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InvisibleThorA
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North Korea - What would you do?
    #1443307 - 04/09/03 03:50 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I know there is certainly a growing problem with this country and their attempts to go nuclear.. But the question I have for you all is what would you do if you were Bush about the N. Korea crisis?

Do you try to forcefully remove that horrible regime? Do you use sanctions?

My opinion is probably evident, I would support forcefull removal of this regime, however if there was a better way I'd love to hear it since a war there would be a big mess to say the least.

How would you get rid of the 'great leader'?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443318 - 04/09/03 03:52 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I wouldn't get involved in the first place...It is not up to the U.S. or anybody else to dictate how a sovereign nation chooses to run itself. North Korea is not attacking anybody.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443320 - 04/09/03 03:53 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The people of North Korea are starving. The economy is in shambles. I believe that that country will soon fall from within.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443331 - 04/09/03 03:56 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Options for Dealing with North Korea

by Ted Galen Carpenter

Executive Summary

North Korea's recent actions in violation of the clear intent of the agreement it signed in 1994 to freeze its nuclear program have ignited a crisis in northeast Asia. Unfortunately, all of the frequently discussed options for dealing with this crisis have major drawbacks.

One option would be to pursue the same strategy embodied in the 1994 agreement: bribe North Korea to give up its nuclear ambitions. Given the failure of bribery in the past, however, there is little reason to assume that sweetening the bribe would induce Pyongyang to honor the commitments that it is already violating. A new round of cheating would be likely.

A second option would be to launch preemptive military strikes against North Korea's nuclear installations. But such a strategy would be profoundly dangerous. Military coercion could trigger a general war on the Korean peninsula. Indeed, if U.S. and Chinese intelligence sources are correct, North Korea may already possess a small number of nuclear weapons, which would make a U.S. preemptive strike especially risky.

A third option is to pressure North Korea to honor its commitments by imposing new economic sanctions. Since North Korea is already one of the most economically isolated countries in the world, however, sanctions are unlikely to dissuade Pyongyang from pursuing a nuclear weapons program.

Washington should consider another approach. It should inform North Korea that, unless it abandons its nuclear program, the United States will encourage South Korea and Japan to make their own decisions about also going nuclear. That prospect might well cause the North to reconsider and keep the region nonnuclear. Even if it does not do so, a nuclear balance of power in northeast Asia might emerge instead of a North Korean nuclear monopoly.

The crisis illustrates the folly of Washington's insistence on maintaining a military presence in East Asia. In a normal international system, North Korea's neighbors?South Korea, Japan, China, and Russia?would have to worry the most about Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions and would take the lead in formulating policies to deal with them.


Full Text


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1443334 - 04/09/03 03:57 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

N. Korea is not in any danger of an overthrow.

Children are tought from birth that the Great Leader is basically a god, and the amount of brainwashing in that country would make Hitler proud.

Rono, I'm not talking the US only, I think the whole world including China need to get involved with removing this regime. I know China is unlikely, but they would probably not stand in the way.

My question to anyone who does not support removing this regime is how do you justify doing nothing while millions are dying in North Korea?

So we sit idly by while that happens and do nothing but sanctions and diplomacy?


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443363 - 04/09/03 04:06 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Mind my own business-- that's what Id do


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1443368 - 04/09/03 04:10 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mind my own business-- that's what Id do 




Or pretend its not happening :smile:


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443378 - 04/09/03 04:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Oh if anyone gets a chance PBS had a great little documentary on a british journalist who visited North Korea and really opened a lot of eyes to what is happening there.

Interview with Ben Anderson - Versions of the Truth

The main page of that show here:

North Korea - Suspicious Minds


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OfflineStopThat
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1443379 - 04/09/03 04:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Left alone they will develop nukes to sell to the highest bidder.Just like they do with missles now.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443384 - 04/09/03 04:15 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Try and find a peaceful solution...cos at the end of the day you cant go around using violence to find peace and eventually someone will hit u hard.


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Always Smi2le


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Offlinegrib
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Rono]
    #1443388 - 04/09/03 04:16 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It is not up to the U.S. or anybody else to dictate how a sovereign nation chooses to run itself.




Well said!


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443396 - 04/09/03 04:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I dont need to pretend it isnt happening.. This is none of my business, nor this country's-- preemptive strikes were not the norm a month ago, lets try to remember that.

In that vein, you can stop pretending the united states agenda and foreign policy is for liberation from oppressive rulers.


