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OfflineManipulation

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid Atlantic, USA Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Suspected P. Cinctulus
    #14430554 - 05/10/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Suspected: Panaelous Cinctulus

North Central Maryland

Habitat: Found growing at the bottom of a hill at the edge of the forest. Most were found a few yards from a horse riding trail. Nearly all of the trees in the immediate vicinity seemed to be hardwoods. The ground was covered with grass and weeds. The soil was thick with decaying forest matter and horse droppings.

Cap: 2-4 cm in diameter. Mature specimen were convex to plane with uplifted, slightly wavy margin. Younger specimen looked more or less bluntly conical. Most were reddish brown when picked, some were sun bleached a tannish white. Darker ring around the margin of nearly all of the caps. Most have lost color quickly since being picked. Center of cap is slightly raised and red brown to yellow brown.

Stalk: 4-6 cm in length. Hollow, tan to reddish brown.

Gills: Adnate to adnexed. Rusty brown to tan, most are jet black from spore release.

Bruising: None viewed

Spore Print: Jet black

Other: Not all, but most were growing in clusters.





Any help is very much appreciated, thanks.


Edited by Manipulation (05/10/11 04:03 PM)


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OfflineOboy
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Registered: 05/03/11
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Manipulation]
    #14430585 - 05/10/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Looks good to me!


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OfflineOboy
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Oboy]
    #14430596 - 05/10/11 04:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hmm the one in pic no2 look odd...


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OfflineManipulation

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid Atlantic, USA Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Oboy]
    #14430610 - 05/10/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oboy said:
Hmm the one in pic no2 look odd...




The mushroom in the second picture is immature, and was about half of the size of the ones in the first picture.


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OfflineHarryL
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Registered: 11/16/10
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Manipulation]
    #14431050 - 05/10/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Any blueing at all at the base or mycelium?
Sounds like a pan to me, though not sure the sp. Could be though...


--------------------
Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.


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OfflineManipulation

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid Atlantic, USA Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: HarryL]
    #14431085 - 05/10/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

HarryL said:
Any blueing at all at the base or mycelium?
Sounds like a pan to me, though not sure the sp. Could be though...




I Checked very carefully and didn't see any. These were all a bit young, as it hasn't rained much for the past week. Today was probably the last day I could have grabbed them before they began to rot.


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Offlinegroople
Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 401
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: HarryL]
    #14431092 - 05/10/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

HarryL said:
Any blueing at all at the base or mycelium?
Sounds like a pan to me, though not sure the sp. Could be though...



I was under the impression that pan cincts, mycelium and all, don't typically blue.


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OfflineManipulation

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid Atlantic, USA Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: groople]
    #14431112 - 05/10/11 06:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

groople said:
Quote:

HarryL said:
Any blueing at all at the base or mycelium?
Sounds like a pan to me, though not sure the sp. Could be though...



I was under the impression that pan cincts, mycelium and all, don't typically blue.




They don't. Panaeolina Foenisecii, a close look a like, has brown/black spore prints, which was the main reason why I suspect these are P Cinctulus.


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OfflineKaiser
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Registered: 07/08/10
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Last seen: 11 years, 2 days
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Manipulation]
    #14431513 - 05/10/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

From your pics it looks like you have Panaeolina foenisecii. Sometimes even the spore prints can be hard to distinguish, but if the print is jet black you probably have cincts.


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OfflineHygrocybe
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Kaiser]
    #14431590 - 05/10/11 07:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Is it possible, or safe, to tell them apart by taste?


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Offlinegroople
Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 401
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Hygrocybe]
    #14431608 - 05/10/11 07:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hygrocybe said:
Is it possible, or safe, to tell them apart by taste?



Well pan foes aren't poisonous so even if you had exclusively pan foes it'd be safe to munch on them.


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OfflineHygrocybe
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: groople]
    #14431622 - 05/10/11 08:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The Wikipedia entries for these species make it sound as though taste could be used for an ID. It says cincts are farinaceous when young and salty when dried, and foes are an unpleasant nutty/fungal mix.

Edit: My guidebook says foes are poisonous.


Edited by Hygrocybe (05/10/11 08:18 PM)


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Offlineelprawn
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 14,303
Loc: Ilford, England
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Hygrocybe]
    #14431644 - 05/10/11 08:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Better photographs would be useful.


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Offlinegroople
Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 401
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Hygrocybe]
    #14431755 - 05/10/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hygrocybe said:
The Wikipedia entries for these species make it sound as though taste could be used for an ID. It says cincts are farinaceous when young and salty when dried, and foes are an unpleasant nutty/fungal mix.

Edit: My guidebook says foes are poisonous.



They aren't poisonous.  Some guidebooks list them as such due to reports of psilocybin in a handful of specimens.


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Offlinehyperjump69
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Registered: 05/08/11
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: groople]
    #14431800 - 05/10/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Foes are not poisonous...where's the pic?


