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Psilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
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Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics
#14432851 - 05/11/11 12:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Something moderately infuriating happen in class today, and I thought I'd share it with you guys.
So in my Sociology class, we are discussing race, particularly Rodney King and the LA Riots and the OJ Simpson trial, but I'll get to that in a moment. Beforehand, we were having a discussion about immigration, and about how complex the issue is. We were talking about how illegal immigrants contribute to keeping produce prices low, and about how this would be affected by granting them a path to citizenship etc. Anyhow, Mexico's situation came up, and we were talking about how Americans' desire for drugs fuels the cartels in Mexico, contributing to massacres and such. At this point, I knew something bad was going to happen. Most of the people in my class do some type of drug, but there are a few that don't and they always end up saying something ignorant about drugs. This one girl started listing the drugs that come from Latin America through the Mexican-American border, and she started naming "Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, and oh, those mushrooms you guys love..."
At that point, I facepalmed for multiple reasons. First of all, I didn't really appreciate her pointing out that we did mushrooms, even though lots of the class knows it and doesn't care. Secondly, I had to point out the fact that mushrooms grow in so many places, and are so popularly grown in homes that it's silly to think that mushrooms are so popularly smuggled into the United States. Marijuana isn't like mushrooms in that you don't see pot plants growing in the middle of California in the wild. It's much more difficult to grow, and isn't grown independently nearly as often (that's not to say it isn't, but you get what I'm saying. Mushrooms are so easily grown at home). This concept was completely foreign to her, and she basically shrugged that fact off, continuing to believe that most mushrooms are smuggled in from Mexico. The ignorance of some people!
That isn't even the worst of it. We watched the video of Rodney King getting assaulted by police officers in 1992, and everybody was obviously shocked at the brutality. She had to make the comment, though: "Are those guys on acid, or what??" Yes, the police officers were on acid, and that's what acid does to you: makes you violently and irrationally abuse your power as a "defender" of the law. Turns out there was speculation as to whether King himself was on PCP, as he resisted arrest in a very irrational and violent manner (he was extremely drunk, actually). I just found it hilarious and depressing that people could be so misinformed about drugs.
A few days before this even happened, we were discussing hallucinogens, and she brought up the point that LSD was dangerous because it melted holes in your brain and stuff. Being a common misconception, I patiently explained that there was no evidence of that, and that it simply isn't true. She responded defensively, stubbornly believing that LSD does in fact melt holes in your brain. She took it further, saying that people who take LSD essentially get stupider and crazier. "Talk to anybody who's done acid for a few years, and you'll be able to tell the difference." I acknowledged the possibility of triggering latent psychological disorders, but argued that this just wasn't the case. LSD doesn't just make you stupider. I explained some of the research I've done, explaining that there is no evidence of such happenings. Then she said "oh, you're probably just reading stories of people who try acid and say its okay", to which I responded that I've been doing research from a much wider range of resources, and didn't just read reports of people who tried LSD once. She just stubbornly decided that all of my resources were biased and from people who don't know what they're talking about.
This sort of stuff really pisses me off. I mean, this girl is my friend, and she isn't a bad person, she's just really ignorant and stubborn in her beliefs about something that she doesn't know anything about. I just thought I'd vent about it here, maybe inspire a good discussion on the matter.
What do you guys think? Run into many of these people who think they know everything about drugs?
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chooken
Between the Earth and Sky



Registered: 08/14/09
Posts: 2,009
Loc: Aus
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
#14432905 - 05/11/11 12:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I find that with people like that, if they don't want to listen, I won't preach
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thelivingfreekshow
Fuck You



Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2,043
Loc: Prifddinas, Gielinor
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: chooken]
#14432917 - 05/11/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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its better not to have people like that in your life...willful ignorance, is the worst kind.
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tizjack
Tizzy



Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 618
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
#14432926 - 05/11/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Unfortunately most of the young generation, and old have grown up watching anti-drug PSA ads on television. It's all they know, and to simply change their whole view on a taboo topic such as drugs isn't very easy. It's like saying that the moon isn't really there, and that everything you have ever heard, read or seen about the moon is fake.
It's interesting though, when i was in school, i think in year 9 (Australia), i had to do a presentation about the effects of marijuana. Now, everyone in my class just copy and pasted information from the government drug information website, but i took it that little further and did extensive research, as i didn't really understand WHY marijuana was "bad". My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.
The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life. I think if you keep showing her that the truth it right at her fingertips, then maybe you can get through to her.
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Psilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack]
#14432939 - 05/11/11 12:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
thelivingfreekshow said: its better not to have people like that in your life...willful ignorance, is the worst kind.
People just don't want to be told that drugs may not be as bad as they think. I'm not very good friends with her; she's more of an acquaintance. I know what you mean, though. I like avoiding people who hate drugs for no reason, but sometimes the people you care about most are like this. Most of the time, you can change their minds pretty easily. Other times... well, it takes a bit more effort. I just find that the people that are the greatest friends with you will listen to what you have to say with an open mind.
Quote:
tizjack said: Unfortunately most of the young generation, and old have grown up watching anti-drug PSA ads on television. It's all they know, and to simply change their whole view on a taboo topic such as drugs isn't very easy. It's like saying that the moon isn't really there, and that everything you have ever heard, read or seen about the moon is fake.
It's interesting though, when i was in school, i think in year 9 (Australia), i had to do a presentation about the effects of marijuana. Now, everyone in my class just copy and pasted information from the government drug information website, but i took it that little further and did extensive research, as i didn't really understand WHY marijuana was "bad". My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.
The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life. I think if you keep showing her that the truth it right at her fingertips, then maybe you can get through to her.
The first time I really thought twice about drugs was when one of my best friends started smoking weed. It was at that time that I really began to consider the possibility that drugs may not be the devils we were told they are.
Eventually I asked him about it, and tried it with him. Definitely not what I expected, having been raised anti-drug and been told about how bad it is. I was underwhelmed because of that, but still really enjoyed the experience. After reading more about mushrooms, I decided it was something I wanted to try. It wasn't for quite a while after that I actually got to try them, and even after months of research, I couldn't have been prepared for what happened. Good stuff
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
#14433039 - 05/11/11 01:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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DSHSB
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Seriously_Spaced
Psychedelic Lover



Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 2,124
Loc: California,United States ...
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
#14433047 - 05/11/11 01:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilosomniac said: Something moderately infuriating happen in class today, and I thought I'd share it with you guys.
So in my Sociology class, we are discussing race, particularly Rodney King and the LA Riots and the OJ Simpson trial, but I'll get to that in a moment. Beforehand, we were having a discussion about immigration, and about how complex the issue is. We were talking about how illegal immigrants contribute to keeping produce prices low, and about how this would be affected by granting them a path to citizenship etc. Anyhow, Mexico's situation came up, and we were talking about how Americans' desire for drugs fuels the cartels in Mexico, contributing to massacres and such. At this point, I knew something bad was going to happen. Most of the people in my class do some type of drug, but there are a few that don't and they always end up saying something ignorant about drugs. This one girl started listing the drugs that come from Latin America through the Mexican-American border, and she started naming "Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, and oh, those mushrooms you guys love..."
At that point, I facepalmed for multiple reasons. First of all, I didn't really appreciate her pointing out that we did mushrooms, even though lots of the class knows it and doesn't care. Secondly, I had to point out the fact that mushrooms grow in so many places, and are so popularly grown in homes that it's silly to think that mushrooms are so popularly smuggled into the United States. Marijuana isn't like mushrooms in that you don't see pot plants growing in the middle of California in the wild. It's much more difficult to grow, and isn't grown independently nearly as often (that's not to say it isn't, but you get what I'm saying. Mushrooms are so easily grown at home). This concept was completely foreign to her, and she basically shrugged that fact off, continuing to believe that most mushrooms are smuggled in from Mexico. The ignorance of some people!
That isn't even the worst of it. We watched the video of Rodney King getting assaulted by police officers in 1992, and everybody was obviously shocked at the brutality. She had to make the comment, though: "Are those guys on acid, or what??" Yes, the police officers were on acid, and that's what acid does to you: makes you violently and irrationally abuse your power as a "defender" of the law. Turns out there was speculation as to whether King himself was on PCP, as he resisted arrest in a very irrational and violent manner (he was extremely drunk, actually). I just found it hilarious and depressing that people could be so misinformed about drugs.
A few days before this even happened, we were discussing hallucinogens, and she brought up the point that LSD was dangerous because it melted holes in your brain and stuff. Being a common misconception, I patiently explained that there was no evidence of that, and that it simply isn't true. She responded defensively, stubbornly believing that LSD does in fact melt holes in your brain. She took it further, saying that people who take LSD essentially get stupider and crazier. "Talk to anybody who's done acid for a few years, and you'll be able to tell the difference." I acknowledged the possibility of triggering latent psychological disorders, but argued that this just wasn't the case. LSD doesn't just make you stupider. I explained some of the research I've done, explaining that there is no evidence of such happenings. Then she said "oh, you're probably just reading stories of people who try acid and say its okay", to which I responded that I've been doing research from a much wider range of resources, and didn't just read reports of people who tried LSD once. She just stubbornly decided that all of my resources were biased and from people who don't know what they're talking about.
This sort of stuff really pisses me off. I mean, this girl is my friend, and she isn't a bad person, she's just really ignorant and stubborn in her beliefs about something that she doesn't know anything about. I just thought I'd vent about it here, maybe inspire a good discussion on the matter.
What do you guys think? Run into many of these people who think they know everything about drugs?
Alllll the time i try and prevent ignorance amongst friends but informing them however i know at least half the drug users i know personally do not know what the fuck they are talking about.Stigmas on drugs today are terrible and stupid for example i had some asshole the other day talking about how i smoke too much weed and im going to get lung cancer and some bullshit i said that theyre are recent studies about marijuana and that it suggests that marijuana use alone cannot cause lung cancer and he called me a stupid stoner.Websites like this helps inform people a little though
-------------------- All you need is love I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?-John Lennon I'm not going to change the way I look or the way I feel to conform to anything. I've always been a freak. So I've been a freak all my life and I have to live with that, you know. I'm one of those people. -John Lennon Life is like a dang old rubix cube you get one side right you mess up the other-Boomhauer To do list-Ketamine , Mushrooms ,LSD :,Salvia ,DMT,DXM ,Cocaine ,2c-e ,Molly ,E ,MXE, 4-Aco-DMT, 25inbome ,6-APB and 5-meo-dalt
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ssblind



Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 199
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Seriously_Spaced]
#14433095 - 05/11/11 01:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was literally just thinking about situations like that lol. I came to the conclusion that a non drug taking person would have a hard time understanding something as foreign to them and complex as hallucinogens.Then I came into your thread, and that story makes me believe that the ignorance is worse than I thought.
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack]
#14433111 - 05/11/11 02:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
tizjack said: My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.
The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life.
 
I like this concept. I've always assumed that peoples ignorance was based on external sources. That the propaganda is simply better, more well presented than the way I can present the factual information to them. That's why I'm unable to sway peoples opinions.
I never considered that the source of their ignorance may not be external at all, but in fact internal. That people refuse to believe the truth because it threatens their own sense of security that that government has given them. If by accepting the truth about drugs they have to accept that the government doesn't have their best interests at heart then that would threaten their own sense of safety, so they simply don't do it. For peace of mind.
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Psilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Dawks]
#14433157 - 05/11/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dawks said:
Quote:
tizjack said: My research changed my whole perception of illegal drugs, as i was gaining unbiased knowledge, and i found it quite disturbing that everything i have ever believed in, everything the government, education and parents had told me were complete lies.
The point is, i thought myself to be generally open minded, so i accepted that i had been lied to. Your friend simply can't accept that she has been lied to for her whole life.
 
I like this concept. I've always assumed that peoples ignorance was based on external sources. That the propaganda is simply better, more well presented than the way I can present the factual information to them. That's why I'm unable to sway peoples opinions.
I never considered that the source of their ignorance may not be external at all, but in fact internal. That people refuse to believe the truth because it threatens their own sense of security that that government has given them. If by accepting the truth about drugs they have to accept that the government doesn't have their best interests at heart then that would threaten their own sense of safety, so they simply don't do it. For peace of mind.
It's hard to get people to research things they think they know about. It's a lot easier to just say drugs are bad than to go into the pros and cons of each drug, their dangers, and how to keep safe if you take them. People really need to think for themselves on this. The information is there, and conclusions should be made by the individual. That's where propaganda really hits hard. People get incorrect information and incorrect conclusions based on that information. If people were just willing to take the time to understand these things, they might benefit from them.
I know I have preconceptions about drugs that I'm trying to break down. Seems to me a lot of people start with drugs are bad, then they move onto "okay, weed isn't bad, but anything harder is", to "okay, weed and shrooms are okay, the natural drugs", and so on. The further you move in, the more you realize that most drugs aren't as bad as they're made out to be. There are still drugs I opt to avoid, but I don't think I know everything about them. I know when I started my research on psychedelics, I thought mushrooms were much safer than LSD, but this isn't really the case. The dangers are so very similar. I feel like the more drugs you research, the more you realize exactly how much you've been misled.
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tizjack
Tizzy



Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 618
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Dawks]
#14433159 - 05/11/11 02:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dawks said: If by accepting the truth about drugs they have to accept that the government doesn't have their best interests at heart then that would threaten their own sense of safety, so they simply don't do it. For peace of mind.
Couldn't of said it better myself. It all comes down to personal security. admitting you were lied to is abolishing all trust in authority. Much easier to filter it out, so sit back and enjoy the mind numbing television that has consumed your reality.
And so i leave you with this: [url=are free - Bill Hicks[/url]
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack]
#14433200 - 05/11/11 02:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I used to go crazy hearing all of the total nonsense about drugs. Its just not worth it to argue with people. This is one of those subjects that people like to get really defensive in, on both sides. You live a few more years and then you'll say, who the fuck cares? You aren't responsible for proper drug education and if you want to take on that role then you are going to have to get into some heavy arguments with people who are going to think that simply because you are arguing in a pro-drug voice, you are completely high and full of shit and your opinions are worthless. So there really is no use. In the end nobody will admit they are wrong. She will not listen to a word you say because she knows she is on the right side of the argument. So who cares. She'll be a fat old alcoholic single mother in ten years probably. You don't find the narcs and then try to convert them to the dark side. You just stay away from them so they don't narc on you.
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Johnny Springfield
Stranger



Registered: 08/29/10
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Loc: Southwest Missouri
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: tizjack] 1
#14433210 - 05/11/11 02:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The one that depresses me the most is that I know about a zillion people who won't think twice about stringing themselves out on meth or shooting any drug they can get their hands on into their veins, but they're absolutely scared shitless of ever trying LSD because they honestly believe that it does permanent damage to your brain.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Johnny Springfield]
#14433431 - 05/11/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The general public usually lumps all illegal drugs together under the banner of addictive, destructive, and dangerous for the user and society. To them the spectrum of safe and dangerous drugs is nonexistent. But don't ridicule or hate them for that. We have chosen a class of drugs that can be habit forming, can be destructive, and can be dangerous to the user and society, right? Perhaps there is plenty of bullshit exaggeration going on with both sides. Maybe we are the biased ones too. Maybe we elevate our drugs of choice to ridiculously high levels, "Hey man, its medicine." "Hey man, DNA was discovered with the help of LSD." Yet we often overlook the numerous broken minds that are further damaged by these drugs.
There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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tizjack
Tizzy



Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 618
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: joemolloy]
#14433467 - 05/11/11 05:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said: There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.
I totally agree. Ignorance stems from both sides of the spectrum, that is why i when i talk about neurotransmitters, i will often give cautionary advice if any of my friends are interested in doing psychedelics. For example, i won't give my friends shrooms willingly if they are ignorant of the fact that it IS a mind altering substance in all aspects of the word, or if they just don't respect it at all. Because of this, people know me as the 'go-to' guy when it comes to psychedelics. Not sure if thats a good thing, but at least the information i give is realistic.
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid



Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: joemolloy]
#14433802 - 05/11/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said: There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.
Absolutely, but if some dumb cunt told me mushrooms are smuggled into the US via Mexico and that LSD burns holes into my brain and other hilarious unscientific bullshit and at the same time has the nerve to tell ME that all MY sources are biased while she obviously got her information from Reefer Madness, she could blow me. It's a real surprise she didn't bring up the whole LSD accumulates in your spine thing. She's probably one of the retards that believe that all problems can be solved by praying to Jesus, too.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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HarryL
Squnä'am



Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 8,070
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: German Kahuna]
#14433854 - 05/11/11 08:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Could you not challenge her, ask for her sources of information?
Say that you would be happy to read any peer reviewed paper she has that support her stance.
The concept of proof is on her part, such that she should have to show something happens, Not you to show something doesnt.
I am assuming she is toting the party line,'which is sad in academia... But basically, if she is putting out false information, she needs to stop. It's one thing to have mr. Makey ssaying 'drugs are bad' or the government using propaganda, but academic freedom does not mean lack of responsibility, saying what you think is true as fact.
-------------------- Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: German Kahuna]
#14433862 - 05/11/11 08:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
German Kahuna said: She's probably one of the retards that believe that all problems can be solved by praying to Jesus, too.

