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art vandelay
Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 81
Loc: Sc
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Used search... and even more confused on monotub
#14408811 - 05/06/11 06:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Search was used... but has led to even more confusion on monotub holes.
I initially read that, and know from the way things are done that you do not want fresh air until fruiting.
So, I figured Id have my buddy not drill his monotub holes until it was colonized.
But now, with what looks like cobweb in both of them and thinking its because of little gas exchange, Im searching again and have uncovered posts saying you want the polyfill holes throughout colonizing and fruiting.
So, please clear this up.
Should there be polyfilled holes throughout the whole process, or would just a sterlite tub/bin with the way the lids fit pretty loosely provide enough GE??
It will help others down the road that are doing the right thing and searching too, as there are posts saying both...
Thanks a lot.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf


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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: art vandelay]
#14408835 - 05/06/11 06:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Polyfil the whole time. Polyfil provides gas exchange. Usually these days people loosely tie a bag around it for colonization to reduce gas exchange. Then people usually remove some polyfil from a few holes when its time for fruiting to promote FRESH AIR exchange (as opposed to gas exchange).
You cannot put the holes in after colonization for many reasons. First being lack of gas exchange causing it to not colonize and cobweb to be able to thrive. Second, it is difficult to dril holes into an empty plastic tub, let alone a full one. Third, a drill getting plastic shavings and whatever else is on it, stirring up air, is not good for contamination either
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: art vandelay]
#14408839 - 05/06/11 06:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is one of those things where you kinda have to experiment a little and do what works best for you. I know that's not really that helpful as far as advice goes, but there are tons of different ways people do monotubs. Without the equipment to test for CO2 levels, it's not an exact science.
- Some just use the loose-fitting lid for G/E - Some drill holes, stuff with polyfil and then place the whole bin in a large trashbag and tie the bag off (I don't recommend this) - Some do the same as above, except do not tie off the trashbag, just lay the slack over the top of the tub - Some drill holes, stuff with polyfil and that's it
For me, the last works best. Some people get early pinning using this method, but I think it works well for me because I pack the polyfil about as tight as I can get it, and then I don't check on my tubs at all after spawning until about day 8. (If you open it up to check on it a bunch, it's going to get fresh air exchanges.)
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: Sillicybin]
#14408964 - 05/06/11 07:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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This seems to be another split topic where people believe both sides and apparently it works either way. I have always sealed monos before birthing them and replacing the duct tape with polyfill, with good results. In nature, you expect CO2 to build up during the vegetative phase, and once the substrate is fully colonized, you introduce fresh air which initiates pinning (tells the cake it's time to fruit).
With a sealed mono, you have a large volume of air for GE initially trapped in the tub. Over time the colonizing mycelium will change this into CO2 which will keep it vegetative (and colonizing) until it's ready.
Personally I believe that not keeping the CO2 levels high, by having polyfill in the holes from day one, can trigger premature pinning, which can lead to weak, contamination-prone cakes that you think are ready because pins show up. I could be wrong in this belief, but the way I understand mycelium, it makes sense to me.
I did try the polyfill-from-the-beginning method once and ended up with a crumbly dry substrate on the top 2" of my mono. This was during winter when RH in here was about 20% though, so maybe it wasn't a fair test.
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just me
Friend



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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: afrosheen]
#14408998 - 05/06/11 08:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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ive always taped my holes and polyfilled upon inducing to fruiting
the small air leaks in the tub is plenty of gas exchange for optimal colonization (retaining moisture, not enough fresh air to induce pinning, etc)
i/we've also had a few tubs with nothing drilled until fruiting, then drilled and polyfilled and they fruited excellently
i dont prefer the latter by any means, just trying to help you see the unimportance of fresh air when colonizing. a little is ok. none will still colonize. thats what i think about that
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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Luger0815
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: afrosheen]
#14409030 - 05/06/11 08:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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.
Edited by Luger0815 (07/04/11 11:18 AM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: Luger0815]
#14409200 - 05/06/11 09:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I tape over my holes & my lids allows for GE. Unless you have gasketted totes (as in rubber around the lid) the lid will allow for GE during colonization. High CO2 levels during colonization are a pinning strategy. from RR
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
To what degree do we restrict GE during Bulk Colonization?
To the degree necessary to hold CO2 in the neighborhood of 10K to 20K ppm. You can get a CO2 meter for under $300. RR
from this thread
yea & what Luger said...you don't want i completely air tight, because you'll get contams for sure. Also, indirect sunlight or 6500k lighting is good for colonizing mycelium...
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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dr0409
Stranger



Registered: 08/21/09
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: TranscendingLife]
#14409243 - 05/06/11 09:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have always taped the holes in the mono up for colonization. With the low RH where I live the sub likes to dry out if I don't. Then put poly fill in when I am ready to fruit.
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gofudgeyourself
Student



