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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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ron paul is a charlatan * 1
    #14427755 - 05/10/11 12:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just felt like putting that out there, for those of you who can't see through his act.

1) No chance he'll be elected, much less nominated for presidential candidacy by the GOP. The GOP establishment are not big fans of crazy ideas like ending the drug war and dissolving the fed. Even if he were somehow nominated and then through some staggering miracle against the odds got elected president, his own party would fight tooth and nail against the policies he claims to advocate.

2) He knows this, and he exploits anti-drug-war passions to the very best of his ability to gain name recognition and campaign contributions.

3) His son, Rand Paul, actually has a chance of being elected someday, being that he doesn't have the same sort of spotty (disloyal to the GOP) record that his father does. Also, he is photogenic, whereas his father is no more attractive than the equally-awesome-but-similarly-doomed Democratic perennial Denis Kucinich.



I still wouldn't vote for Rand Paul unless that particular dynasty develops a much more comprehensive understanding of economics and a much less-racist view of American culture.


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Invisiblegzuf
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 4
    #14427759 - 05/10/11 12:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

He's a charlatan because, by your standards, he has no chance?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427760 - 05/10/11 12:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

GOP doesn't get anything done no matter who they elect


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: gzuf]
    #14427761 - 05/10/11 12:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gzuf said:
He's a charlatan because, by your standards, he has no chance?




He's a charlatan because by his own standards he has no chance. He is full of hot air.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427771 - 05/10/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think his economic views are bullshit, but I don't for a minute doubt the sincerity of his beliefs.  The shit he says in debates gets a rise out a very vocal minority, but almost assure that he'll never get elected.  So no, I don't think he's a charlatan.  A cult leader, maybe.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Silversoul]
    #14427775 - 05/10/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think his economic views are bullshit, but I don't for a minute doubt the sincerity of his beliefs.  The shit he says in debates gets a rise out a very vocal minority, but almost assure that he'll never get elected.  So no, I don't think he's a charlatan.  A cult leader, maybe.




You think he means the stuff he says? I must be getting cynical.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427783 - 05/10/11 12:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I just think that if he was personally invested in the populism he conjures, he would be running as a Democrat or as an Independent. He should know by now that the GOP doesn't choose candidates based upon who makes the most sense. The GOP chooses candidates based upon an inner-party hierarchy.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427785 - 05/10/11 12:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think his economic views are bullshit, but I don't for a minute doubt the sincerity of his beliefs.  The shit he says in debates gets a rise out a very vocal minority, but almost assure that he'll never get elected.  So no, I don't think he's a charlatan.  A cult leader, maybe.




You think he means the stuff he says? I must be getting cynical.



I don't see what benefit he gets out of faking it.  I mean, sure he's popular with a small group of young people and some of the less despicable Tea Partiers, but his outspokenness on some very controversial issues virtually ensure that he'll never get elected.  I think he does it to advance his ideas more than himself.  He's the opposite of a charlatan:  he's an ideologue.


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OfflineLoveYourLife
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14427786 - 05/10/11 12:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The fuck?  Why do you think he doesn't mean what he says?  His voting record is extremely consistent with everything he has ever claimed.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427789 - 05/10/11 12:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I just think that if he was personally invested in the populism he conjures, he would be running as a Democrat or as an Independent. He should know by now that the GOP doesn't choose candidates based upon who makes the most sense. The GOP chooses candidates based upon an inner-party hierarchy.



He ran as a Libertarian Party candidate in 1988.  I think he decided he would get better publicity running as a major party candidate, and as a pro-life fiscal conservative, he felt more at home in the Republican party than the Democratic party.


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Invisiblegzuf
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14427800 - 05/10/11 12:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
He's a charlatan because by his own standards he has no chance. He is full of hot air.




