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Offlinedondoodle
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14424695 - 05/09/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:




Its very fucking obvious why RP is running for the republicans, it had NOTHING TO DO WITH A CONSPIRACY TO START WAR OR TO DECIEVE PEOPLE, its because the only way to get some media attention is to be part of presidential debates and he has to be republican to do that


You are quite dense. I am not saying Ron Paul is part of the conspiracy, I am saying he is a pawn and opportunist being manipulated and used by the Republican Party. I am also saying if he truly had principles he would abandon the Republican party for all of the crimes it has committed but he either 1. cares more about his lifetime salary and pension than antiwar principles or 2. he is naive enough to believe that he is doing more good in the Republican Party than outside of it.

Only when people build a mass movement and or political party opposing the Republican and Democrat wing of the criminal heinous disgusting criminal syndicate United War Party will you be able to defeat that party. From within is a waste of time and that was proven in 2008. What did Ron Paul win in 2008? That is all he will win in 2012. Likewise look at all the moronic Democrats who voted for Barak Obama because they thought he was some sort of pragmatic anti-war alternative choice to Hillary Clinton. I mean the absolute idiocy of voting for a pro-war party candidate. That is almost what the Ron Paul cult members are doing voting for a Republican wing candidate of the United War Party. What utter self delusion and lack of moral principles the Ron Paul people have.

Quote:

you dont understand that RONNPAUL is a true conservative, i dont know why but you obviously cannot understand this,

and he is calling them out silly pants, every debate he clearly contradicts their statements and he always says bring the troops home and to NOT INTERVENE WITH OTHER COUNTRIES PROBLEMS, Fox news only gives him 30seconds and always  cuts him off, he is not your typical GOP so stop saying he is




When Ron Paul says such soft shit as "we should not interfere in other nations business" you think that is a taking a hard line against imperialst war? Rhetorically Ron Paul is softer than baby shit and that extends to what he says about the drug war too.

Ron Paul fully supports elections being bought by the highest bidder,citizens United etcetera. he is a typical Republican in that sense. What a utter moron he is for believing you can stop the drug war or imperialist wars while still allowing  the political system to be bought. I want to thank you for reinforcing this lesson because in a way I am making the same stupid mistake Ron Paul is by focusing on the Drug War and Imperialist without focusing on the link to money. So in that sense I am making the same moronic mistake Ron Paul is however I sure will not ever vote Republican or Democrat ever again my life because I have true principles and I know better than to vote for my enemy. Do not vote for the U.W.P.

Ron Paul is an ideologue lunatic who stands for the right of corporate, oligarch and the rich to buy elections. What an absolute nut he is in that sense, a Republican War Party nut.


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End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.

Edited by dondoodle (05/09/11 01:54 PM)

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Offlinedondoodle
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: TheMacDaddyLongLeg]
    #14424883 - 05/09/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TheMacDaddyLongLeg said:
[quote=dondoodle]You claim governance itself is the problem then you say to vote for Ron Paul and the Republican wing of the United War party. Anyone who believes governance in and of itself is the problem is an absolute nut. You contradicted yourself and are asking people to vote for the war party which is murdering people and enslaving them for drugs in this country and around the globe. This is naivety, a serious lack of basic facts and an nonobjective grasp on the history of the Republican party on your part.

Serious education and deprogramming is needed for the Ron Paul cult members who are unable to recognize that they are voting for their enemy - the Republican wing of the U.W.P -United War Party (Democrat and Republican).




Quote:

Actually anyone who believes they can control or claim ownership over another human being is a nut and more than likely a psychopath and definatly a narcissist.




The state has proven it can control ownership of humans. I might agree with your sentiment if you word it differently but ownership over young people and prisoners has been established. You might not like it and in the case of young people and some so called crimes I agree with your sentiment but control and ownership has been established. 

Quote:

Ron paul and the freedom movement have nothing more to do with the republican party other than the label that it is. You want to bash republicans when democrats are equally war hawkish just as republicans are equally socialist and big government. There really is zero difference between both parties.




On the large issues I agree with you. Thee Republicans and Democrats wings of the UWP both support war, murderous mercenaries around the globe, racism, colonialism, the rights of national and global capital monopolization and the Federal Reserve banking system.

Quote:

It doesn't take long for any rational human being to realize that theft, manipulation, and deception offer little if any protection or security, or even prosperity which government claims for its existance. You can not name me one excuse for government. Anything government offers can be replaced and done better through the free market and the freedom of individuals and private business owners.