That comment just made my day, I could not agree more
ALSO
The book From Chocolate to Morphine is a great read for anyone who has questions or mis conceptions about drugs. It goes into detail on MANY different drugs, as well as many different aspects of those drugs.
I find it highly amusing that in our society marijuana, psychedelics and other mind expanding drugs are looked down upon and demonized, yet the people who are spreading the misinformation and propaganda wake up in the morning, have a coffee, smoke a cigarette, go to work, eat a chocolate bar, come home and drink a beer or other alcoholic beverage and not even realize that they themselves are guilty of ingesting many different powerful drugs throughout the day without a second thought. Most users of recreational drugs(MOST) are more responsible with their drug use then those who use "legal safe drugs".
As humans we all seek out different states of awareness, be it from dancing, singing, having sex or ingesting a drug. I just love how some people are so high up on there moral horse that they do not realize that they themselves are users of many different drugs.
Regardless, the book linked below is a great read for those on this side of the fence, as well as those who are grossly mis informed.
http://www.amazon.com/Chocolate-Morphine-Everything-About-Mind-Altering/dp/0618483799/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305124130&sr=1-1
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bRaInMeLtErS
Stranger

Registered: 05/04/11
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#14434399 - 05/11/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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People are just afraid of things they dont understand.
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JimLahey
Trailer Park Supervisor



Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 2,322
Loc: Sunnyvale Trailer Park, C...
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: bRaInMeLtErS]
#14434591 - 05/11/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm a sociology major and I had a girl in my class like that....All the drug users put her to shame though with pure science and logic, and our teacher was even agreeing with us (I sense that this girl has been sheltered her whole life). Being in the liberal arts college you should expect to have a lot more informed and non judgemental people, but there always seems to be some of these Tea Party people still get in to some of these classes and get offended by the fact there are so many liberals in these classes......even though were in the LIBERAL arts.
-------------------- "Why don't you get a life, Rick? Why don't you go to community college like Julian here? Hey! I got a good idea! You could teach Living In A Car and Growing Dope 101"
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woutah
Royal A


Registered: 01/31/11
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: JimLahey]
#14434623 - 05/11/11 12:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You could be a smart troll diverting people to actual facts about daytuWATCHTHEFUCKOUTHTa
Or you could be 50 year black old man telling youngsters not to take g'damn dayturam with their lsds these days..
either way i took a toke for you and wrote this post because you gave me the chuckle of my life while tripping
--------------------
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HarryL
Squnä'am



Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 8,070
Loc: Washington State
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: JimLahey]
#14434777 - 05/11/11 12:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here are some peer reviewed papers... None have 'hole in brain' or any physiological damage... I am not defending chronic and excessive use... But she is not right in her arguments...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19040555 The pharmacology of lysergic acid diethylamide: a review. Passie T, Halpern JH, Stichtenoth DO, Emrich HM, Hintzen A. CNS Neurosci Ther. Â 2008 Winter;14(4):295-314. Quote: "LSD is physiologically well tolerated and psychological reactions can be controlled ..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8251869 Adverse consequences of lysergic acid diethylamide. Abraham HD, Aldridge AM. Addiction. 1993 Oct;88(10):1327-34. Quote: "Evidence does not support claims of genetic disorders arising from hallucinogens."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10080051 Do hallucinogens cause residual neuropsychological toxicity? Halpern JH, Pope HG Jr. Drug Alcohol Depend. 1999 Feb 1;53(3):247-56. Quote: "At present, the literature tentatively suggests that there are few, if any, long-term neuropsychological deficits attributable to hallucinogen use."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14761703 Hallucinogens. Nichols DE. Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Feb;101(2):131-81. Quote: "Hallucinogens (psychedelics) are psychoactive substances that powerfully alter perception, mood, and a host of cognitive processes. They are considered physiologically safe and do not produce dependence or addiction."
-------------------- Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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bdub
Drug Nerd


