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OfflineTheCreampie
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14409789 - 05/06/11 11:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

When you go to the doctor he will probably send you to some kind of hospital or a specialist to get a Polysomnograph (sleep study) they will put all kinds of wires over your body, particulary your head. Its just to determine what exactly the thing that is keeping you from sleeping is whether it be anxiety or restless leg syndrome. From there they will know what to prescribe you. Careful with just settling with benzos, some people become dependent on them.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: TheCreampie]
    #14410591 - 05/06/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Better make sure your insurance covers it or it will cost an arm and a leg. It rarely helps anyway. The patient comes in and says "I have to keep moving my legs because they keep bothering me, plus i have anxiety" $10,000 of tests later the doc says "we have some more tests but your insurance ran out. You have rls and anxiety, here is your prescription" Which he could have done when the patient first came in. But he gets a kickback from the specialists.

I didn't bother with any of that and now i have several things that help a lot and they cost me very little plus no doctor visit.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinemrgibblet
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: TheCreampie]
    #14411004 - 05/06/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TheCreampie said:
When you go to the doctor he will probably send you to some kind of hospital or a specialist to get a Polysomnograph (sleep study) they will put all kinds of wires over your body, particulary your head. Its just to determine what exactly the thing that is keeping you from sleeping is whether it be anxiety or restless leg syndrome. From there they will know what to prescribe you. Careful with just settling with benzos, some people become dependent on them.



My mother actually had a sleep study done on her a long time ago for not being able to sleep.

I say fuck that, I'm not going to let my doctor make me do a sleep study. I wouldn't be able to sleep with wires attached to me, and I don't have ENOUGH TIME for that. I need to do good on my exams in college that are coming up, so far not being able to sleep has tanked alot of my shit, my averages in college went down the shitter just because of this fucking problem.
I need to tell my doctor that I HAVE to have something to help me sleep ASAP or else it will seriously jeopardize my college career more than it already has.

I hope he understands. The faggot already screwed up by giving me ropinirole. My RLS never bothered me. Not being able to fall asleep bothers me. And I'm positive that it's caused by anxiety, and my sleep problem has even worstened since I had been prescribed this medicine because it doesnt work, and paying out the ass for medicine that doesn't work only increases my stress, making it even harder for me to sleep.

This is such a shitty situation.
It's so bad that sometimes I even wish I wasn't alive... just so that I never have to try and fall asleep again. It's getting pretty depressing...


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:whoyougonnacall:
"Anxiety doesn't exist. It's just your inner brain telling you that you're a pussy."

jokes

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OfflineNova

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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: mrgibblet]
    #14411075 - 05/06/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Discipline your mind? Everybody's mind wants to race at night, you have to learn to shut it down. Look into some zen meditation, which is just a fancy word for focusing on your breathing (counting breaths helps) and nothing else. Make it your number one priority to recognize when your thoughts start going and just let them drift off and get back to counting breaths.

I guarantee this will work 100% of the time every night to get you asleep becuase i've done it ever night for years. I usually 'let' myself think for 10-30min just to wind-up and reflect on the day then I have to tell myself 'alright its time to turn off and go to bed' and i'm out before i know it.

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OfflineTheCreampie
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Nova]
    #14411202 - 05/06/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds like you have some chronic sleep deprivation. Id get those meds ASAP.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: mrgibblet]
    #14411268 - 05/06/11 04:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Mrg, you are like the guy whose car is stuck in the mud and his wheels are spinning. Pressing harder on the gas pedal is not going to do any good no matter how many times it worked for other people. You have to try something different. You can pay off the docs and hope they give you something good but if you get a stubborn nut for a doc, you are sunk. He may insist on something that won't help. Tricyclic antidepressants, tca's, in low doses work very well for insomnia. Some docs know about it and some are against it. Benzos are a bad and dangerous path. But you have to make your own mistakes to learn. Good luck.

Nova, that is a good idea. Progressively relaxing your body and focusing on something like your breath does help. I use it every night. But by itself it no longer works. Some people just need chemical help. Even with the help i use the relaxation or i could stay awake anyway.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleP-O
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14411287 - 05/06/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

3 things that put me out...

-Marijuana (indica ftw)
-exercise (puts me in a deep sleep )
-melatonin (take in 45 mins before bed time).  (always puts me out, add weed for 2x effect)

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Offlinemrgibblet
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: P-O]
    #14416692 - 05/07/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Not even alcohol can put me to sleep.

I got fairly drunk last night and laid in bed with my girl all night. I couldnt sleep so I rubbed her back from like 4 to 7 am then tried to sleep. but instead just laid there until 1pm once my girl got up


I need some sort of fucking benzos or seditives, maybe tranquilizers. This is bad, I'm positive something to relieve stress would help me pass out though.
Weed works, but my tolerance level is way too high to get high enough to fall asleep with ease.

