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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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The ol foreskin debate, continued... 1
#14427707 - 05/10/11 12:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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If women have such a strong preference about circumcision in a man, then why arent realistic "uncut" dildos popular? And when was the last time you saw an uncircumcised dude in a porno? Theyre virtually non-existent these days. I know these dudes arent hard to come by. Is that just something people dont want to see?
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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This debate annoys the SHIT out of me. Women who have that preference, FINE, but you bitches better listen up when a dude tells you to go get some tit surgery, coz your tits are a shit shape or too fucking small.
Coz seriously, it's the same goddamn thing.
Circumcision - Infaernal
For those who aren't retarded, having a foreskin or not makes no medical difference.
For those who aren't retarded (which SHOULD be most of western society), circumcision is purely cosmetic, unneccessary and a matter of subjective opinion.
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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CandyGirl

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,259
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I've never been with a guy who was uncircumcised but it wouldn't matter to me if a guy I like is. I don't have a preference  I wonder if it feels any different...
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1,260
Loc: Cloud 9
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: CandyGirl] 1
#14427828 - 05/10/11 01:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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i like the look of my circumcised wang... the foreskin just looks like it would slow me down and id probably rip it or something.. it just like slides around on there all weird.. i would think its more sensitive and feels better to be circumcised? the skin is tighter and the part of the dick that feels best is better exposed.. its easier to clean.. i used to fuck this girl who told me she would have never had sex with me if i had a foreskin and actually asked me before if i was circumcised or not.. i think now days its just considered normal particularly among western caucasian people.... its probably more common than not.. im not saying its "better" or anything... but im sure happy im circumcised.... my kids will all be circumcised if i ever have any....
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sandi
omg


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 796
Loc: M6 (Butterfly Cluster)
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: If women have such a strong preference about circumcision in a man, then why arent realistic "uncut" dildos popular? And when was the last time you saw an uncircumcised dude in a porno? Theyre virtually non-existent these days. I know these dudes arent hard to come by. Is that just something people dont want to see?
First off, I don't think you can peg women into liking it one way or another. Think about the problems of not only reaching a huge segment of the population, but also are they even answering truthfully?
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Edited by sandi (05/22/11 05:16 AM)
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14427851 - 05/10/11 01:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok, few misconstrued facts there:
The foreskin DOESN'T slow you down, nor does it "rip". It has a purpose, and exposing your sensitive bits to CONSTANT stimulation actually REDUCES sensitivity, not INCREASES it. The foreskin helps with sexual intercourse in that it provides a place for vaginal fluids to enter and stay, to allow for better lubrication.
Only retards or dumbshits don't know how to clean their dicks, it quite literally takes about 1 second to fold that back and clean it.
Circumcision of babies to me is child abuse. If it makes no difference whether they are or not, why are you making the choice for them? Why not leave a person's sexual organs to themselves to choose what they want to do to it?
And as for the women bothered by the uncircumcised, I find that incredibly shallow... it is the SAME as the breast implant argument. An argument of cosmetics and the pushing of sexual stereotypes. I also doubt you'll find that there's a majority of men circumcised today. Don't create poor arguments like that, just because you and your friends are.
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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I don't like the idea of involuntary body mutilation. It just seems wrong.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14427873 - 05/10/11 01:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZenXi6 said: And as for the women bothered by the uncircumcised, I find that incredibly shallow... it is the SAME as the breast implant argument. An argument of cosmetics and the pushing of sexual stereotypes. I also doubt you'll find that there's a majority of men circumcised today. Don't create poor arguments like that, just because you and your friends are.
No women said they were bothered by it.
It's all a matter of opinion but I think to the majority of girls it doesn't matter.
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Anonymous #1]
#14428009 - 05/10/11 02:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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ehh its just a thing... we're all different... when it comes down to it your parents decided when you were a baby.. the only reason id do my kids like that is because im like that and i prefer it that way.. i dont know how it is the other way on the other hand.. i mean.. whatcha gon do? it is what it is....
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Mjau


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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow] 1
#14428212 - 05/10/11 03:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wow said: ehh its just a thing... we're all different... when it comes down to it your parents decided when you were a baby.. the only reason id do my kids like that is because im like that and i prefer it that way.. i dont know how it is the other way on the other hand.. i mean.. whatcha gon do? it is what it is....
I'm bald but I prefer it that way, so I'm going to surgically remove the hair on my babies. Whatcha gon do...
I like gauged ears, so I'll just do that too. It's not mutilation, because it's the way I prefer it. Durr hurr.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6] 1
#14428226 - 05/10/11 03:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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What's the fucking difference... circumcised or not, dick just works, and is easy enough to clean. It's like the Mac/PC debate: the more insignificant the differences, the more heated the debate, it seems.
Quote:
ZenXi6 said: coz your tits are a shit shape or too fucking small.
Send the small tits over to me. I think small tits are super sexy
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 11,281
Loc: Nasty Women Get Shit Done
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: CandyGirl]
#14428876 - 05/10/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
CandyGirl said: I've never been with a guy who was uncircumcised but it wouldn't matter to me if a guy I like is. I don't have a preference  I wonder if it feels any different...
it feels really really REALLY good. there's a movement there that's almost like a natural lubricant.
i love uncircumcised!
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Uzziel
O_o


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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: yogabunny]
#14429614 - 05/10/11 12:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I really don't give a fuck because I'm already cut, not by choice though. I don't see what there is to debate about. Obviously it is going to feel a bit better if the glands are protected
Fuckin eh
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AUX
Entheogenist

Registered: 03/12/11
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Uzziel]
#14429652 - 05/10/11 12:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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this thread is full of 
Im uncircumcised and my girl LOVES my dick
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Cherk
Fashionable


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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: AUX]
#14429874 - 05/10/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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GIRL JUST PULL MY SKIN BACK AND SUCK MY DICK
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Aser
("")(-.-)("")