Registered: 10/12/10
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: HarryL]
#14434871 - 05/11/11 01:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I hate when things like that happen, but with people like that, they won't change their mind.
This reminds me of a time with my friends when I was in high school (not as serious, just kind of funny), when we were talking about some ridiculous scenario, and I was like "imagine what it would be like on acid," cuz i was really fascinated about lsd at the time and had yet to do it, and my friend responded, "meh, but can you imagine what it would be like on LSD???" I just facepalmed that and explained to him that they were the same exact thing, and he was like "I'm pretty sure they're different." I just let that one go until he figured it out by himself.
-------------------- Drug to do list:
Marijuana, LSA, Alcohol, Psilocybin, Salvia, LSD, Methylone, MDMA, MDA, 4-AcO-DMT, 2C-E, 2C-I, 25C-NBOMe, 6-APB, 4-FA, 2C-B, 5-MeO-MiPT, MXE, DOC, Mescaline, n,n-DMT, DiPT (yeah, that's right, DiPT)
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gabbaganchi
version 4.3



Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 590
Loc: Great Plains
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: bdub]
#14435177 - 05/11/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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i think people are scared of LSD because it's called "acid." oooooh, it must burn holes in shit! even people who don't take ANY substance are still high on drugs. the brain is made of neurons and drugs.
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Psilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: joemolloy]
#14435931 - 05/11/11 05:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said: The general public usually lumps all illegal drugs together under the banner of addictive, destructive, and dangerous for the user and society. To them the spectrum of safe and dangerous drugs is nonexistent. But don't ridicule or hate them for that. We have chosen a class of drugs that can be habit forming, can be destructive, and can be dangerous to the user and society, right? Perhaps there is plenty of bullshit exaggeration going on with both sides. Maybe we are the biased ones too. Maybe we elevate our drugs of choice to ridiculously high levels, "Hey man, its medicine." "Hey man, DNA was discovered with the help of LSD." Yet we often overlook the numerous broken minds that are further damaged by these drugs.
There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.
I definitely see what you're saying. There's as much pro drug propaganda as anti-drug propaganda. The thing is that people tend to, like you said, lump all drugs together into the category of dangerous under all circumstances. Not all drugs are dangerous to the same degree, and some of them are arguably harmless. What irks me about it is that people assume that all drugs are bad in all circumstances, and that just isn't fair. I mean, I would argue that somebody who uses psychedelics occasionally, doesn't let it consume their lives, and remains a sane person, for example, has it under control. I think in many aspects, psychedelics are easier to keep in check than, say, heroin, or other physically addictive substances. It's unfair to put marijuana and heroin on the same level of "illegal drug".
I always analyze my beliefs and judge myself as harshly as I would judge others. That's part of why I always love hearing from you. You always have something to say that makes people think about themselves critically, rather than just saying "yeah, mean, fuck the government, everything should be legal". I can appreciate differing viewpoints, and I would argue that we have reasonably similar viewpoints on this matter. The difference would be that you have loads more experience than I do.
The problem I have is that she made claims about things she clearly didn't know much about. It would be different if she had argued that psychedelic drugs could, for example, diminish your motivation to be successful. If she had approached it in a respectful and reasonable way, and she had argued something that could actually be argued, things would be different. Instead, she was making statements that were false, and completely disregarding my sources, even though she didn't know what those sources were. She wrote off my claims as bullshit simply because I was arguing that maybe LSD doesn't physically destroy your brain. It's completely unfair.
Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Quote:
joemolloy said: There may be plenty of ignorant bullshit coming from that classroom, but judge yourself just as harshly if you want to be fair.
Absolutely, but if some dumb cunt told me mushrooms are smuggled into the US via Mexico and that LSD burns holes into my brain and other hilarious unscientific bullshit and at the same time has the nerve to tell ME that all MY sources are biased while she obviously got her information from Reefer Madness, she could blow me. It's a real surprise she didn't bring up the whole LSD accumulates in your spine thing. She's probably one of the retards that believe that all problems can be solved by praying to Jesus, too.
See, she's pretty level headed when it comes to most things. Some people are just raised so violently anti-drug that the possibility that some of the things they've been raised upon are wrong. It really surprised me that she was so adamant in her beliefs about something she really didn't know much about. That, and like you said, writing off my sources as nonsense was extremely disrespectful because she didn't even know where I had gotten my information, and she didn't provide any evidence to her claim.
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PoisonCrazy
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/10
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
#14436213 - 05/11/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sorry to hear it vgreg. On the plus side, it doesn't hurt anything. She is probably no more or less rabidly anti drug than before. And that's why I do it, that's why I explain it to people, because most of the time there is nothing to be lost, and much to be gained. There are exceptions, I have to be real careful around family and younger people, because I don't want to give them the wrong impression. But I have shown some people the light, slightly, and I think it's the only way this drug war will end. person to person. And maybe we'll still lose, but I will know I tried.
And     for you
Edited by PoisonCrazy (05/11/11 06:14 PM)
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Love2trip



Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 435
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: PoisonCrazy]
#14436304 - 05/11/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's a shame what 60 years of government propaganda did, does, and is doing to these young people and there parents and grandparents. I love how all of them are on prescrition drugs for mental illnesses and shit. You wanta talk about fucked up drugs look at the antidepressants there putting are children on. Or the adderral which is worse then cocaine after years of daily use and having to increase the dosage. Really makes me shed tears when i think about how fucked this world is.
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Alexander1138
Stranger


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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Love2trip]
#14436844 - 05/11/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Love2trip said: You wanta talk about fucked up drugs look at the antidepressants there putting are children on. Or the adderral which is worse then cocaine after years of daily use and having to increase the dosage. Really makes me shed tears when i think about how fucked this world is.
Exactly
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Anthony917
why dont we do it in the road



Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 3,243
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Psilosomniac]
#14437113 - 05/11/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I know, there's so much disinformation out there....
people hear a story, and since they aren't smart enough (or not interested enough) to do any research, they accept what they hear as fact. Besides, when it gets reinforced over and over again, they are going to believe it.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it"

It's easy to do some research on the internet and find quality information on all drugs...I don't see how people can still believe some of this crap
-------------------- Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17 Trippin? Click Me
What is life? I'm tired of life...
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JimLahey
Trailer Park Supervisor



Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 2,322
Loc: Sunnyvale Trailer Park, C...
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: woutah]
#14437640 - 05/11/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
woutah said: You could be a smart troll diverting people to actual facts about daytuWATCHTHEFUCKOUTHTa
Or you could be 50 year black old man telling youngsters not to take g'damn dayturam with their lsds these days..
either way i took a toke for you and wrote this post because you gave me the chuckle of my life while tripping
Dude is trippin face
-------------------- "Why don't you get a life, Rick? Why don't you go to community college like Julian here? Hey! I got a good idea! You could teach Living In A Car and Growing Dope 101"
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skiddy
RockStar


Registered: 03/25/11
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: Seriously_Spaced]
#14438072 - 05/12/11 12:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Really dude? Seriously spaced You think marijuana alone cannot cause cancer? Smoking isn't healthy at all I smoke weed don't get me wrong but common dude use ur head. If you use common sense any rational person would agree smoking weed while definitely no where near dangerous when used responsibley, but ist healthy and probably could cause cancer but we will never know because you can't conduct a cause and effect study for it.
-------------------- PESH : Pinning Transeski : colonizing Orrisa : colonizing Mex a : colonizing You're not a mycologist just because you grow mushrooms.
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GoddessOfLove
Mother Monster