I forced myself to exercise ALOT today.. Because I skateboard alot. I haven't slept in at least 3 days, completely exhausted, but I forced myself to skate for a good 3 hours today. Got so sweaty its crazy.
And I'm still pretty sure I won't fall asleep tonight =/


--------------------
:whoyougonnacall:
"Anxiety doesn't exist. It's just your inner brain telling you that you're a pussy."

jokes

Edited by mrgibblet (05/07/11 09:37 PM)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: mrgibblet]
    #14418687 - 05/08/11 09:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Pay attention this time. TCA's in small doses do just what you want. They not only make you very sleepy but they relieve anxiety and even reduce depression. Good ones i've used are quetiapine, trazodone, gabapentin and doxepin. Oxcarbazapine worked a little. Some of those are dirt cheap if you get them in generic form. I've ordered amitryptiline which i've heard is good but have not tested it yet. That, quetiapine and doxepin are the cheapest and work well. They all have brand names which are different. Side effects include feeling groggy the next morning.

They are all prescription but if you bug the doc he will probably prescribe some. Be sure to say you want generic. If you know someone who has a supply you can try them out first.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineLuv2shrOOm
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14422442 - 05/08/11 11:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

RLS sucks and i've never takin anything for it, keeps me up too. i haven't been able to sleep for a few weeks neither. i cut back on boozing and weed alot, i figure it'd be better for me, not the case. however, spending an hour on here reading has helped a little bit. i excercise too but reading works my brain more which pretty much gets me sleepy.


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"To alcohol, the cause of AND solution to...all life's problems"          -Homer Simpson-

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Luv2shrOOm]
    #14423173 - 05/09/11 05:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

GHB
Xyrem

Other then that -> Healthy diët, movement in your life/work out, melatonin, sunshine, sex

GHB and Sleep

    One must wonder what the FDA would think if they knew of all the people who take this hazardous "party drug" and don't even stay awake to notice the effects. GHB is an excellent tranquilizer, and is unique in its freedom from the side effects of more traditional drugs.. Before going into the specifics of its use, let me address the specifics of this heady claim:

    The most commonly used sedative drugs today are the benzodiazepenes (notably Valium) and alcohol. Occasionally the barbiturates (eg, Librium) are still used, but I will not discuss them here. Their negative effects are similar to those of the benzodiazepenes, but generally more severe.

Overdose Potential

    Tranquilizers have a somewhat sordid image in our culture. Their use in suicides doubtless plays a large role in this. Both alcohol and the benzodiazepenes create a general body-wide depression of activity, including respiration. People who lethally overdose generally die because they simply stopped breathing[156].
    GHB brings about sleep by a mechanism which, while poorly understood, is much closer to the body's natural process. Breathing and pulse are no more reduced than they are in normally sleeping people (breaths per minute may decrease, but oxygen intake is unaffected). High doses may make sleep deeper, to the point of unarousability, but once the GHB is metabolized subjects awaken unharmed[151].

Sleep Quality

    Everyone knows that alcohol will put users out, but this is a highly unnatural substitute for real sleep. Rapid Eye Movement sleep (REM), the stage at which dreaming occurs, is heavily suppressed, as is Slow Wave Sleep (SWS), the "deepest" and most relaxed phase. Regular REM is vital to psychological stability, and may be involved in the consolidation and organization of memory as well. SWS is the only time during which certain biological processes take place, such as the secretion of growth hormone. Proper growth hormone levels are necessary for good health, and reductions have been linked to many of the destructive effects of aging[20].
    The benzodiazepenes, while less severe, have the same effects. After an initial low period, REM may return to normal[156].
    GHB induces a sleep that is entirely natural. The duration and organization of the sleep stages is preserved, and growth hormone release is actually increased[20]. In fact, abnormal sleep patterns like those of narcoleptics* and insomniacs* become more typical[77]. While users of other tranquilizers may be difficult to awaken, GHB users (at low doses) remain completely responsive to ordinary stimulus, from pain to bladder pressure[4].

Hangover*

    Alcohol's well-known hangover is created by many factors, including toxic metabolites, dehydration, and the brain's own opponent processes (hangover can be seen as a foretaste of withdrawal, should the sufferer become addicted). Excessive users awaken with mental impairment, irritability, and physical symptoms like headache and nausea.
    The benzodiazepenes are in some sense more insidious than alcohol; while moderate drinkers can avoid hangover, benzos can create a similar syndrome even when used as directed. Some of these substances have a half-life* of many hours. Subjects may still have active quantities in their blood the next morning, and thus remain groggy and "drugged."[156]
    GHB, in comparison, has a very short half-life and no active metabolites. After about 4 hours it is entirely consumed, changed into simple carbohydrates and thence expelled as carbon dioxide and water, no differently from bananas and birthday cake[82]. In fact, its effects are so short-lived that it has been judged inappropriate for subjects who awaken easily and need something that will keep them sedated throughout the night[4].