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1443398 - 04/09/03 04:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

How do you find a peacefull solution with a militaristic dictatorship regime?

N. Korea threatens the whole region and the regime knows that the only way to keep power is to keep that 'tension' with outside neighbours so that the focus of the people is on the 'enemies' of the state and not their own horrific problems within the country.

Some stats on the human suffering in N. Korea, BTW there is reported to be millions in a gulag style prison in the North where death rates are huge:

Health/Humanitarian Crisis

North Korea had an infant mortality rate of 2 percent in 2000. (South Korea's infant mortality rate for that same year, by contrast, was 0.5 percent.)

More than 13 million North Koreans suffer from malnutrition, including 60 percent of all children -- the worst rate among 110 developing nations surveyed by the World Health Organization and UNICEF.

A famine lasting more than three years began in 1995 after a series of severe floods.

At a UNICEF conference in Beijing in May 2001, a North Korean official, Choe Su-hon, disclosed that 220,000 people had died of famine from 1995 to 1998. Western sources put famine casualties during the same period much higher, from 270,000 to 2 million.

Choe Su-hon also announced that during the height of the famine the average life expectancy fell by more than six years and the infant mortality rate climbed.

The effects of the famine were intensified by bad weather, a mismanaged agricultural sector and an economy crippled by the collapse of the Soviet Union. Economic sanctions were also a factor.

Roughly a third of North Koreans receive food aid, according to the United Nations.

The largest international aid agency operating in North Korea is the U.N.'s World Food Program. Since 1995, the WFP has delivered 2 million tons of food, worth $500 million."



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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: StopThat]
    #1443402 - 04/09/03 04:23 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Bravo! Maybe that will stop colonial invasions in the future. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. We have thousands of nukes--- what exactly makes us deserving of that distinction and nobody else?

Free trade, baby.


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1443404 - 04/09/03 04:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I dont need to pretend it isnt happening.. This is none of my business, nor this country's-- preemptive strikes were not the norm a month ago, lets try to remember that.

In that vein, you can stop pretending the united states agenda and foreign policy is for liberation from oppressive rulers.




The agenda is something I am not getting into since I think the end result is what we should be discussing.

North Korea is a clear and present danger to not only the West but especially to that region.

Should they be allowed to go nuclear? Do you think we should respond if N. Korea invaded its southern brothers?

Appeasement certainly did not work with Hitler, why should it work this time with N. Korea?

Do we not learn from history?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443408 - 04/09/03 04:26 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I suppose the question is whether we believe George Bush is a man who cares for the North Korean peoples welfare. Looking at the catastrophe currently happening in Afghanistan and his deep desire to abandon the country to his new pals the terrifying Northern Alliance warlords my guess is however bad the North Koreans have it now it's better than what Bush would do with it.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1443412 - 04/09/03 04:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bravo! Maybe that will stop colonial invasions in the future. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. We have thousands of nukes--- what exactly makes us deserving of that distinction and nobody else?

Free trade, baby.




So you think we should allow everyone to have nukes? This will make the world safer??

Kim Jong knows that his regime would fall if his people learned how they have been lied to and manipulated for all these decades. He knows that if he was backed in a corner that he would fight back with everything he has at his disposal.

Appeasing this regime is only delaying an inevitable future conflict that would likely invovle nuclear weapons and horrible casualty rates.

I can't believe the US focused on Iraq, because the real issue should have been and should be now N. Korea.


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OfflineStopThat
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443414 - 04/09/03 04:30 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

We dont sell nukes to the highest bidder


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1443416 - 04/09/03 04:31 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I suppose the question is whether we believe George Bush is a man who cares for the North Korean peoples welfare. Looking at the catastrophe currently happening in Afghanistan and his deep desire to abandon the country to his new pals the terrifying Northern Alliance warlords my guess is however bad the North Koreans have it now it's better than what Bush would do with it.




I don't think this situation is comparable. The South wants desperately to reunify with their brothers/sisters in the North. It would be like the fall of the Berlin Wall, Germans reunited and rebuilt their country. The aftermath of this war would be a united Korea that the world would of course help get back on its feet.

I think the UN needs to be an integral part of this action from start to finish, not just the US.


Edited by Thor (04/09/03 04:32 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: North Korea - What would you do? [Re: Thor]
    #1443417 - 04/09/03 04:31 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Ironically enough, the US took on Iraq because they knew it had no weapons of mass destruction. With N. Korea having the bomb it's very unlikely they'll try invading.


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