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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Cherk] 1
#14429894 - 05/10/11 01:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm glad my parents didn't have me circumcised. The foreskin is like a built in masturbation sleeve.
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Mjau]
#14430794 - 05/10/11 05:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mjau said:
Quote:
wow said: ehh its just a thing... we're all different... when it comes down to it your parents decided when you were a baby.. the only reason id do my kids like that is because im like that and i prefer it that way.. i dont know how it is the other way on the other hand.. i mean.. whatcha gon do? it is what it is....
I'm bald but I prefer it that way, so I'm going to surgically remove the hair on my babies. Whatcha gon do...
I like gauged ears, so I'll just do that too. It's not mutilation, because it's the way I prefer it. Durr hurr. 
This point of view is pretty much why I started this thread. The "mutilation" debate. Like theres some satanic ritual involved while we chop your dick off with a rusty blade. I guess getting your tonsils removed could be considered mutilation too? To say youre not using the word "mutilation" in an attempt to be condescending would be a lie.
I could really care less, and hardly consider it a debate at all. My only stance on the matter is a recent conversation I had with a friend. Hes in his early 40s, uncircumcised. He missed a lot of opportunities in life, mostly to spare himself ridicule in the locker room. Hes always been the tough kid, and very athletic...but never followed up or pursued anything. You know how kids are...theyre fucking ruthless. Especially in this day and age, when nearly everybody in the U.S. is removing the foreskin. Not doing so would be comparable to giving the kid a weird, extravagant name. I know names dont matter, and when hes older people arent gonna care. But that odd name alone is gonna be hell for that kid growing up.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: This point of view is pretty much why I started this thread. The "mutilation" debate. Like theres some satanic ritual involved while we chop your dick off with a rusty blade. I guess getting your tonsils removed could be considered mutilation too? To say youre not using the word "mutilation" in an attempt to be condescending would be a lie.
I could really care less, and hardly consider it a debate at all. My only stance on the matter is a recent conversation I had with a friend. Hes in his early 40s, uncircumcised. He missed a lot of opportunities in life, mostly to spare himself ridicule in the locker room. Hes always been the tough kid, and very athletic...but never followed up or pursued anything. You know how kids are...theyre fucking ruthless. Especially in this day and age, when nearly everybody in the U.S. is removing the foreskin. Not doing so would be comparable to giving the kid a weird, extravagant name. I know names dont matter, and when hes older people arent gonna care. But that odd name alone is gonna be hell for that kid growing up.
But.. it's not comparable to removing the tonsils really. Although I would consider that a mutilation too, but it is deemed necessary by medical professionals and discussed with a consenting adult / child with consenting parents as a MEDICAL concern. The foreskin hardly ever poses any medical concern (although, to be fair, there are some cases when it is easier to remove it for medical reasons, but those cases are very few and far between).
So, to remove it from an unconsenting child because of tradition, religion or... essentially superficial cosmetic reasons is barbaric and imperialistic.
Let people make their own choices.
And.. I never had any problem in school or any time being uncircumcised. Kids can be ruthless, but not all kids (/hardly any I know) make fun of uncircumcised dicks. And plus... isn't one of the prime comebacks as a teenager to someone making a comment on your cock, "Well, you're a fucking poofta.. stop lookin' at my cock, fag!".
C'mon.. sheesh
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
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Loc: Cloud 9
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said:
Quote:
Mjau said:
Quote:
wow said: ehh its just a thing... we're all different... when it comes down to it your parents decided when you were a baby.. the only reason id do my kids like that is because im like that and i prefer it that way.. i dont know how it is the other way on the other hand.. i mean.. whatcha gon do? it is what it is....
I'm bald but I prefer it that way, so I'm going to surgically remove the hair on my babies. Whatcha gon do...
I like gauged ears, so I'll just do that too. It's not mutilation, because it's the way I prefer it. Durr hurr. 
This point of view is pretty much why I started this thread. The "mutilation" debate. Like theres some satanic ritual involved while we chop your dick off with a rusty blade. I guess getting your tonsils removed could be considered mutilation too? To say youre not using the word "mutilation" in an attempt to be condescending would be a lie.
I could really care less, and hardly consider it a debate at all. My only stance on the matter is a recent conversation I had with a friend. Hes in his early 40s, uncircumcised. He missed a lot of opportunities in life, mostly to spare himself ridicule in the locker room. Hes always been the tough kid, and very athletic...but never followed up or pursued anything. You know how kids are...theyre fucking ruthless. Especially in this day and age, when nearly everybody in the U.S. is removing the foreskin. Not doing so would be comparable to giving the kid a weird, extravagant name. I know names dont matter, and when hes older people arent gonna care. But that odd name alone is gonna be hell for that kid growing up.
so what if you were circumsized?! do you think you would be mad your parents "mutilated" your penis? or do you think it would be all normal? whats the point of this thread anyways? lol! it is what it is man! your parents decide! i think IMO that its pretty normal to be circumcised.. but who fucking cares? guys shouldnt even comment on a other guys dick in the locker room anyways... thats weird, why would somebody even look at it unless they are having sex with it? and if somebody said something like that to me id simply reply "what are you gay?" "why are you lookin at my dick?!" "faggot"... but anyways.. seriously.. this never happened when i wrestled or played football.. the person who comments degrades them self IMO simply by bringing attention to another dudes dick..
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6] 1
#14430975 - 05/10/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
So, to remove it from an unconsenting child because of tradition, religion or... essentially superficial cosmetic reasons is barbaric and imperialistic.
This is where I disagree. Ive never met a circumcised man who cursed his parents for taking his foreskin.
Quote:
And.. I never had any problem in school or any time being uncircumcised.
Maybe circumcision is less common in Australia?
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: This is where I disagree. Ive never met a circumcised man who cursed his parents for taking his foreskin.
I don't think people generally do complain - they're not really given the right or ability to, because people just presume it's normal. Hence why I think it should be a matter of choice for the individual, and not up to parents, unless there is medical concern. I'm not saying that people necessarily disagree or think it's a bad thing... I don't care either way to be honest.. circum or un. But, for that exact reason, I think it should be up to the individual to choose whether to have an unneccesary procedure on their genitalia!!
Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: Maybe circumcision is less common in Australia?
Possibly, I've no idea on the statistics.
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
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hahaha bro your 40 year old friend is a pussy
don't take conversations about life seriously with a 40 year old that still has hangups about his dick
all the women ive slept with and none of them have had a problem and a fair share said they prefer a euro dick
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Cherk] 1
#14431246 - 05/10/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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And no offense to you, but youre probably the last guy in the thread Im gonna learn anything from...
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1,260
Loc: Cloud 9
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lmao "euro dick" so i guess circumcised is a jew dick? american dick? western dick?
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 469
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14431401 - 05/10/11 07:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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My anthropology professor told us there is a tribe that has ritual circumcisions, and the purpose of it is to display the transition from boyhood into manhood and to create extremely strong ties between the tribe's male youth.
We need someone on the shroomery to take one for the team and get a circumcision. Let us know which one you liked better, you heroic motherfucker.
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: shimishimiman]
#14431480 - 05/10/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think Ive seen a documentary on that. They wait till the kids like 10 years old or something? Ouch.
Also....foreskins are sold to grow fibroblasts. Your snipped skin in helping the medical/cosmetic industry. Its a win/win
Quote:
From the fibroblasts new skin for burn victims can be grown, skin to cover diabetic ulcers, and controversially it is also used to make cosmetic creams and collagens. One foreskin can be used for decades to grow $100,000 worth of fibroblasts.
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: shimishimiman]
#14431481 - 05/10/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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i hear they use lasers now!
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14431586 - 05/10/11 07:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Lasers + My penis = Not fucking happening.
lol..
There are the odd occassion when circumcision go wrong... and the more i've learnt about it, the less I think it's a good idea at all...
(SCROLL DOWN for the Circumcision Revealed post)
And here's just one story... of circumcision gone wrong:
When my 3 yr. old ds was born, we had him circumcised. Come to find out from the pediatrician, they didn't remove enough foreskin, and so we have had to deal with it "adhering", and then needing to pull it back.
We went for his 3 yr. check up yesterday, and was told that it had stuck again. The doctor pulled the foreskin back, and ds cried. It is very red & irritated. He woke up in tears this morning telling us it hurt. He won't stay still for us to apply aquaphor. I called the dr. office to tell them this, and of course they want to see him, again.
Should I be done with this practice, get a 2nd opinion??? They told us we didn't need to have the procedure done again b/c it bothered us more than it will him. Are they right or wrong?
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1,260
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14431652 - 05/10/11 08:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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gotta get a good doctor.. if your a new parent it would be wise to ask other parents about the quality of the work.. its really done with lasers now days tho.. and i doubt it would really be that bad..
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14431671 - 05/10/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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is it hard to use condoms?! id imagine they would slide around alot?
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14431674 - 05/10/11 08:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Condoms work just the same... just the same brother..
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14431772 - 05/10/11 08:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZenXi6 said:
(SCROLL DOWN for the Circumcision Revealed post)
You do know this was just a blog/rant posted by some religious dude, and contains almost nothing medically relevant.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Pretty sure that dude is not religious at all.. considering he refers to Christians as Xtians.. a typical atheist move. And he makes valid points, particularly in this paragraph:
In rare cases, there may be beneficial effects to altering the prepuce. This depends on the condition and type of procedure, but it comes with drawbacks as well and can introduce a risk of sexual dysfunction and a lessening of satisfaction. There is a small army of adherents in the medical community that insist that it is a vital and wholly beneficial procedure and they will assert that is prevents numerous cancers and infections in the male. Many have seen it for what it is - an unnecessary and potentially harmful surgery left over from a more primitive society that today is being abused and often practiced for the wrong reasons. A heated debate has been ongoing on this matter but the American Academy of Pediatrics has concluded in recent times that there is no valid medical indication for this procedure.
The debate has been heated, and there have been various tos and fros, but overall, medical institutions are coming around and labelling it unneccessary and largely cosmetic, with few exceptions..
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432061 - 05/10/11 09:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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some uncircumcised people get a ring like piece of skin which is too small for the head of the penis to fit through.. in these cases they get cracks and rips when they get erect.. in these individuals it is quite medically necessary.. once an individual is old enough to understand surgery and getting thier dick cut for cosmetic reasons or otherwise, they are most likely to opt out because of it being a painful procedure.. you say its wrong and should be left to the individual BUT im glad my parents chose to have it done at a time in which i dont even remember it happening.. and im glad i have it done because of my personal preference.. i would think that any circumcised guy would be happy they are.. and quite a few who arent probably wish they were.. anyways, it goes all the way back to the pyramids and is deeply ingrained in our culture really.. and they say that the foreskin actually holds vaginal fluid and circumcised men are less likely to contract a std because of this reason.. heres a great artical.. they even have a part about your side of the arguement.. not that it matters because your kids will obviously not be circumcised unless your lady chooses to and you decide to.. but mine will because thats the way my whole family is.. and thats the way i think we should be 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision
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CureCat
Strangest


