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Anonymous

Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1443710 - 04/09/03 04:12 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, I have been involved like that too.  Unfortunately the statistics are that she didn't leave him. :frown:

These days I physically fight no one unless they touch me or mine.

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InvisibleThorA
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Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: ]
    #1443762 - 04/09/03 04:25 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Are you like my neighbor that interferes in my business? (how I run my household)



Well if you were beating your wife or doing something like that I'd be sure to 'interfere' in your business :wink:

Quote:

Don't you think it is rather presumptuous to declare what is good for someone else?



Well I'll take a stand anyday for stopping people for being killed for their beliefs, being murdered for dissent, being imprisoned for many years for minor crimes, people starving because their own government spends most of their money on their military on their own people.

These people don't have a choice, they have to do as they are told and yeah I do think it is the duty of democratic people of this world to help them to achieve democracy.

Quote:

What do we don't do?

Go over to their house with our own baseball bat to help them "sort it out".

Does that make sense?



No because this is not a domestic dispute, comparing a couple next door having problems to a country being run by a viscous dictator who murders hundreds of thousands and has an estimated 7 million people in starvation, YEAH, then I think its our duty to step in.

If you want to use that analogy let me ask you this? If you saw a man beating his wife would you step in to help her? If you saw a group of people beating up a guy in the street, would you not try to help or get help?

Everyone seems to feel what was done in WWII was justified and had to be done.. But now in the post cold war era we are all afraid to finish the mess of the end of WWII.

I think our curse as a world today is that we do not care enough for our fellow man. We are all so wrapped up in our own lives and our own world that we would rather not think about the attrocities and suffering that is occuring in many parts of the world.

If we are to have a hopefull future for all in the world, then we have to help those who can't help themselves.

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Anonymous

Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443823 - 04/09/03 04:46 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"Well if you were beating your wife or doing something like that I'd be sure to 'interfere' in your business"

And where you draw the line is the only correct standard?  I was planning on growing mushrooms.  Now that you moved next to me I won't.  Should I give up smoking too?

"Well I'll take a stand anyday for stopping people for being killed for their beliefs, being murdered for dissent, being imprisoned for many years for minor crimes, people starving because their own government spends most of their money on their military on their own people.

These people don't have a choice, they have to do as they are told and yeah I do think it is the duty of democratic people of this world to help them to achieve democracy."


Sounds innocent enough.  But remember, there is no worse tyrant than the one who feels he is doing good.

"No because this is not a domestic dispute, comparing a couple next door having problems to a country being run by a viscous dictator who murders hundreds of thousands and has an estimated 7 million people in starvation, YEAH, then I think its our duty to step in."

Sure it is a domestic dispute.  The problems are those which exist within the borders of the country.

"If you want to use that analogy let me ask you this? If you saw a man beating his wife would you step in to help her? If you saw a group of people beating up a guy in the street, would you not try to help or get help?"

1.  No, I would appeal to a higher authority (police) and not take the law into my own hands.  Similarly I would not interfere with an abortionist even though I think he is murdering babies.  In this instance there is no "higher authority".

2.  Same answer as 1., I would alert the higher authority on behalf of the man.  The United States isn't a higher authority.

"Everyone seems to feel what was done in WWII was justified and had to be done.. But now in the post cold war era we are all afraid to finish the mess of the end of WWII."

Sorry about this but argumentum ad populam, appeal to the masses.  I really don't care what a group of people thinks about any issue.  I make up my own mind on what is and isn't right action based on careful, deliberate, thoughtful analysis of the facts.

"I think our curse as a world today is that we do not care enough for our fellow man. We are all so wrapped up in our own lives and our own world that we would rather not think about the attrocities and suffering that is occuring in many parts of the world.

If we are to have a hopefull future for all in the world, then we have to help those who can't help themselves."


Thor, you know me.  You know I care deeply.  But I will not interfere with someone else's right to stand up for themsleves OR insist on protecting those not under my charge.

And as I said, I really appreciate how much you care. :smile: 

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InvisibleThorA
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Posts: 10,017
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: ]
    #1443833 - 04/09/03 04:50 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Listen to this and tell me we shouldn't do anything:

http://audio.stanleyfdn.org/mp3/cg0231-3.mp3

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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443840 - 04/09/03 04:51 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

being imprisoned for many years for minor crimes, people starving because their own government spends most of their money on their military instead of on their own people.



I thought you were talking about the U.S. for a second... :smirk:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

Edited by Rono (04/09/03 04:52 PM)

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: arabmobster]
    #1443843 - 04/09/03 04:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

america does need to mind their own fucking bussiness
they already own the middleasy except syria and iran



We dont own Turkey, In fact I suspect that the next big fight will be in Turkey.. The Media has covered Turkeys objections and lack of support for the war in Iraq and Turkey does not want the Kurds to have an independant nation of their own.