Here you show yourself to be extremist nut. I fully support prisons for assault, murder and violent rape. Public parks and roadways I support those. I would support tax collection but so much of that money is used for the war and the police state. Until the wars are stopped however I don't support tax collection.

Quote:

How is it a contradiction to elect a statesman who advocates freedom? which is what I just said I wanted.


This makes you look dumb. You want to elect a STATESMAN while advocating the abolishment of the state and it's political system? How many times do I have to point out this absurd contradiction? Of course this is akin to what Ron Paul advocates on a lot of things so I understand how you can feel affinity for the man. His and your contradictions are glaringly obvious.

Quote:

There are only 3 ways to bring about a free society where liberty can take hold and that is Revolution, Agorism, or political action.

Violent revolution never works, It is simply taking out the largest monopoly so the next most powerful entity with the most resources and funds will step in. This has happened with every revolution to date. So no I do not believe violence is the way to go. And how could you justify violence to begin with if you are promoting humanitarian philosophies? No this route does nothing for our cause.




Violent revolution does work, it just does not meet all of it's goals and the price is often too high to pay. When the state is out of control violence remains the right of the people and the oppressed to free themselves.

Quote:

Agorism is going to be very hard to acomplish as well because the government will and has already stepped in to stop it right in its tracks.

In fact the only way we are to ever achieve any kind of peace and prosperity is through education. Regardless of what you think, how society is ran or not ran is always discussed through politics. Those of us who want real freedom are not trying to split people apart or make enemies We are trying to bring people together, and only freedom allows this. Political action = nonviolent revolution through education. This is the only way we will ever bring about real change.




With your comments about "no reason for the existence of government" you are advocating agorism yourself.

Nonviolent action almost always or usually if you prefer leads to violence that is a fact. When protesting the state will commit violence against protesters. Protesters defending themselves from assault is a right that should never be relinquished. Education is a huge part of the solution obviously but so is protest and the right to self defense and self preservation when you are acting in a just manner.

Quote:

you have a lot to learn about us, and we are more than a label or part of some party that you so carelessly judge us by. Do some research and you will find that we are correct 100% of the time. We have the answers. It is simple, it is slavery, and it is easily abolished.




That's one thing you are absolutely correct on, I judge all Ron Paulists by the party they vote for, and that party is committing unconscious and enduring crimes. I will never support the Republican or Democrat wings of the United War Party because I have moral principles and a clear vision of the consequences of such action by myself and the masses.


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End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.

Edited by dondoodle (05/09/11 02:32 PM)

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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dondoodle]
    #14425071 - 05/09/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

For what it's worth, I believe Ron Paul is still registered as a Libertarian, even though he is running under the Republican bill.

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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: D.M.T]
    #14425365 - 05/09/11 04:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yes he is

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OfflineOnox
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14425700 - 05/09/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I very much like Ron Paul's stance on drugs, but that's about all I like him for. States rights arguments are tired imo, not saying that states shouldn't have rights, but every time I hear about states rights it's an argument used for legalized oppression. For example, Ron Paul takes a states rights approach for gay marriage, where states should be able to decide whether gays can get married. Why? It's either okay or it's not okay, what insight does the state have that the feds don't? And when it comes to taxes... governments don't run without money. We already owe over ten trillion dollars to other countries, so we're going to not have taxes and pay them back... how? Ron Paul, and even many of the other Republicans, seem to think that America is the same power that we were thirty years ago. We're not nearly as good as we used to be, and if we don't watch out we're gonna be a third world country really fast. Especially if we default on our national debt. And isolationism isn't going to work in our globalized society.


--------------------
I like my women like I like my electrophilic carbons -- susceptible to backside attack.

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Offlinedip
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14425713 - 05/09/11 05:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

All other points in this debate aside, I would welcome anyone to demonstrate how business will police itself with regards to the environment.  There's more than two hundred years of history just in this country-the U.S.-showing the opposite.

There ARE some legitimate functions of government and I'm as certain as a person can be that safeguarding natural resources is one of them.

RP does have a stance on the prohibition of various "drugs" that I could support.  But from what I can tell of the man, he would fail quite miserably in other important areas. 

dip

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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dip] * 1
    #14425729 - 05/09/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

he just doesnt want the federal government involved! he explains his view as the states can inact what they want, and that we will still have AMAZINGLY strong property rights, and if someone is polluting they will be sued and made to clean up in the courts. We dont need all these different agencies!