Registered: 01/10/10
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: skiddy]
#14438552 - 05/12/11 03:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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For a little story :
A week ago i met a friend that only smoke weed and was very afraid of Psychedelic saying that it's dommaged the brain, and make you stupid and stuff. He also said that you can being schizo and the trip will never end. Anyway i met him a weekend and i ask him if he want to try a smooth psychedelic (4-ho-met), he was very hesitating but still drop the caps ! When he was feeling the molecule he told me : Oooooh man, now i understand what you said, damn that's amazing, i can't describe it myself ! Saturday he really loves it that he tripped again, now he wants to try 2C-D, 4-HO-MIPT, LSD and Shrooms :P
--------------------
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: GoddessOfLove]
#14439700 - 05/12/11 11:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
HofmannBlotter said: For a little story :
A week ago i met a friend that only smoke weed and was very afraid of Psychedelic saying that it's dommaged the brain, and make you stupid and stuff. He also said that you can being schizo and the trip will never end. Anyway i met him a weekend and i ask him if he want to try a smooth psychedelic (4-ho-met), he was very hesitating but still drop the caps ! When he was feeling the molecule he told me : Oooooh man, now i understand what you said, damn that's amazing, i can't describe it myself ! Saturday he really loves it that he tripped again, now he wants to try 2C-D, 4-HO-MIPT, LSD and Shrooms :P
Finally decided to think for himself huh?
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: drr]
#14440030 - 05/12/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
drr said:
Quote:
HofmannBlotter said: For a little story :
A week ago i met a friend that only smoke weed and was very afraid of Psychedelic saying that it's dommaged the brain, and make you stupid and stuff. He also said that you can being schizo and the trip will never end. Anyway i met him a weekend and i ask him if he want to try a smooth psychedelic (4-ho-met), he was very hesitating but still drop the caps ! When he was feeling the molecule he told me : Oooooh man, now i understand what you said, damn that's amazing, i can't describe it myself ! Saturday he really loves it that he tripped again, now he wants to try 2C-D, 4-HO-MIPT, LSD and Shrooms :P
Finally decided to think for himself huh?
i dont know if caving to your friends pressure to try psychedelics is "thinking for himself" o.o
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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maug



Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,703
Loc: inside you
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Re: Ignorant people thinking they know everything about psychedelics [Re: drr]
#14440063 - 05/12/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just a tip: You can turn people on to pot and acid without ever mentioning that you do it. I don't tell people that I do drugs, I tell people that I read about drugs. There's always going to be these friends of friends, and I find it's best never to let them get close. Ever.
There's also the people who know some things about psychedelics, that thing they know a lot. I know I'm always learning, so I try not to be like that. Hence, my sig. "I may give bad advice" But I do like turning people on to this kind of stuff though, and generally there's usually 2 speeches I give (not professionally). Shamanism, and neurotransmitters. By now, these are pretty much scripted.
Shamanism: Shamanism isn't anything alien or obscure. It's not a precursor to religion either. It's simply how religions were practiced in every region of the world until a few hundred years ago. If they didn't have psychedelics, then they would have ordeals and ordeal poisons. This isn't tradition, or ceremony, or archaic. The purpose is to find the self. The reason why it was in every region of the world is because a culture by definition denies the self's right to exist, and so every culture has a need for it. If the culture doesn't have the individuals/foundation well defined, they become neurotic and martial. It's unfortunate that the Catholic church has burned these bridges into the past - the histories of all the cultures they over-powered and suppressed. They make it seem like they've been the only game in town for the last 2,000 years too, but the witch hunts were all about suppressing these old shamanic wise-women of Europe. The difference between shamanic culture and a "modern" culture is that the shaman sees the value of having the individual explore, and not just the culture expand. While the culture looks at how your cloths are funny looking and how you smell funny, the shaman looks through that and can see you.
And neurotransmitters: When you see the Eiffel Tower, do you have a miniature Eiffel Tower in your head? No. You have the image or reflection of the Eiffle Tower. Your image/reality is brought to you by the neurotransmitter serotonin (among others). A lot of the most sought after psychedelics (psilocybe mushrooms, mescaline, lsd, dmt, ibogaine, etc) attach to the serotonin receptors. Naturally your image of the Eiffel tower is going to be one off as well. So, you can see how this isn't a war on drugs, it's a war on mind states (1st Amendment?). There isn't any "ideal" or virgin or perfect state either. It's always changing. You think it's the same when you're sleeping, or angry?. And just because it's a foreign substance doesn't mean anything, because we need water, oxygen, and food. One of the things you look for as far as damage is how quickly it's metabolized, and if it damages the nerves. As far as I'm concerned, the laws "protecting" us from psychedelics (mind states) are no different than the laws "protecting" slaves from the burdens of freedom. If they mention anything about addiction, I bring up ibogaine. If you want to see damage, it's from party drugs and anti-psychotics that take the cake.
This is what harm from drugs looks like:
-------------------- I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes
Edited by maug (05/12/11 01:23 PM)
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