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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: dr0409]
#14409534 - 05/06/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you think about it, taping the holes for colonization then adding poly for fruiting is the exact same as covering the whole tub with already polyfilled holes in a trash bag. Either way, there is plenty of necessary GE either through the polyfill or the small gap between the tub and the lid.
-------------------- "believe it if you need it, or leave it if you dare." "turn all the hate in the world, into a mocking bird. make it fly away"
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: gofudgeyourself]
#14409543 - 05/06/11 10:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
gofudgeyourself said: If you think about it, taping the holes for colonization then adding poly for fruiting is the exact same as covering the whole tub with already polyfilled holes in a trash bag. Either way, there is plenty of necessary GE either through the polyfill or the small gap between the tub and the lid.
yes, but a trashbag will not allow for light to hit the substrate, which is great for colonizing myc...@ every stage of life of my mushis I have them getting light 12/12 from a 6500K light bulb...they it & me for it
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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gofudgeyourself
Student



Registered: 09/01/08
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: TranscendingLife]
#14409584 - 05/06/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
todlow said:
Quote:
gofudgeyourself said: If you think about it, taping the holes for colonization then adding poly for fruiting is the exact same as covering the whole tub with already polyfilled holes in a trash bag. Either way, there is plenty of necessary GE either through the polyfill or the small gap between the tub and the lid.
yes, but a trashbag will not allow for light to hit the substrate, which is great for colonizing myc...@ every stage of life of my mushis I have them getting light 12/12 from a 6500K light bulb...they it & me for it
It's dependant on your setup I guess, my tubs have windows at the top...I just put a piece of paper over it...I always thought misting and fanning (evaporation/humidity and fae) are the real major pinning triggers, not so much temp or light....
-------------------- "believe it if you need it, or leave it if you dare." "turn all the hate in the world, into a mocking bird. make it fly away"
Edited by gofudgeyourself (05/06/11 10:57 AM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: gofudgeyourself]
#14409611 - 05/06/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
gofudgeyourself said:
Quote:
todlow said:
Quote:
gofudgeyourself said: If you think about it, taping the holes for colonization then adding poly for fruiting is the exact same as covering the whole tub with already polyfilled holes in a trash bag. Either way, there is plenty of necessary GE either through the polyfill or the small gap between the tub and the lid.
yes, but a trashbag will not allow for light to hit the substrate, which is great for colonizing myc...@ every stage of life of my mushis I have them getting light 12/12 from a 6500K light bulb...they it & me for it
It's dependant on your setup I guess, my tubs have windows at the top...I just put a piece of paper over it...I always thought misting and fanning are the real major pinning triggers, not so much temp or light.
Evaporating Water from the surface of the substrate is the #1 pinning trigger. People mist & fan to cause this (I don't mist nor fan). & that's why i said I keep a light on my mushis no matter what stage they're in on a 12/12 schedule. colonizing mycelium colonizes quicker w/ light than w/ out.
Fruiting mushrooms grow larger, quicker & healthier w/ proper light. Temp is how quickly & how tall your mushis will get. Lower temps mean slower growing cubes that are denser & shorter
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
Edited by TranscendingLife (05/06/11 11:07 AM)
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art vandelay
Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 81
Loc: Sc
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: TranscendingLife]
#14413143 - 05/06/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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WOW, everyone, thanks for the replies.. Definitely some good advice.
And it looks like it's still split lol...some people like to polyfil from day 1, and some like to just allow for a bit of GE.
What is for sure is that you do not want it completely sealed...
Its just to what degree do you let GE...?
Edited by art vandelay (05/06/11 11:32 PM)
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dr0409
Stranger



Registered: 08/21/09
Posts: 100
Loc: Alaska
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: art vandelay]
#14413347 - 05/07/11 12:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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best thin to do is try them both and see what works best for you
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sporesmores420
SillyPsybin



Registered: 06/01/10
Posts: 829
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: dr0409]
#14414432 - 05/07/11 09:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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i use many 1 inch holes and then duct tape them during colonization using the crack on the lid for ge. Then when its time to fruit i put the polyfil in.
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3n1gm4
3N!9M4T!C



Registered: 01/13/11
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: sporesmores420]
#14414559 - 05/07/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Getting the moisture content of your sub to field capacity is the most important thing, if it is too wet it will stall or colonize very slow, too dry and it will not have enough moisture to carry it through the first flush.
If you get your sub mix right it will work either way, taped up or not, I myself use polyfil packed tightly in one bottom hole during colonization.
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!
   
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: art vandelay]
#14414705 - 05/07/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
art vandelay said:
Its just to what degree do you let GE...?
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
To what degree do we restrict GE during Bulk Colonization?
To the degree necessary to hold CO2 in the neighborhood of 10K to 20K ppm. You can get a CO2 meter for under $300. RR
From this thread
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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Theyoungproducer
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: art vandelay]
#17755159 - 02/06/13 11:32 AM (11 years, 26 days ago) |
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While I have had success with sealing them up from the start, i now stuff the holes with polyfil before starting incubation and double trash bag it to seal it off...allows for just the right amount of ge provided fair circulation in the room. 30 gal trash bag 58 qt sterilite
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MushroomNSwiss
Capt. Obvious



Registered: 02/19/12
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Re: Used search... and even more confused on monotub [Re: Theyoungproducer]
#17755211 - 02/06/13 11:43 AM (11 years, 26 days ago) |
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Necro'd
-------------------- The early bird may get the worm... but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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