I get the feeling that the US had made some promises to the Kurds for their support and set up the entire Turkey thing so that after we take Iraq and Turkey begins fighting the Kurds we will have no choice but to take Turkey.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Anonymous

Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1443858 - 04/09/03 04:58 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

good thought, although i'm doubting we'll give the kurds their own state. they didnt do much in the war, compared to what the 'coalition' did..

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InvisibleThorA
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Loc: Iceland
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Rono]
    #1443862 - 04/09/03 05:00 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

We are getting off topic a bit here.

The one thing I've noticed mostly with the responses here is there isn't much of an answer to my question about "what would you do about North Korea" ... A few people said do nothing, but what about everyone else.

If war is such a bad idea, then what do we do about attrocities occuring in places like North Korea??

If you don't support war, what do you support in regards to North Korea?

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443878 - 04/09/03 05:10 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe we should try to educate the people. Give them some accurate information. Let them know that people aren't starving everywhere.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443894 - 04/09/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I would strive for peace without military intervention.

N Korea can have their nuclear program, hell well even destroy our own nuclear program and invite them to check things out un-escorted as a sign of good faith.. Nuclear energy is what they are going for anyway, not bombs... They feel that they have the right to technology which makes cheep abundant electricity and they do...

Hell, if they want to open up contracts with American firms, so be it. We could propably be a great help to them in developing nuclear power.

If you want to know what I would do... I would make weapons my last priority, I would make amends with all nations that weve pissed off and I would develope programs that would benefit the world..

I would also be responsible for allowing the US to fall into chaos and be destroyed by the enemy whoever they may be... But we will never know unless we give it a try.



--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Offlineflow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1443945 - 04/09/03 05:35 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nuclear energy is what they are going for anyway, not bombs...



thats a joke right?

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443984 - 04/09/03 05:47 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

My question to anyone who does not support removing this regime is how do you justify doing nothing while millions are dying in North Korea?

Because it would make Amerika look bad/worse (if Amerika would be involved).


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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InvisibleThorA
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
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Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1443997 - 04/09/03 05:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Good idea, but how do you go about that?

There are those in N. Korea who know how bad it is in their country, there are always people trying to flee the country. But none dare speak out against the government.

The problem is this regime controls the flow of information so tightly that people only see what the regime wants them to see, and they certainly wouldn't allow the people to learn of the outside world because that would cause great unstability within N. Korea.

Any attempts by the outside world to force education on the people through various means would be seen as an act of aggression.

N. Korea is not looking just for Nuclear power plants, they are looking to create nuclear weapons.

N. Korea is made up of brainwashed loyalists, imprisoned political prisoners, starving people who care only to survive and can't be bothered with politics.

Within the summers end its estimated that 7 million N. Koreans will be starving, this is an enormous problem and something must be done.

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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Murex]
    #1444003 - 04/09/03 05:54 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I've been repeating this but again let me say this would be the UN and the world against N. Korea.

The focus needs to shift on this problem, because it has the potential for a disaster in the near future.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
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Loc: Traped in a shell.
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1444022 - 04/09/03 06:02 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


I wouldn't do anything to N. Korea exept talk to them maybe. If anything, I would send in a few spies.

The Korea thing isn't like this Iraq situation- Just because we liberated Iraq from Saddam doesn't mean we will liberate Korea from whoeverthefukhisnameis.

Other countries have recently developed nuclear weapons and we didn't have to fight them. I really don't understand why we would fight a country that develops nukes. If we can have them, so can other countries- as long as they know we'll be watching them.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Anonymous

Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1444026 - 04/09/03 06:03 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Millions are starving and dying in africa, suffering from horrible afflictions. I've seen pictures of some of those people, its stomach churning.

Why dont we go help them, instead? We wont need to wage any war, just move in with food and aid.

Millions are dying in South Africa from hiv/aids..

There are probably half a billion poor, hungry, sick, helpless people. We cant help them all. We have to worry about our own.

It sucks, but life aint fair.

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: ]
    #1444121 - 04/09/03 06:45 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Good lord, now I know the end is indeed at hand.

Mr. Mushroom agreed with me.

Im friggin speechless.


--------------------

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Anonymous

Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1444272 - 04/09/03 07:27 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

:grin:

The likelihood that we would disagree on everything is remote.

Just as it is that we would agree on everything.

Or you could say that even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometime. :wink: (reference to self)

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Anonymous

Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1444276 - 04/09/03 07:29 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know what it was that you wanted me to listen to because it wouldn't play. Just know that appealling to pity with me never works, if it had anything to do with that.

Do you have a rebuttal to my former post to you?

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: ]
    #1444310 - 04/09/03 07:38 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Then I guess sometimes I feel like a nut, most times I dont.

:grin:


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