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Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432127 - 05/10/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wow said: some uncircumcised people get a ring like piece of skin which is too small for the head of the penis to fit through.. in these cases they get cracks and rips when they get erect.. in these individuals it is quite medically necessary..[/url]
Bringing up exceptions does not usually make for a solid argument. Your reasoning here is exactly the same as when people argue "well occasionally the procedure is botched, and the person has to live with discomfort or disfigurement for the rest of their life, so it should not be done". Both are valid points, but you shouldn't base your argument around it.
Bottom line is that there are pros AND cons to circumcision. Period. That said, I think the decision should be left up to the individual. You don't know how much less or more painful the experience is for a newborn, so arguing that it is painful as an adult is pretty ridiculous... You are amputating a body part- of course it is going to hurt- at any age.
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wow
Lurking master



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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: CureCat] 1
#14432163 - 05/10/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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didnt hurt me? im not arguing anything exept that if i have a kid its totally ok for me to have him circumcised.. its not brutality.. it wont hurt.. and it will look correct in my and many others opinion.. its the decision of the family.. purely.. it runs in my family and pretty much any circumcised man is proud of being circumcised and probably thinks its weird not to be.. i didnt even know what it was or that it had been done to me until i was at least 11-12 ish.. theres absolutely nothing wrong with doing it or not.. but im happy i am.. and there is some medical situations where it is the answer.. and yes.. trust me it would hurt alot more for an adult because they will have to live walk and function with a sore dick which i wouldnt think a baby would have to.. (i didnt feel it as far as im concerned) 
also read the wikipedia for some pros and cons
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432169 - 05/10/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude, your arguments are consistently terrible:
Quote:
wow said: some uncircumcised people get a ring like piece of skin which is too small for the head of the penis to fit through.. in these cases they get cracks and rips when they get erect.. in these individuals it is quite medically necessary.. once an individual is old enough to understand surgery and getting thier dick cut for cosmetic reasons or otherwise, they are most likely to opt out because of it being a painful procedure..
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ZenXi6 said: The debate has been heated, and there have been various tos and fros, but overall, medical institutions are coming around and labelling it unneccessary and largely cosmetic, with few exceptions..
Yep, as I've mentioned various times, there are a few cases where it is necessary. These cases are about as common as... say... getting your gall bladder removed. ie. NOT THAT COMMON.
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wow said: And im glad i have it done because of my personal preference.. i would think that any circumcised guy would be happy they are.. and quite a few who arent probably wish they were..
I would think your personal preference is probably effected by your current state. You can't really tell how you'd feel considering you aren't and have never been. The folk that aren't and wish they were, go and get it done. Don't make sweeping statements like that to presume correctness of your argument and position, and presume it is the more popular. You have no proof, and the onus of proof when making sweeping statements like that is on you.
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wow said: anyways, it goes all the way back to the pyramids and is deeply ingrained in our culture really..
What?? Dude... you skimmed over the Wikipedia article.. didn't you? Culture changes with times... Do we think that the barbaric practice of FEMALE Circumcision is ok "Coz it goes way back and is deeply ingrained in culture"? Nope.
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wow said: and they say that the foreskin actually holds vaginal fluid and circumcised men are less likely to contract a std because of this reason..
Again, not true dude.. as I said, for those who aren't retarded and now how to wash themselves, this is actually.. NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL. And the holding of vaginal fluids helps lubricate during sexual intercourse (ie. It's a good thing... derrrr)
Now, I'm not trying to say that thosew with a cirum or uncirum'd penis at the moment are any better or worse, because in the end, the differences are very small. THIS IS THE CORE OF MY ARGUMENT, SO PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION THIS TIME
BUT, for future generations, why SHOULD we circumcise, considering the pros don't outweigh the cons (unless, on the odd ocassion, there is a medical necessity), and the process is therefore a subjective and superficial cosmetic operation?? Shouldn't it THEREFORE be up to the PERSON IN QUESTION?!
Seriously. This is the argument. Skip over it again, and you win IDIOT OF THE YEAR AWARD.
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432283 - 05/10/11 10:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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lol im definitely not the IDIOT OF THE YEAR lol! neither are my parents! i will have my kids circumcised purely for cultural and aesthetic reasons.. and im sure he will thank me! and there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT!! i almost want to tell my parents thank you! lol! if your argument is that it hurts the baby or that he doesnt know what hes missing.. i assure you it doesnt hurt the baby! and he probably wont even care what he's missing!! (i sure as fuck dont!) jesus and moses were both circumcised! it just looks better to me.. and its the way my whole family is... pretty much all the girls that I have been involved with sexually said they preferred it circumcised.. and youre right i dont know how sex would be with a foreskin covering the head of my penis... could be more sensitive idk.. but id trade it for what i got... and im happy im this way.. this is why id have it done to my children.. and why my parents had it done to me obviously! now... i guess keeping it real i can say yes i think its better to be circumcised obviously and i have my reasons! but im not gonna make fun or bag on the fact that someone else isn't! i really could care less about what other peoples dicks look like.. but ill make sure my sons are circumcised and im sure they will feel the same as me! which is good! and i have a beautiful penis!
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432308 - 05/10/11 10:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZenXi6 said: Shouldn't it THEREFORE be up to the PERSON IN QUESTION?!
Seriously. This is the argument. Skip over it again, and you win IDIOT OF THE YEAR AWARD.
Ok, perhaps you don't understand this basic premis, but here it is for you, in a nice simple sentence:
BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
ie. Beauty is subjective, different to each individual. So, shouldn't an individual's own BODY'S aesthetics, be up to them to decide?
I don't even need to argue the harm-to-baby line... because you can't even rebut this argument.
In the end, it seems you're another imperialist without reason. Mark your son because "That's the way it's always been!".
Whatever man, there's no arguing with that logic, because it's illogical. Just know and remember that your imposing a (relatively) non-reversable unneccesary procedure on a non-consenting other.
At least if uncirumcised, someone can decide to get it done later in life. It's much harder to go the other way...