Plus in his first term he would just cut everything, just hundreds of billions off of defense budget and allow younger people to opt out of social security

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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Onox]
    #14425749 - 05/09/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Onox said:
I very much like Ron Paul's stance on drugs, but that's about all I like him for. States rights arguments are tired imo, not saying that states shouldn't have rights, but every time I hear about states rights it's an argument used for legalized oppression. For example, Ron Paul takes a states rights approach for gay marriage, where states should be able to decide whether gays can get married. Why? It's either okay or it's not okay, what insight does the state have that the feds don't? And when it comes to taxes... governments don't run without money. We already owe over ten trillion dollars to other countries, so we're going to not have taxes and pay them back... how? Ron Paul, and even many of the other Republicans, seem to think that America is the same power that we were thirty years ago. We're not nearly as good as we used to be, and if we don't watch out we're gonna be a third world country really fast. Especially if we default on our national debt. And isolationism isn't going to work in our globalized society.




his idea is that if its not in the constitution, the FEd should stay out of it!  some states might think its ok, while others might not. Its not the federal governments job to tell who can marry who, and having states rights allows us to have 50 different testing grounds to find out what works best.

what works in georgia might not work in california.. he believs the constitution was made to limit government not the citizens, we need to stop spending. We are on the verge of an even bigger crisis.. we cant just keep printing moeny.

RP is our only hope

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Offlinedip
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14425777 - 05/09/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Eh, environmental problems cross state lines.  You can preserve all the good duck habitat you want in say, Wisconsin, but if the folks in those same duck's wintering grounds in Louisiana aren't big on the environment, the species will still decline.  That's just one example that I though of while typing it.  There are literally thousands more.

I don't think you guys are dumber than me.  But you might be a lot younger than me, I don't know.  What I do know is that the human mind is naturally drawn to simple solutions.  Mostly though, complex problems, of which there are many, don't lend themselves to simple solutions.  Sorry.

dip

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OfflineTheMacDaddyLongLeg
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dip]
    #14425889 - 05/09/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

All other points in this debate aside, I would welcome anyone to demonstrate how business will police itself with regards to the environment.  There's more than two hundred years of history just in this country-the U.S.-showing the opposite.




This really is not true. My argument here is that most pollution and enviromental carelessness is at fault of the government having really no respect for property rights. 200 years of destruction of the constitution! in fact it shows the opposite. Laws override and obscure property rights and thus fail to adequately protect or define those rights and laws governing. class and individual tort claims provide polluters with immunity from tort claims, or interfere with those claims in such a way as to make it difficult to legally sustain them. Just as you are not allowed to harm another person you are not allowed to harm another persons fruits of labor(property).

Overexploitation occurs to the extent of the lack of ownership incentives to care for the property, and that this communalization effect occurs to the extent of multiplicity of ownership. Overexploitation reduces the intrinsic and retail value of the property.
Pollution occurs where and to the extent that victims are prevented or hindered from seeking tort restitution for such aggression. Legislative and Judicial authorities have tended to favor heavy industries over individuals or class action in favor of public property and the common good.
Pollution clean-up also occurs naturally in a free market, because reducing the negative value of a property is a net gain, again leading to a higher intrinsic or retail value, and thus marketability.

And overconsumption is a flawed concept, because it assumes that resources are non-renewable. The market, through supply and demand, regulates consumption by adjusting it according to supply. For example, if a resource becomes more scarce, its value increases and thus also its cost. This forces consumers to redirect their purchases to alternate resources which are in more plentiful supply. In addition, the higher market value of the resource creates an incentive to create more of the commodity, and allows for a greater expenditure in doing so.

If it wasnt for government monopoly on oil i would bet a million dollars we would all have clean renewable energy right now. I know this for a fact.

Quote:

There ARE some legitimate functions of government and I'm as certain as a person can be that safeguarding natural resources is one of them.




I would welcome anyone to demonstrate how any area of government is necessary without a better off working alternative.

Edited by TheMacDaddyLongLeg (05/09/11 08:08 PM)

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OfflineTheMacDaddyLongLeg
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: TheMacDaddyLongLeg]
    #14426119 - 05/09/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The state has proven it can control ownership of humans. I might agree with your sentiment if you word it differently but ownership over young people and prisoners has been established. You might not like it and in the case of young people and some so called crimes I agree with your sentiment but control and ownership has been established.




just because it is "established" doesnt mean it is moral nor practical or right. Your sentiment follows the same axiom of owning a black man or a cute 17 year old sex slave because it has been established.

