03 09:51 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Too bad that they are.
How do you know? Can you read minds?
-------------------- What if everything around you Isn't quite as it seems? What if all the world you think you know, Is an elaborate dream? And if you look at your reflection, Is it all you want it to be?
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Murex]
#1444820 - 04/09/03 10:00 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont need to read minds, they have said it. Themselves! ..... and the world is listening. Even though Americans arent getting it all.. the world is. Do you know that Bush issued a warning to Syria in his speech in Belfast? No, because the media isnt reporting it. This administration is a tribunal of war criminals recycled from all the bungling losers in the upper echelons that murphy's law let through. Wake up, my friend.
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Edited by PsiloKitten (04/09/03 10:06 PM)
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z@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1444843 - 04/09/03 10:06 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you know that Bush issued a warning to Syria in his speech in Belfast? No, because the media isnt reporting it.
I saw it on fox news. Nice try at showing how biased the media is supposed to be though.
-------------------- "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
Edited by z@z.com (04/09/03 10:06 PM)
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: z@z.com]
#1444858 - 04/09/03 10:08 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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For longer then a few hours right after the speech was given.. so it didnt morph into a whole, the UN will play a role --
Odd. Faux News telling the truth, doubtful
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 17 days
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1444889 - 04/09/03 10:16 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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PsiloKitten writes:
Do you know that Bush issued a warning to Syria in his speech in Belfast? No, because the media isnt reporting it.
Incorrect. I saw it on all the websites I normally cruise, as well as the ones my wife prefers. I saw it on Reuters, MSNBC, NYTimes.com, Foxnews, CNN, and others.
pinky
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