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432501 - 05/10/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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the point im trying to get across is that i enjoy my circumcised penis so much i want my son to enjoy his as well.. i understand you think im illogical but let me tell you.. i have absolutely NO REGRET for being circumcised... my penis is PLENTY sensitive... i dont build up "smegma" because theres no foreskin there.. in fact im SURE my kid would feel the same way.. try telling an uncircumcised adult to be circumcised and they will give you all kinds of reasons.. mainly because its involving modification of the genitals and they know it would hurt.. but the point is that a uncircumcised man would have never even started this thread in the first place saying that they are upset they were so.. or that its mutilation.. id like to go out on a limb here and say that i believe most people against it are uncircumcised.. and are from families that are uncircumcised.. i dont think youd ever hear a circumcised guy complain about being circumcised.. why make a ruckus?! you dont know what its like! but i can guarantee if you were born into a family who circumcised you when you were an infant you would not be unhappy! i have no doubt that id rather be this way especially in this day and age... and dont give me the "harm to baby" stuff trust me... my dick is very healthy and unharmed! if you prefer to be uncircumcised than dont circumcise your kids! but to all these people saying its harmfull or bad to circumcise your infant baby i say fuck off and tend your own.. (not you but there are some who try and actually protest but why?) because id rather have had it done than not and i would have been scared shitless to have it done when i could understand the fact and would have never wanted to in fear of pain... but being this way now is like i was pretty much born this way.. and i feel good about it and i like how it looks just as most circumcised guys do.. so quite honestly no.. i dont understand the harm to baby beauty of the beholder crap because the kids gonna think its fine either way obviously.. im not saying you are wrong for being uncircumcised.. but my parents never "HARMED" ME! just ask any circumcised guy.. IMO either way is fine.. but to be against one way or another is quite wrong!
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sandi
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432514 - 05/10/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, it might not "rip", but it is a sensitive area for some men who are prone to very small tears (like cuts). I know that from seeing them on my guy sometimes. Not many guys are that sensitive though so it's not a universal thing. Might also happen more as you age.
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Edited by sandi (05/22/11 05:05 AM)
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432519 - 05/10/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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IN FACT!! if i make a poll i would bet that 100% of circumcised guys would be proud of being circumcised! and 100% of uncircumcised men would say the same!! so what gives?
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432558 - 05/10/11 11:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's not wrong to be against one way or the other dude.
Again, you have ignored (for the third time) my poignant point, and made bnad arguments like "Ask any circumcised guy, they'll tell you they love it!"
Well, not being in a room where talking about penises is appropriate right now, I did a quick web scour.
So, after a very quick search, I found various websites on FORESKIN RESTORATION (and why, THE FUCK, I ask you, would people restore something if they're so goddamn happy, as you suggest, with the results?!)
Foreskin Restoration
Greg Beirise of Chicago has never quite forgiven doctors for circumcising him 32 years ago, nor his parents for requesting the procedure.
"It always bothered me," said Beirise, a Web page developer. "I just wanted to be whole."
Beirise is one of what many estimate are several thousand men in the United States and other countries who are taking back what doctors cut away at their birth.
Brought together mainly over the Internet, these men - young, retired, straight, gay, blue collar and professional - say they are growing back their foreskin, transforming themselves from circumcised to near natural in a few years for better sex, general comfort and emotional healing.
...
The American Academy of Pediatrics in 1999 reversed its support for routine infant circumcision, citing questionable benefits and medical and anecdotal evidence that circumcised men have less penile sensitivity.
It was a move welcomed by R. Wayne Griffiths of Concord, Calif. The construction engineer and his friend Tim Hammond put ads in local newspapers more than a decade ago inviting men to a support group for those hoping to restore their foreskins. The first meeting attracted 12 men, Griffiths said. And the response grew from there.
"We got 25 calls a week for the first few months," said Griffiths, a 67-year-old divorced father of five. Not bad for a subject most men were afraid to mention, he said.
Today, Griffiths says as many as 7,000 men of all descriptions have contacted him online or over the telephone about restoration. He now heads the National Organization for Restoring Men, or NORM, a group with chapters in 20 states and six countries.
Foreskin Restoration at Wikipedia
Business specialising in restoration
So... dude, your argument that tries to speak for everyone, with absolutely no statistics other than your own VERY subjective point of view, is null and void.
It may not be that different either way for those that have or haven't been TODAY, but to impose that on a child, when it should be up to THAT person, and not anyone else (UNLESS there is a health concern) is unfair, barbaric and demeaning on another's right to their own body.
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432569 - 05/10/11 11:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wow said: IN FACT!! if i make a poll i would bet that 100% of circumcised guys would be proud of being circumcised! and 100% of uncircumcised men would say the same!! so what gives?
As I have mentioned MULTIPLE times, that is NOT the argument, not the debate and we aren't talking about that.
We're talking about the right of someone to remove something from ANOTHER person based PURELY on ONE individual's aesthetics, and not letting another choose that.
How would you like it if I tattooed your freakin' forehead without your permission? OR any part of your body, for that matter?! That's a PERSONAL choice, even though it really doesn't change things one way or the other (if it's in a private spot).
The debate is about FREEDOM OVER ONE'S OWN BODY.
der
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432664 - 05/10/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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ohhh man.. lol im sure that happens every day... id be highly willing to bet that thiers HELL OF ALOT MORE people getting circumcised as an adult than getting the process reversed come on now.. im circumcised and im proud to be so.. i would definitely NOT want to have a foreskin this i know!! you are uncircumcised and you are proud to be so and would never get circumcised!! this i know!! so... that being said it was pretty much like i was born this way.. i dont remember getting circumcised.. and my family is all this way so it might as well be genetic.. no harm done AT ALL!! i want my kids to be the same way.. and they will be! theres absolutely NOTHING wrong with that dude!!
Quote:
BUT, for future generations, why SHOULD we circumcise, considering the pros don't outweigh the cons (unless, on the odd ocassion, there is a medical necessity), and the process is therefore a subjective and superficial cosmetic operation?? Shouldn't it THEREFORE be up to the PERSON IN QUESTION?!
Seriously. This is the argument. Skip over it again, and you win IDIOT OF THE YEAR AWARD.
i will circumcise because its easier to keep clean and doesnt build up stuff inside the foreskin (i know its easy to clean but still), because jesus was circumcised, because it looks better, because im proud to be circumcised, because my family is circumcised, and because i know my kid will be happy to be circumcised just as i, and BECAUSE HES MY FUCKING KID!! and im circumcised and so are all my brothers and cousins! and we have joked and talked about it enough to know that we are ALL happier this way!! so.. yeh for you you can have your opinion and i guess i cant change that so maybe its not worth the arguement.. but if its only because it looks better thats enough reason seeing that it really doesnt make much of a difference in the first place.. you make it sound like we have our dicks chopped off when really its just a small little cosmetic change involving a inch or 2 of skin that the kid will never know he's missing! and when he finds out he'll be happy that its done!