Quote:

On the large issues I agree with you. Thee Republicans and Democrats wings of the UWP both support war, murderous mercenaries around the globe, racism, colonialism, the rights of national and global capital monopolization and the Federal Reserve banking system.




Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:

Here you show yourself to be extremist nut. I fully support prisons for assault, murder and violent rape. Public parks and roadways I support those. I would support tax collection but so much of that money is used for the war and the police state. Until the wars are stopped however I don't support tax collection.




I still don't see whats so extreme about taking care of my own life without buying into the propaganda of government security. How often have you heard of a police officer stopping a murder, or stoping a violent rape or assault. Humans are going to do what they do and you cant stop that.

The market is very smart and adaptable. It is all supply and demand. I could easily envision free market private defense forces arising when there is danger. In a free market system these defense forces could only protect property(your body is your property) So I only see the system as being better to cater to market needs and have an incentive to meet the greatest goal possible. I bet there would be no drug war.

Parks, roads, and other public services have been proven better served by the private sector. Look up Sandy Springs, GA and how they outsourced everything, and look how much money they have and how well their economy is doing by supporting local business and communities rather than government monopolies.

You obviously don't realize that taxation is morally theft no matter how you look at it. It is aggression plain and simple and very bad for a economy regardless. It is just the misplacement of wealth.
Besides 0% of the taxes you pay goes into most goods and services you would expect out of government today.

Quote:

This makes you look dumb. You want to elect a STATESMAN while advocating the abolishment of the state and it's political system? How many times do I have to point out this absurd contradiction? Of course this is akin to what Ron Paul advocates on a lot of things so I understand how you can feel affinity for the man. His and your contradictions are glaringly obvious




Rational discussion actually makes me look smart, name calling would make me look like I'm backed into a corner with no way out. I believe in a lot of things other than anarchy dude. I believe in freedom, and I believe it would be very wreckless to cause anarchy overnight. there has to be time to let the market adjust to the new situations, time for people to figure out solutions to problems other than let government take care of it. It's not us VS. you. It is we all need to think of a non coercive way to handle our situations. Returning to constitutional government would be a fantastic start.

Quote:

Violent revolution does work, it just does not meet all of it's goals and the price is often too high to pay. When the state is out of control violence remains the right of the people and the oppressed to free themselves.




Anyone who advocates violence looks pretty dumb in my book. There is a very large deference between aggression and self defense.

Quote:

With your comments about "no reason for the existence of government" you are advocating agorism yourself.




I should have put more emphases on the counter economy aspect of agorism for achieving a voluntary society. you know what I mean!

Quote:

That's one thing you are absolutely correct on, I judge all Ron Paulists by the party they vote for, and that party is committing unconscious and enduring crimes. I will never support the Republican or Democrat wings of the United War Party because I have moral principles and a clear vision of the consequences of such action by myself and the masses.




Well the sooner you leave your emotions at the door and wake up and see that this movement and ron paul are the best and prob. the only way in this lifetime we are to achieve real liberty. the sooner we can all be working together for something a lot greater. You are denying yourself freedom and giving up a very real opportunity to change the world... you know Or this time next year we can be discussing WWWIII because no one not even obama and all his change will ever make a difference, neither will the next guy or the next... It has to be ron paul, the time is now.

Edited by TheMacDaddyLongLeg (05/09/11 08:11 PM)

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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: TheMacDaddyLongLeg]
    #14428725 - 05/10/11 08:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Who ever said Ron Paul is a Republican is full of ca-ca.  He is Libertarian--he is running for the republican nom, but that doesn't mean he is Republican. 

Q: What republican advocates pure states rights, doing away with militarism?  Which democrats do?

A: None, they are all a bunch of nanny-state globalists. 

Ron Paul and people like him are one of the last chances this country has of getting back on track. 

The question is, if you don't like Ron Paul, and don't like Republicans, that leaves... The Community Organizer. 

And he is a jive, lying, arrogant, stupid globalist, just like Bush was.  Just more so.


--------------------
:smug: [/url][/url] 
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OfflineTheMacDaddyLongLeg
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: starfire_xes]
    #14428963 - 05/10/11 09:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

actually Republicans have historically been more anti war than
Democrats.

