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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinezoomfan
doubt 'er
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Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 505
Loc: eastern Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
the ultimate mystery
    #14425162 - 05/09/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

probably the most perplexing question ive ever grappled with, is why were there even conditions for a big bang to happen? basically how did something come from nothing? it seemslike at some point there had to be absolute nothingness, like not even a big open space full of nothingness but just the complete absence of anything. so how could anything have ever come out of this? almost everybody ive ever talked about this just automatically turns into a robot and you can watch their coping mechanisms pull them away from it. i think this is the most important question of all though, how can you have any beliefs at all if the most fundemental question hasnt been answered? every belief hinges on the universe being a cause and effect machine, but this may not be the case at all, we may be looking at things all wrong.

this to me is the most beautiful god damn mystery of all, to ponder how this complex universe came to be out of nothingness, i remember somebody posted about einsteins quote that the universe seems to be an intelligence or  spirit, no fucking wonder all the great minds have said similar things, from an ineffable nothingness to all of this, why did it start? why does it seem to be producing more refined and intelligent configurations? what are the laws which govern this universal evolution. does the universe exist statically or is it just human sensory perception which captures a snapshot of an infinitely fluctuating sea of potential energy?

it is my opinion that forming a belief in the face of this fundemental mystery is one of the most arrogant things a human being can do. i call myself an atheist, but to me being an atheist is just the best way i can explain that i dont have beliefs. in my experience if you can remain in this mystery, life becomes less mundane, the little things stop meaning more than is healthy, the fear of death is replaced by an intense gratitude(to no one) for life. i often found it helped to imagine just being born into this moment from nothingness as if you had never seen the world before, its just so fucking amazing and we overlook it every second of the day.


--------------------
Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
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Re: the ultimate mystery [Re: zoomfan]
    #14425210 - 05/09/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i dont have beliefs




Do you really believe this?


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: the ultimate mystery [Re: zoomfan]
    #14425303 - 05/09/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zoomfan said:
probably the most perplexing question ive ever grappled with, is why were there even conditions for a big bang to happen? basically how did something come from nothing?


Why do you assume that it came from nothing?


Quote:

zoomfan said:
it seemslike at some point there had to be absolute nothingness, like not even a big open space full of nothingness but just the complete absence of anything.


So what evidence do you have for this?


Quote:

zoomfan said:
so how could anything have ever come out of this?


It's possible (and IMO more likely) that our universe emerged from some existent phenomenon.


Quote:

zoomfan said:
i often found it helped to imagine just being born into this moment from nothingness as if you had never seen the world before, its just so fucking amazing and we overlook it every second of the day.


What do you mean by "we"? :undecided:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezoomfan
doubt 'er
Male

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 505
Loc: eastern Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: the ultimate mystery [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #14425338 - 05/09/11 04:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Quote:

i dont have beliefs




Do you really believe this?




good point, semanticly hard to defend becuase everything i said would sound like a belief even if it were a lack of belief.

i should clarify, i dont believe anything, i accept things as reasonable theories if they seem so, but to believe something and to agree with the logic of an opinion is a big difference and i its my opinion that beliefs should be terminated and should be replaced with plastic opinions.


--------------------
Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
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Re: the ultimate mystery [Re: zoomfan]
    #14425397 - 05/09/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Coming from nothing" is the same as "always existing."


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Offlinezoomfan
doubt 'er
Male

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 505
Loc: eastern Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: the ultimate mystery [Re: Poid]
    #14425517 - 05/09/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zoomfan said:
probably the most perplexing question ive ever grappled with, is why were there even conditions for a big bang to happen? basically how did something come from nothing?


Why do you assume that it came from nothing?

i dont believe it comes from nothing but it doesnt seem logical to me that it came from an existent phenomenon, ill explain that later in the post and until someone presents with a better theory or i think of one myself, im more comfortable with that assumption.


Quote:

zoomfan said:
it seems like at some point there had to be absolute nothingness, like not even a big open space full of nothingness but just the complete absence of anything.


So what evidence do you have for this? just the theory of cause and effect and reducing it down to the prime cause.


Quote:

zoomfan said:
so how could anything have ever come out of this?


It's possible (and IMO more likely) that our universe emerged from some existent phenomenon.

how is it possible? where did that existent phenomenon come from, why does it exist? i agree its possible just not logical. following logic one thing must come from another i agree, but when it comes to a first cause it is illogical to say that something existed without a cause, it doesnt address how that existing phenomenon came to be in the first place. its like someone answering the question, where did god come from, with, he just is haha.

Quote:

zoomfan said:
i often found it helped to imagine just being born into this moment from nothingness as if you had never seen the world before, its just so fucking amazing and we overlook it every second of the day.


What do you mean by "we"? :undecided:




you often ask what i mean by we, i mean human beings, id really like to know what you mean? i cant tell if your world view is sort of solipcistic or if your just meaning that im being pressumptuous by saying we, if its the latter, i sort of agree but to be honest its not a point worth debating imo.

Or maybe its because i often argue there is no self, if this is the case, then i think your confusing what i mean by no self, i dont mean that the human being doesnt exist with thoughts personality etc, all im saying is there isnt any reality to the idea that the human being exists as a package, separate from the rest of the universe, thoughts exist, feelings exist, language exists, sensations exist, the body exists, but they dont belong to anything, they exist no differently than a rock exists, the idea that there is a central "me" is just an oversimplification just an easy way to categorize what appears.


--------------------
Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: the ultimate mystery [Re: zoomfan]
    #14425610 - 05/09/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zoomfan said:
you often ask what i mean by we, i mean human beings...


Ah, so you think you know what every single human being overlooks every second of the day? :levitate:


Quote:

zoomfan said:
...id really like to know what you mean? i cant tell if your world view is sort of solipcistic or if your just meaning that im being pressumptuous by saying we, if its the latter, i sort of agree but to be honest its not a point worth debating imo.


Yes, highly presumptuous. :thumbup:


Quote:

zoomfan said:
Or maybe its because i often argue there is no self, if this is the case, then i think your confusing what i mean by no self, i dont mean that the human being doesnt exist with thoughts personality etc, all im saying is there isnt any reality to the idea that the human being exists as a package, separate from the rest of the universe, thoughts exist, feelings exist, language exists, sensations exist, the body exists, but they dont belong to anything, they exist no differently than a rock exists, the idea that there is a central "me" is just an oversimplification just an easy way to categorize what appears.


:andyistic:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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