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432682 - 05/10/11 11:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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its not like a tattoo... its like it might as well be genetic.. my whole family is like this.. and I think it looks better mainly... the kid would know if he had a tattoo on his forehead.. he will never know its different being circumcised.. and once he finds out im 99.9% sure he'll be fine with it..
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432696 - 05/10/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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And, if he's not?
BTW... Jesus was circumcised? lol... good, rational argument for anything there. God-botherer.
Your rationale seems to go something like this:
"If I give my son the chance, he might decide NOT to do it! So, we gotta get in before he can even TALK to protest, or accept it! That way, he'll have a penis just like mine".
Dude, why, I ask, is it so important to you to have your son's genitals the same way as yours? It's not like you're going to be using them the rest of your life, looking at them or doing ANYTHING with them... so why in the fuck is it your damn business????
People who think they have total ownership over their children, which therefore gives them the right to do whatever the fuck they want to them.. should probably re-think that position. Your child may have been created by you and your partner.. but no body owns anybody, and people have the right to make their own choices, especially in regards to their body.
So, why do you think it's ok to force this upon another person? What gives you the right? Children are NOT property.
Cultural reasoning is freakin' stupid man, but I can't really argue against it. I just think it's real fucking rude and abusive to impose shit on another's body for "cultural" reasons.... Why not just teach him that's the way people prefer it, and then offer him the choice when he has the ability to say YES or NO? What's wrong with that??? You're probably going to indoctrinate him anyway, but at least that way he'd have the ILLUSION of decision... sheesh.
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432714 - 05/10/11 11:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wow said: its not like a tattoo... its like it might as well be genetic.. my whole family is like this.. and I think it looks better mainly... the kid would know if he had a tattoo on his forehead.. he will never know its different being circumcised.. and once he finds out im 99.9% sure he'll be fine with it..
I'm going to tattoo my child's upper inner thigh.
It might as well be genetic, coz I'm gonna get one too, and I think it looks better. He'll never know it's different, coz he'll have always have had it. I'm 99.9% sure he'll be fine with it.
I might pierce his anus while I'm at it. Coz I was thinking of doing that too.
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CureCat
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6] 2
#14432754 - 05/10/11 11:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have been following this thread and reading every post, but I just decided to stop reading anything posted by wow in this thread.
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: CureCat]
#14432760 - 05/10/11 11:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said: I have been following this thread and reading every post, but I just decided to stop reading anything posted by wow in this thread.
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432794 - 05/10/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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the FACT of the matter is that the kids gonna be happy to be either way... just so happens he was born into a family that does prefer circumcision.. and thats the way he will be! and your kids will be just fine the other way around... id just rather have it done before he can feel it.. or even know it would hurt.. and id rather him like being circumcised than not.. and id hope that he would choose to do the same with his kids because he enjoys his being that way.. which im sure he will.. i NEVER thought id be argue with somebody about this lol.. to me i never really thought about the reasons really but consider it just something thats just gotta be done.. id never even tell him he was circumcised and id let him figure it out on his own.. and he wouldnt even know the difference until that day and he would surely be happy his parents decided for him looking at it.. i sure was.. the first time i saw a uncircumcised penis i remember thinking to myself how odd it looked to me.. the reason i wanted the poll is because your argument is that the kid could possibly regret the fact later on down the road and i want to prove to you this is NOT true! in fact i believe its more of a common issue the other way around! say i told my 6 year old son and he wanted to be circumcised but he decided not to in fear of the pain.. this would be a terrible thing! so why not just do it and let him figure it out on his own and he'll never even think about going back? he was "born that way" and it will be fine... no harm done.. and when he sees someone with foreskin he'll think "whats up with that?" and be happy.. and the kid with the foreskin can say he looks odd without it as well.. and at the same time neither one of them give a shit and both think thiers is better.. which is fine.. which is how and why theres a pattern or "culture" behind either way...
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: CureCat]
#14432815 - 05/11/11 12:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said: I have been following this thread and reading every post, but I just decided to stop reading anything posted by wow in this thread.
good for you!
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432845 - 05/11/11 12:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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oh come on dude.. your gonna rate me because of my opinions?! thats so immature.. i was enjoying this argument too! i did nothing to you and never tried to insult you.. im not even gonna fire the rating gun back dude because its just a heated argument man.. and i could probably make you loose a whole shroom if i did.. id hope you would retract that... but anyways all im trying to say is its fine to be either way and its not wrong to circumcise your own baby for your own reasons whatever they are.. the jewish community does it for religious reasons.. if you dont like it then just dont do it but dont tell me my parents were harming me and jacking me up as an infant because its 100% totally not true!
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432852 - 05/11/11 12:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't mean to offend, the whole ratings system is meant to give other Shroomerites an idea of opinion, I based mine on fair reasoning - I find your stance toward other's rights to their own bodies imperialistic and indoctrinating.
This is the sort of thought that needs to be stamped out of the human population. As I said, if it's a cultural concern of yours, teach your kid that way and they'll no doubt want to get it done. I still think that's indoctrination, but at least you'd give them (some) choice, or the illusion of choice.
By removing choice from another human being over what to do with their own body, in a (relatively) irreversible way, you are enforcing a value on to them, in this case - a superficial aesthetic value of beauty.
You haven't argued this point, you just keep saying, "He's my son, and I never knew about it, and I like it, so he'll like it!". That's not bloody good reasoning at all. You ignored any good debate in this, hence the rating.
I can revoke if it matters that much to you. I don't mind and I don't want to upset you over this. But it is meant for others.