Wanna know an interesting tid bit. Republicans have also historically been more pro union :grin:

There really is no difference between both parties other than republicans are usually 20 years behind democrats.

Ron paul is not registered libertarian where the hell did you get that from? if he was registered libertarian he could not participate in the republican primaries.

The reason he chose republicans over democrats is simply the motto and nothing more. Republicans want smaller government and so in essence he is a republican. Who cares what party he is registered for? The way our political system is set up is so deeply rooted into 2 parties there is no way around it. If he didn't choose one then he had zero chance. You have to give the man props for being practical. You guys want to sit around and get your feelings hurt because he is a statesman but if you listen to what he is actually saying he is advocating a voluntary society.

So you punks can either keep sitting around in your parents basements listening to NOFX punching walls shouting "ANARCHY!" or you can stop being little douche bags and do something with your life and vote to make this actually happen.

Edited by TheMacDaddyLongLeg (05/10/11 09:23 AM)

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: TheMacDaddyLongLeg]
    #14429176 - 05/10/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

He has been a Republican congress man for 11 terms as well.

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Offlinedondoodle
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: TheMacDaddyLongLeg]
    #14433998 - 05/11/11 09:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TheMacDaddyLongLeg said:
actually Republicans have historically been more anti war than
Democrats.

Wanna know an interesting tid bit. Republicans have also historically been more pro union :grin:

There really is no difference between both parties other than republicans are usually 20 years behind democrats.

Ron paul is not registered libertarian where the hell did you get that from? if he was registered libertarian he could not participate in the republican primaries.

The reason he chose republicans over democrats is simply the motto and nothing more. Republicans want smaller government and so in essence he is a republican. Who cares what party he is registered for? The way our political system is set up is so deeply rooted into 2 parties there is no way around it. If he didn't choose one then he had zero chance. You have to give the man props for being practical. You guys want to sit around and get your feelings hurt because he is a statesman but if you listen to what he is actually saying he is advocating a voluntary society.




Ya Ron Paul is a member of the Republican wing of the United War Party and supports the existence of that disgusting criminal party. All the Republican voters are guilty of directly supporting mass murder, imperialism and the drug war when they vote for Republicans. That is a simple fact.

Quote:

So you punks can either keep sitting around in your parents basements listening to NOFX punching walls shouting "ANARCHY!" or you can stop being little douche bags and do something with your life and vote to make this actually happen.




Yeah get out there and do the right thing like all the Republican war party voters , vote for the criminal party and the criminal minority of voters who vote for Republicans and Democrat wings of the United War Party. You Ron Paul Republicans help prop that party up while those of us who are truly Anti- drug war and anti imperialist war oppose the Republicans and Democrat wings of the United War Party on principle knowing that anyone who votes for any of those parties is a criminal themselves. You Ron Paul cult members are full of absurd contradictions and your actions (voting war party)speak louder than your empty words.


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End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.

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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dondoodle]
    #14434262 - 05/11/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:tinfoil:

i think you should get off your conspiracy websites and actually watch some ron paul video's man. You clearly are making way too many assumptions

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OfflineTheMacDaddyLongLeg
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14434706 - 05/11/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

dondoodle = Government troll

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Invisibleguitardude3
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #14436484 - 05/11/11 07:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EdgeChaos said:


Honestly I'm pretty impressed. I don't side with one group or another but republicans have been up to the most ridiculous bullshit recently. There is a reason they lost the last presidential election and Paul seems to be targeting that specific weakness.

Of course, it is doubtful that most or any of his campaign promises would be fulfilled, but his rhetoric is nice.




Thanks for this video, it gives me hope. I get pretty upset when I express ideas like his and ignorant Americans get all up in arms about allowing people to have freedom. I hope common sense will one day prevail!


--------------------
All you see is an illusion, including my posts.

"Thanks to impermanence, everything is possible."
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: guitardude3]
    #14447119 - 05/13/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

While no one's counting votes, and in my belief - its more than naive to vote. Fuck it, I'll vote for Paul.

Ron Paul 2012


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.

Edited by ahchela (05/13/11 06:46 PM)

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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: TheMacDaddyLongLeg]
    #14447189 - 05/13/11 06:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TheMacDaddyLongLeg said:
dondoodle = Government troll





dondoodle = Government TOOL


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