Tolerance, Addiction, and Withdrawal

    The addictive potential of alcohol is well-known and need not be documented here. Tolerance* also develops to its effects, as seen when users need ever-greater quantities to get drunk. Withdrawal produces a variety of nasty effects, including depression, nausea, insomnia, and in severe cases the syndrome known as delirium tremens*.
    Long-term users of benzodiazepenes show a variety of withdrawal symptoms, ranging from nervousness and insomnia to life-threatening seizures (this latter type only in heavy users withdrawn suddenly). Another common condition is "REM rebound," in which REM, apparently increased to compensate for the benzo's suppression, slingshots to much higher levels than normal. This can create disturbing nightmares and uneven, fitful sleep[156].
    While withdrawal symptoms have been observed in GHB users, this seems to apply to people who take high doses multiple times each day and exist in a perpetually sedated state[33]. Repeated experiments have shown no adverse reactions when users of multiple low or single daily doses discontinue use[4],[12],[151]. Some difficulty sleeping may be noticed, but bear in mind that the user was someone who felt a need for a sleep aid in the first place.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Beanhead]
    #14423981 - 05/09/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I agree about the benzos. It's playing with fire to use that crap. It's ok for short term but no way for a long term situation. The "z" sleep drugs have similar problems.

GHB is very illegal and they will pass up other things to prosecute it ever since the media started calling it the date rape drug.

Google low dose tca's for sleep. They work well, have relatively few side effects and can be taken long term. A small amount of tolerance develops but does not lead to addiction.

For rls there are some things. Muscle relaxants like baclofen show promise. I have some coming i will be testing soon.

Phenibut for sleep is a bad idea in the long term, even for a week or so.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14424223 - 05/09/11 11:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You can get xyrem prescribed though.

And you're on the shroomery here man what the hell

"GHB is very illegal and they will pass up other things to prosecute it ever since the media started calling it the date rape drug."

Yes, congratulations their prejudice and propaganda have gotten a hold on you, you should evaluate the drug by its efficiency and toxicity. (imo :wink: :hug: )

Not saying that it's the holy grail for sleep but it definetly shouldn't be put aside.

Also thanks for the tip on low doses of tca's . Sounds promising, haven't heard of them before.

Edited by Beanhead (05/09/11 12:00 PM)

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Invisibleowls
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Beanhead]
    #14424443 - 05/09/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

and how exactly is he supposed to get prescribed xyrem?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: owls]
    #14424597 - 05/09/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Doctors are scared of prescribing xyrem because of all the bs publicity. He may get a visit from the dea or thinks he will. It will be a long journey to find a pharmacy that stocks it. If you do it may cost an arm and a leg.

I take it into account because if one thing is legal and can be gotten easily and the other is illegal and you keep seeing nasty articles about it in the paper, why pick the one with so much baggage? If i could get pure ghb with no hassles, i'd use it but the best you are likely to find is something made in a bathtub with doubtful purity and might be something else all together. It's rare that only one drug will do the job and no other. I pick several likely candidates based on use and side effects profile, try each one and stick with the ones i like the best. That allows me to rotate them and avoid so much tolerance. Even the ones they tell you give no tolerance you better not use every day or you will need more.

Some things work on h1 or h2 histamine receptor. Some work on ht2a1 or ht2a2 receptors. Some work on calcium channels, some on sodium channels, some on gaba receptors, some work multiple ways. Mix it up and you will do better i think though i've heard of patients who used just one thing for years like doxepin and they just gradually upped the dose. It's cheap enough, a few of them are cheap some are expensive and some are very expensive.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinebroken
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14424609 - 05/09/11 01:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i've been fighting with insomnia every couple months for the last 3 years. u learn to deal with it. u get a lot of reading done.


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:willynilly:

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Offlinemrgibblet
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: broken]
    #14425487 - 05/09/11 04:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

All you guys' posts are so intriguing.

The only stoop that I have hit is that this RLS medicine helps my RLS, but my RLS really wasn't ever bothering me in the first place. I still can't sleep for the life of me.

I just can't wait to go back to the doctor and tell him that all this shit isn't working. Because he seemed like he KNEW it would work and I KNEW that it wouldn't. Looking forward to telling him that I told him so.

I just need a damn chemical to make me sleep. Fast.
I got some sleep the other day because I stayed up for 3 days straight, and went on a 6-hour skateboarding binge.

Needless to say, I'm still pretty dead from that.


--------------------
:whoyougonnacall:
"Anxiety doesn't exist. It's just your inner brain telling you that you're a pussy."

jokes

Edited by mrgibblet (05/09/11 04:37 PM)

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Invisibleowls
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14425589 - 05/09/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Doctors are scared of prescribing xyrem because of all the bs publicity. He may get a visit from the dea or thinks he will. It will be a long journey to find a pharmacy that stocks it. If you do it may cost an arm and a leg.




that's what i'm sayin', ghb is the obvious solution but it's really not going to be that easy to obtain for someone in the states


--------------------
i love you

you are beautiful! :rockon:



COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: owls]
    #14425771 - 05/09/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Stupid laws

GRRRRRRRR

:facepalm: it's 2011 will this ever end

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Invisibleowls
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Re: I need some fucking help guys(cant sleep) [Re: Beanhead]
    #14425780 - 05/09/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
i love you

you are beautiful! :rockon:



COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!

"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?" :mushroom2:

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