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432877 - 05/11/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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i just dont dig a bad rating for arguing a point man.. rate as you choose but i find nothing wrong with people having thier opinions on things.. and yes i do mainly like the way that it looks and yes it is the main reason i choose to have my opinion.. and i do believe the look of it is the only real difference.. you cant tell me its like 100X better to have not been circumcised.. and i assure you its not mutilation and harmfull.. i guess the fact is that im "indoctrinating" him into this to some extent.. but so was i and im totally fine with it! which is the main point im trying to get across.. the point that its ok to agree to dissagree.. but to each his own.. theres no reason to be mad at me for circumcising my own children... and i believe my children will be fine with it just like i am...
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ZenXi6
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432886 - 05/11/11 12:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Faaarrrkkk...
dude....
Like I said. SO MANY TIMES.
I don't give a shit if you're circumcised or not, there isn't a huge difference between the two.
I've been trying to debate the pros and cons of circumcising someone without their permission / before they have the ability to give permission. That is where the discussion lays.
You don't seem capable of separating these two things.
You may be totally fine with it, but you can't predict that someone else would be! Therefore, you should leave it up to them. I proved that there is at least ONE person out there in the whole world that was circumcised and didn't like it. Considering there is no objective reasoning to do it or not, that ONE PERSON should be reason enough to GIVE AN INDIVIDUAL THE CHOICE, rather than force a medical procedure on someone.
Don't PRESUME consent in someone. You may be horribly shocked one day when your son says "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?".
Perhaps trends will change and girls will think his penis is a freak-cock... you just don't know. So leave it up to him dude.
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14432913 - 05/11/11 12:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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i agree to dissagree... plus understand i was raised in a totally different setting than you.. so its fine for you to think that and you will have no problems arguing that point all day long.. its a matter of opinion and such a small cosmetic difference that it will ultimately make no difference to him at all.. and i do firmly believe that my boys will have no problem with my decisions... if you were circumcised to begin with you might be able to understand.. but the truth is we are both different because of this reason and will obviously never agree... but the fact of the matter is im gonna do what i do... and so are you... everyones different.. i could care less if you tattoo your kids forehead when hes born.. im not gonna do it to my kid because I think its wrong...
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wow
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432922 - 05/11/11 12:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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i had fun arguing tho.. but i think ive said my stance too many times... its how i was raised and i surely was raised right! which doesnt mean you were raised wrong of course! cherry oh mate!
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CureCat
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14432945 - 05/11/11 12:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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This thread sucks. What a bunch of noise.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14433062 - 05/11/11 01:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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LOL just post your dicks already 
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I_was_the_walrus
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14433168 - 05/11/11 02:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Don't PRESUME consent in someone. You may be horribly shocked one day when your son says "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?".
The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth. "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?"
Yes, Im exaggerating. But I feel when you say that, I hope you understand the shoe could easily be worn on the other foot.
Im on the fence either way, and personally dont think its even a big deal. Pros, cons, cut, uncut..I am the way I am, and I really dont care . Things are the way they are I guess. It wasnt my idea, so dont get mad at me.
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wow
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said:
Quote:
Don't PRESUME consent in someone. You may be horribly shocked one day when your son says "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?".
The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth. "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?"
Yes, Im exaggerating. But I feel when you say that, I hope you understand the shoe could easily be worn on the other foot.
Im on the fence either way, and personally dont think its even a big deal. Pros, cons, cut, uncut..I am the way I am, and I really dont care . Things are the way they are I guess. It wasnt my idea, so dont get mad at me.
haha man we had an epic arguement all day today while you were gone!
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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow] 2
#14433205 - 05/11/11 02:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It was NOT epic. It was lame and retarded.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I find the whole circumcision debate to mirror the debate over eating meat. It's one of those things that some cultures do that doesn't necessarily have the most rational justification, but gets some people furious and indignant, and insisting that it must be stopped at all costs.
My response: meh
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14433208 - 05/11/11 02:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah man I perused most of it. It was like 2 one legged guys in an ass kicking contest. Thats kinda how these arguments usually end up...
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth. "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?"
One is an objective difference, while one is subjective. You can't presume feelings in someone, you wait till they feel a certain way, THEN they can act on that.
It's pretty hard to choose whether you want to be circum or not, if someone already decided it for you.
I don't really understand how you guys miss this vital point... once it's done, it's MUCH harder to undo, than if someone DECIDES to have it done to their body.
You are presuming objective rights over another's body...
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14436264 - 05/11/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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That doesn't really say much. It's much harder to get circumcised later in life, than to have absolutely no memory of the newborn operation.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14436273 - 05/11/11 06:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said: That doesn't really say much. It's much harder to get circumcised later in life, than to have absolutely no memory of the newborn operation.
But, perhaps that's for good reason? Perhaps because, if people had the choice, they would choose not to.
der.
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14436376 - 05/11/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZenXi6 said:
But, perhaps that's for good reason? Perhaps because, if people had the choice, they would choose not to.
der.
People do choose later in life to do so.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Yep. So let's leave them to choose, rather than enfore something relatively irreversible on the, hmm?
There aren't many things at all that you would agree are OK to do to the body of a child, because it's your wish, regardless of their own future desires.
It just seems that people don't even think about what circumcision means... they just do it coz "It looks normal" (subjective) and "It's always been done" (appeals to tradition are not justification for ANY ACTION EVER).
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Lennyk
D-O-L-E Dole


