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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14433168 - 05/11/11 02:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Don't PRESUME consent in someone. You may be horribly shocked one day when your son says "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?".
The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth. "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?"
Yes, Im exaggerating. But I feel when you say that, I hope you understand the shoe could easily be worn on the other foot.
Im on the fence either way, and personally dont think its even a big deal. Pros, cons, cut, uncut..I am the way I am, and I really dont care . Things are the way they are I guess. It wasnt my idea, so dont get mad at me.
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1,260
Loc: Cloud 9
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said:
Quote:
Don't PRESUME consent in someone. You may be horribly shocked one day when your son says "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?".
The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth. "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?"
Yes, Im exaggerating. But I feel when you say that, I hope you understand the shoe could easily be worn on the other foot.
Im on the fence either way, and personally dont think its even a big deal. Pros, cons, cut, uncut..I am the way I am, and I really dont care . Things are the way they are I guess. It wasnt my idea, so dont get mad at me.
haha man we had an epic arguement all day today while you were gone!
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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow] 2
#14433205 - 05/11/11 02:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It was NOT epic. It was lame and retarded.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I find the whole circumcision debate to mirror the debate over eating meat. It's one of those things that some cultures do that doesn't necessarily have the most rational justification, but gets some people furious and indignant, and insisting that it must be stopped at all costs.
My response: meh
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: wow]
#14433208 - 05/11/11 02:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah man I perused most of it. It was like 2 one legged guys in an ass kicking contest. Thats kinda how these arguments usually end up...
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth. "Daddy, why is my penis different to other boys?"
One is an objective difference, while one is subjective. You can't presume feelings in someone, you wait till they feel a certain way, THEN they can act on that.
It's pretty hard to choose whether you want to be circum or not, if someone already decided it for you.
I don't really understand how you guys miss this vital point... once it's done, it's MUCH harder to undo, than if someone DECIDES to have it done to their body.
You are presuming objective rights over another's body...
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14436264 - 05/11/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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That doesn't really say much. It's much harder to get circumcised later in life, than to have absolutely no memory of the newborn operation.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14436273 - 05/11/11 06:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said: That doesn't really say much. It's much harder to get circumcised later in life, than to have absolutely no memory of the newborn operation.
But, perhaps that's for good reason? Perhaps because, if people had the choice, they would choose not to.
der.
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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I_was_the_walrus
eggshells



Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 11,887
Loc: next door
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14436376 - 05/11/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZenXi6 said:
But, perhaps that's for good reason? Perhaps because, if people had the choice, they would choose not to.
der.
People do choose later in life to do so.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Yep. So let's leave them to choose, rather than enfore something relatively irreversible on the, hmm?
There aren't many things at all that you would agree are OK to do to the body of a child, because it's your wish, regardless of their own future desires.
It just seems that people don't even think about what circumcision means... they just do it coz "It looks normal" (subjective) and "It's always been done" (appeals to tradition are not justification for ANY ACTION EVER).
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Lennyk
D-O-L-E Dole


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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This seems like a luxury argument to have. Considering the bombardment of media/marketing messages that exist now in days, good luck raising any kid that is completely happy with themselves. My body building friends are depressed, my fat ass friends are depressed, my druggie friends are depressed, my 'normal' friends are depressed. They all have their reasons, but they all don't feel 'good enough'. I really don't think they even care if they are circumsized or not. The vast and expansive knowledge of providing for a child (a planned one) to allow for their best potential in life could be one that would take smart people decades to learn. There is sooooo much. This big hub bub is fine, but don't neglect far bigger issues.
-------------------- Stealth Lighting Cubensis benefits beyond cluster headaches Mush Extract! (You can even use Vinegar!) Flame your needle in style with a sexy mini butane torch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What happens in the Romper Room, stays in the Romper Room. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All posts are written by the sex deprived helper monkey Curious George.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: Lennyk]
#14436479 - 05/11/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think anyone's negelecting those issues... it's just that, when you debate a topic, the whole point is to minimise the scope of debate, so that it doesn't just turn in to a dicussion of life, the Universe and Everything, and everytime we're discussing whether fast food is healthy occassionally or not, we're also talking about an African Tribe's starvation problems....
or whatever.
My point is, that this is a debate about whether or not it's appropriate to circumcise unconsenting human beings or not.
It's not a debate about the person's feelings (because, god knows what someone will feel later!), nor a debate about which is better once it's already done (pros and cons either way.. I prefer mine un, others prefer there's snipped).
The debate is - Should that subjective choice be allowed to be decided by someone who ISN'T the owner of the body in question?
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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fall
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 595
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6] 1
#14436527 - 05/11/11 07:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm circumcised, and obviously not pissed about it - I never had the chance to try it out before it got snipped. So its really a null argument, and that bothers me more than not having a foreskin by itself... I just don't think its reasonable that someone decided for me that my dick should be surgically altered when I was weeks old or whenever they did it... really. My kids are definitely not getting circumcised, I just don't get the point.
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1,260
Loc: Cloud 9
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: fall]
#14438345 - 05/12/11 01:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Edited by wow (05/12/11 01:56 AM)
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: fall]
#14438355 - 05/12/11 01:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fall said: I'm circumcised, and obviously not pissed about it - I never had the chance to try it out before it got snipped. So its really a null argument, and that bothers me more than not having a foreskin by itself... I just don't think its reasonable that someone decided for me that my dick should be surgically altered when I was weeks old or whenever they did it... really. My kids are definitely not getting circumcised, I just don't get the point.

And wow - with that in mind, don't you think that given there is a possibility your son might NOT appreciate such a personal decision being made for him, you might give HIM that choice?
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Anonymous #2
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14438418 - 05/12/11 02:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The foreskin totally can rip. Trust me. Ow.
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fall
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 595
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: ZenXi6]
#14439723 - 05/12/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Step 1 - go to a doctor, get some anesthetic Step 2 - have foreskin removed, spend a few weeks healing.
Step 3 - successful adult decision made.
I'm not religious, why should I impose religious traditions on my chillin's because societal norms tell me to?
edit - might have misinterpreted your reply, so sorry if this reply sounds dickish (puns ftw)
Edited by fall (05/12/11 11:28 AM)
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TimmiT


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria
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Circumcision is actually banned in all public hospitals in Australia. Says something about its validity
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4runner


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
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Re: The ol foreskin debate, continued... [Re: TimmiT]
#14440402 - 05/12/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cause the government is always right
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SillyMe
alone



Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 278
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Quote:
I_was_the_walrus said: The same could be said about not circumcising. Sure you could assume he'll be fine growing up and nobodys gonna make fun of his penis, but in a country/state/society where the majority is circumcised, by not doing so you may inadvertently be cursing him with a tortured youth.
While circ'd boys may still be the majority, it's not by a great margin anymore:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285540/circumcision_rates_fall_in_the_united.html?cat=25
As a mother I don't believe it's my right to remove a part of my sons anatomy without his consent.
-------------------- Oh, wind and rain they haunt me. Look to the North and pray. Send me, please, his kisses. Send them home today. I'm begging, Jesus, please. Send his love to me.
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