I don't know what his own standards are, but you are probably right. He doesn't have a big chance. He has no chance because the accepted two party system is built atop such a machine of money and influence that there is absolutely no space for anyone with a unique idea or different perspective then right vs. left to enter. You can't beat these amounts of money as an essentially 3rd party Republican. It's a shame, but I'd imagine Ron Paul wouldn't say that to turn off would-be voters.


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InvisibleThe Whale

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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: gzuf] * 4
    #14427813 - 05/10/11 01:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ron Paul doesn't have a chance because he speaks truth in an environment that is anti-truth and pro-bullshit. A fairly predictable scenario.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427880 - 05/10/11 01:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I just think that if he was personally invested in the populism he conjures, he would be running as a Democrat or as an Independent.




Right, a guy who is all about limited government, wants to abolish the Dept. of Education and thinks charity should be handled by the private sector is going to run as a Democrat?  I mean, I know the GOP is no longer a party of limited gov't but 'traditionally' it was, and RP is a traditional kind of guy.

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Viveka] * 4
    #14427905 - 05/10/11 01:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Your reasoning for calling him a "charlatan" basically consists of, "He wants to legalize drugs, and he's ugly".


:curbyourenthusiasm:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14427930 - 05/10/11 01:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm saying that after so long in the GOP he must know by now that he has no chance of being nominated by the GOP and yet, he continues to run as a Republican. This leads me to believe that he has absolutely no actual intention to run for the presidency.

I'd honestly LIKE for y'all to be right. I'd like to have a strongly anti-big-government, anti-drug war President.

But I also happen to notice that he's not even trying. If he was serious about his rhetoric he would not be running for the Republican ticket.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427942 - 05/10/11 01:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I'm saying that after so long in the GOP he must know by now that he has no chance of being nominated by the GOP and yet, he continues to run as a Republican. This leads me to believe that he has absolutely no actual intention to run for the presidency.



So what?  Running for president can help spread your ideas even if you don't win the nomination.  That's why Dennis Kucinich still does it.

Quote:

But I also happen to notice that he's not even trying. If he was serious about his rhetoric he would not be running for the Republican ticket.



As Viveka pointed out, his ideas are pretty well at home in the Goldwater faction of the Republican party.  And he would have even less chance of winning if he ran as a Democrat.


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Invisiblegzuf
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427949 - 05/10/11 01:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'd say he is more republican than a lot of more mainstream republicans. Afterall, if he got the nomination as a republican at least he has the help, presumably, of fellow Republicans. From what I know Ron Paul isn't related to Michael Bloomberg and doesn't have $1 billion dollars to run an independent campaign. At the very least he has a platform to voice his ideals and gain influence, which I argue you see a lot of. I'd also argue with the current crowd of presidential hopefuls this is his best chance.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Silversoul]
    #14427967 - 05/10/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Classical conservatism is dead. Chris Buckley, son of the infamous William F .Buckley, recently got fired from the National Review (founded by his father) for having endorsed Obama and for noticing that the right-wing movement is being increasingly bogged-down by radical elements.

The Republican party is almost entirely neoconservative by now; they are tacitly in favor of big government and of American military intervention throughout the world. These fundamentals run directly contrary to the original conservative movement.

Ron Paul knows this, but I just can't take him seriously. I know he has no hope. :shrug: I call him a charlatan because if he was serious about his principles he would not be running on the Republican ticket. The Republican Party is directly opposed to everything he claims to believe. Any progressive-minded member of the GOP is an anomaly ignored by the party hierarchy.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14427986 - 05/10/11 02:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Again, I'm totally against the drug war and against the police state, just like Paul. I just don't think he's in a position to accomplish anything, at all. He's just trying to get reelected.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: ron paul is a charlatan [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14428479 - 05/10/11 06:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so wait... you support his positions but wont vote for him because you feel
he wouldnt get elected or even get the nomination or even win the primaries

have you ever heard the term 'wasted vote', it's where you vote for someone
because you think they have a shot at winning instead of voting for the one
who's ideals are similar to your own... why not just go vote at the horse
track, there's a chance you could win $100

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