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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This seems like a luxury argument to have. Considering the bombardment of media/marketing messages that exist now in days, good luck raising any kid that is completely happy with themselves. My body building friends are depressed, my fat ass friends are depressed, my druggie friends are depressed, my 'normal' friends are depressed. They all have their reasons, but they all don't feel 'good enough'. I really don't think they even care if they are circumsized or not. The vast and expansive knowledge of providing for a child (a planned one) to allow for their best potential in life could be one that would take smart people decades to learn. There is sooooo much. This big hub bub is fine, but don't neglect far bigger issues.
-------------------- Stealth Lighting Cubensis benefits beyond cluster headaches Mush Extract! (You can even use Vinegar!) Flame your needle in style with a sexy mini butane torch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What happens in the Romper Room, stays in the Romper Room. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All posts are written by the sex deprived helper monkey Curious George.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Lennyk]
#14436479 - 05/11/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think anyone's negelecting those issues... it's just that, when you debate a topic, the whole point is to minimise the scope of debate, so that it doesn't just turn in to a dicussion of life, the Universe and Everything, and everytime we're discussing whether fast food is healthy occassionally or not, we're also talking about an African Tribe's starvation problems....
or whatever.
My point is, that this is a debate about whether or not it's appropriate to circumcise unconsenting human beings or not.
It's not a debate about the person's feelings (because, god knows what someone will feel later!), nor a debate about which is better once it's already done (pros and cons either way.. I prefer mine un, others prefer there's snipped).
The debate is - Should that subjective choice be allowed to be decided by someone who ISN'T the owner of the body in question?
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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fall
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 595
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6] 1
#14436527 - 05/11/11 07:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm circumcised, and obviously not pissed about it - I never had the chance to try it out before it got snipped. So its really a null argument, and that bothers me more than not having a foreskin by itself... I just don't think its reasonable that someone decided for me that my dick should be surgically altered when I was weeks old or whenever they did it... really. My kids are definitely not getting circumcised, I just don't get the point.
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1,260
Loc: Cloud 9
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: fall]
#14438345 - 05/12/11 01:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Edited by wow (05/12/11 01:56 AM)
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: fall]
#14438355 - 05/12/11 01:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fall said: I'm circumcised, and obviously not pissed about it - I never had the chance to try it out before it got snipped. So its really a null argument, and that bothers me more than not having a foreskin by itself... I just don't think its reasonable that someone decided for me that my dick should be surgically altered when I was weeks old or whenever they did it... really. My kids are definitely not getting circumcised, I just don't get the point.