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: hyperjump69]
    #14431810 - 05/10/11 08:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe inedible but that's not the same as poisonous; it just means unpalatable.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Hygrocybe]
    #14431818 - 05/10/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hygrocybe said:
Is it possible, or safe, to tell them apart by taste?





Both species taste the same to me.


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OfflineHygrocybe
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: groople]
    #14431833 - 05/10/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

That would explain it, other psilocybe shrooms are listed as poisonous in Mushrooms of Northeast North America. It didn't say what "poison" they contained.


Edited by Hygrocybe (05/10/11 08:47 PM)


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InvisibleIeponumos
Mycophile/Phytophile
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Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 4,850
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14432042 - 05/10/11 09:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Hygrocybe said:
Is it possible, or safe, to tell them apart by taste?





Both species taste the same to me.





Well they most certainly don't smell the same (at least to my nose)!


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OfflineManipulation

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid Atlantic, USA Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14432101 - 05/10/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The first tell tale sign in the field was a wide blade of grass which was growing diagonally out from under a cluster of these mushrooms and it had a perfect thick black spore print on it. Lower mushrooms in the clusters all have semi circle spots where it looks like black soot from the upper mushrooms dropping their spores. Is there any other identifying features that tell these two mushrooms apart? Would it be reasonable for me to eat one of these fresh and wait for onset type effects to know for sure? This species vary in color so greatly that I'm honestly not sure at this point. I used the key system in Mushrooms Demystified to come this far. Would anyone be able to say for sure?


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Manipulation]
    #14432124 - 05/10/11 09:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Manipulation said:
The first tell tale sign in the field was a wide blade of grass which was growing diagonally out from under a cluster of these mushrooms and it had a perfect thick black spore print on it. Lower mushrooms in the clusters all have semi circle spots where it looks like black soot from the upper mushrooms dropping their spores. Is there any other identifying features that tell these two mushrooms apart? Would it be reasonable for me to eat one of these fresh and wait for onset type effects to know for sure? This species vary in color so greatly that I'm honestly not sure at this point. I used the key system in Mushrooms Demystified to come this far. Would anyone be able to say for sure?




Collect 50 of them, then eat them. You will then know in less than one hour. One WILL NOT cut it.


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OfflineManipulation

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid Atlantic, USA Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14432578 - 05/10/11 11:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Although one may have been a bit modest, 50 of them just to see if they are active seems a little over doing it, don't you think? I know that P. Cinctulus has a moderately low amount of psilocybin, but surely not that low- just for a test dosage.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Manipulation]
    #14432605 - 05/10/11 11:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Manipulation said:
Although one may have been a bit modest, 50 of them just to see if they are active seems a little over doing it, don't you think? I know that P. Cinctulus has a moderately low amount of psilocybin, but surely not that low- just for a test dosage.




http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-Calculator

About an ounce of fresh P. subbs should do you in reality. The psilocybin content of some Panaeolus species is rather low.

EDIT: For a test dose, (note this is just :2cents:) 15 grams would be a starter imo.


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Edited by Ieponumos (05/10/11 11:14 PM)


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OfflineHarryL
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14432646 - 05/10/11 11:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:
HarryL said:
Any blueing at all at the base or mycelium?
Sounds like a pan to me, though not sure the sp. Could be though...

response:
'I was under the impression that pan cincts, mycelium and all, don't typically blue.'

I did not say typically, but have seen it written they can blue... And Have seen bluing on the base of other non-bluing sp. ... No expert on these at all... Just thought it might be worth a shot!

Pretty weak, right?


--------------------
Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.


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Invisible1a4
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: HarryL]
    #14432686 - 05/10/11 11:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

from my experience some cincts mycelium do blue, but not all of them

and eating 50 of them would be a good indication if they contain psilocin, as from my experience they are not very strong. I would not count on that calculator as, from lawn found cincts, 7.9 grams didnt put me at a "lvl 5"

though, i would have to say, they tend to feel a bit different then your everyday cubes, a lot smoother/dreamier


Edited by 1a4 (05/10/11 11:36 PM)


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OfflineManipulation

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid Atlantic, USA Flag
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: 1a4]
    #14432737 - 05/10/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I just ate a few and they were quite salty tasting.

edit: ate a few more that were fresher and they were quite bitter.


Edited by Manipulation (05/10/11 11:46 PM)


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OfflineOboy
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Re: Suspected P. Cinctulus [Re: 1a4]
    #14432991 - 05/11/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

1a4 said:

and eating 50 of them would be a good indication if they contain psilocin, as from my experience they are not very strong. I would not count on that calculator as, from lawn found cincts, 7.9 grams didnt put me at a "lvl 5"





My experience says that they can vary alot in potency, lawn cincts usually weaker than those growing on horse/cow manure. But still can vary alot between patches in the same habitats as well.

If it was my cincts i wouldnt take 50 without testing a lower dose first.


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