And wow - with that in mind, don't you think that given there is a possibility your son might NOT appreciate such a personal decision being made for him, you might give HIM that choice?
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Anonymous #2
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14438418 - 05/12/11 02:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The foreskin totally can rip. Trust me. Ow.
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fall
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/08
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14439723 - 05/12/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Step 1 - go to a doctor, get some anesthetic Step 2 - have foreskin removed, spend a few weeks healing.
Step 3 - successful adult decision made.
I'm not religious, why should I impose religious traditions on my chillin's because societal norms tell me to?
edit - might have misinterpreted your reply, so sorry if this reply sounds dickish (puns ftw)
Edited by fall (05/12/11 11:28 AM)
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TimmiT


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria
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Circumcision is actually banned in all public hospitals in Australia. Says something about its validity
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4runner


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: TimmiT]
#14440402 - 05/12/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cause the government is always right
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SillyMe
alone



Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 278
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth.
While circ'd boys may still be the majority, it's not by a great margin anymore:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285540/circumcision_rates_fall_in_the_united.html?cat=25
As a mother I don't believe it's my right to remove a part of my sons anatomy without his consent.
-------------------- Oh, wind and rain they haunt me. Look to the North and pray. Send me, please, his kisses. Send them home today. I'm begging, Jesus, please. Send his love to me.
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TimmiT


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: 4runner]
#14444309 - 05/13/11 08:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
anunnakian said: Cause the government is always right 
The move was supported by the medical community
-------------------- "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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limestoneman
The Return


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 1,997
Loc: Middle TN
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: TimmiT]
#14445149 - 05/13/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm cut, but sometimes I wish they gave me a little more slack, I get so hard my skin feels like it's gonna rip sometimes.
Edited by limestoneman (05/13/11 11:50 AM)
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4runner


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: limestoneman]
#14445242 - 05/13/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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That is weird to me, I am circumcised but have plenty of skin. I don't need lube for jackn'.
TimmiT, I was trying to be a bit sarcastic, sorry.
I find the whole debate a little odd to me especially when the government gets involved. Sure if I ever had a boy I wouldn't send em over to scissor hands but that is me.
I also don't get the folks that are so hung up about not having there foreskin, makes absolutely no since to me, I mean unless it was a botched job.
Then again I think braces (for the teeth) are fairly barbaric and mostly unnecessary. Just another form of torture you bring upon a kid that that really can't say no. Oh and piercing baby ears.
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Joolz


Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 3,614
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: 4runner]
#14447011 - 05/13/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Braces are healthy, you should fix your children's teeth. I am cut, and enjoy it. I'd probably cut my son as well. Some people think that its the kid's choice, but at that age, its my choice.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Joolz]
#14452545 - 05/14/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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> but at that age, its my choice.
And when you are old and feeble, it will be his choice to put you in a nursing home and to forget about you.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Joolz


Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 3,614
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Seuss]
#14452555 - 05/14/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > but at that age, its my choice.
And when you are old and feeble, it will be his choice to put you in a nursing home and to forget about you.
Yes, I realize this. I didn't even call my mother for mother's day. I'm not gonna freak out when my family ditches me (if I even have one) because I've pretty much already ditched my lame-o family.
Besides, I'd off myself before I became a burden on others.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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Aser
("")(-.-)("")




Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 2,814
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Joolz]
#14453535 - 05/14/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Joolz said: Besides, I'd off myself before I became a burden on others.
I would consider having someone's penis sliced counting as being a burden.
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Joolz


Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 3,614
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Aser]
#14453681 - 05/14/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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A little trim around the edges, as it were.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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Apostle
Philanthropist



Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 31,501
Loc: FL
Last seen: 1 year, 22 days
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: yogabunny]
#14453696 - 05/14/11 09:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said:
Quote:
CandyGirl said: I've never been with a guy who was uncircumcised but it wouldn't matter to me if a guy I like is. I don't have a preference  I wonder if it feels any different...
it feels really really REALLY good. there's a movement there that's almost like a natural lubricant.
i love uncircumcised!
i can tell when im in there that it feels better
My girl has had way bigger cack than mine and keeps comin back for a reason, i was also her first ncircumsied
my cock is a decent size tho so when i pull backthe foreskin it will stay back and i can fuck as if i were circumsised(i imagine), the motion with the skin over and sliding is better tho
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Black_Sunset
Amateur Anesthesiologist


Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 2,451
Loc: Somewhere California
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Apostle]
#14454117 - 05/14/11 11:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I didn't read everything, but according to an ex who is European, guys there are like 50/50, where as over here in the states it's like almost all circumcised....
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