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Offlinedwtk
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Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death
    #14409201 - 05/06/11 09:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/06/where-alcoholics-can-drink-themselves-to-death/?iref=NS1

Quote:

St. Paul, Minnesota (CNN) - It's been over seven years since Marian Hagerman has spoken to anyone in his family.  As he huddles behind a parked trailer on a cold early spring day, Hagerman reflects on his life, and recalls what led him to this moment.

"This is my lifestyle," says Hagerman, 54, while sneaking a swig of what he calls "wash," or mouthwash - a cheap way of getting intoxicated. "It ain't much, but this is what I have.  It sucks. "

He says he held a steady job for 20 years, before his addiction to alcohol took over his life.  Today, Hagerman lives at St. Anthony Residence in St. Paul, Minnesota, along with about 60 other late-stage alcoholics.

St. Anthony, which receives funds from the state and the Catholic church, is known as a "wet house" because Hagerman and the others are allowed to drink on site, with some caveats - including no mouthwash. 

"It's not bad. I got cable TV," Hagerman says.  "You can't drink in your room, but you can drink. You gotta do it outside."

The theory is that it's better to allow these guys to drink in a safe place than to end up on the streets and in the city's emergency rooms, jails, and detox centers.  At St. Anthony, they have access to nurses - and doctors if the situation warrants - plus on-site case managers to aid in their addiction. Ideally, St. Anthony's counselors want the residents to sober up – but they realize that there isn't a strong chance of that happening.

St. Paul isn't the only city that has a "wet house"-style residence - Seattle was one of the first cities to put this concept into practice in 2005, and Memphis is considering building one, too.

Another argument in favor of the concept is that it saves money.  Each St. Anthony's resident costs about $18,000 a year to house and feed, about $1,500 a month.  A study in the Journal of the American Medical Association indicates that if these men were out on the street, it could cost over $4,000 a month in incarceration, shelter and sobering center use, hospital-based medical services, publicly funded alcohol and drug detoxification and treatment, and emergency medical services.

But the idea of allowing alcoholics to drink is antithetic to the basic tenets of addiction counseling.

"We feel that that it's never too late, and that even if the alcoholic doesn't want help, doesn't mean that their drinking should be condoned or in any other way enabled or facilitated," says William Cope Moyers, public advocacy executive director for Hazelden addiction treatment centers in the Minneapolis-St. Paul region.

"I see the wet house model as a model that enables the addict in the alcoholic to continue those destructive patterns."

Moyers, who is the son of well-known journalist Bill Moyers, has chronicled his own struggle in his book, "Broken: My Story of Addiction and Redemption."  His opposition to the wet house concept is commonplace among addiction counselors.

Hagerman, like a lot of the other St. Anthony residents, says he'd like to eventually leave and find a job. But he feels like he's stuck.

"No I don’t want to stay there, I'd like to get a goddamn  job and get the hell outta there," he says.  "Jesus Christ,  I turn 55 in September,  I'm getting old.  Who wants to hire a 55-year-old man?"

Like a lot of the residents, Hagerman's addiction to alcohol not only keeps him out of a job - it keeps him away from his family, too.

Just weeks after he learned his brother Jerry died from a heart attack, he learned that another brother, Mike, is in the hospital, dying from colon cancer.

I give him a ride to the hospital, where he visits Mike and sits down with his other brother, Ray, for the first time in seven years.

It's an awkward conversation, as Ray talks about Marian, seated next to him, as if he's not even there.

"It's like we did kind of wash our hands [of] him when our parents died," Ray says.  "We weren't going to take care of him.  I'm glad to see that he's still alive because none of us were sure if he was.  Always looked on the streets to see if I would see him somewhere."

Ray says isn't sure what a "wet house" is, but seems to be OK with the idea.

"I don’t think he's ever gonna stop drinking," Ray says.

"No, no, I'm not going to," Marian responds, as if to remind Ray he's sitting right there.  "My lifestyle keeps me alive."

"Yeah it also keeps you separated from everybody in the last years of their lives," his brother says.

The day after the visit, Mike succumbs to colon cancer.

"It's my life.  That's as far as it goes," Marian says a few days later, as he seeks to numb himself from the pain of his loss.  "I live here. Look at this?  Do you think I’m happy with this situation? No, I can't stand it. But I have nothing else to do."




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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: dwtk] * 1
    #14409531 - 05/06/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

addiction counslers can hypothesize all they want but in the end it's the wet house or the pub that gets these dudes off alcohol and not the constant interuptions.

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Offlinebbl337
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: Konyap]
    #14409725 - 05/06/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've had patients who were like 40-60 years old, had money, and STILL drank mouth wash.  Some people are just fucked up


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Offlinetwigsin
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: bbl337]
    #14410090 - 05/06/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

this is sad..


--------------------
because this big old river
will kill us in time
'till then we'll drink it's weight
in cheap beer and wine
we can drink just as fast
as the river is strong
and we'll drink 'till we're gone





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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: Konyap]
    #14410222 - 05/06/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

aiyobro said:
addiction counslers can hypothesize all they want but in the end it's the wet house or the pub that gets these dudes off alcohol and not the constant interuptions.




lol quit trying to be righteous. Read the article. The wet house operators nor the alcoholics claim that it is even slightly rehabilitating.

" Ideally, St. Anthony's counselors want the residents to sober up – but they realize that there isn't a strong chance of that happening."


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OfflineHumility
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: LightShedder]
    #14410262 - 05/06/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Lol sounds like harm reduction is spreading.  It's good that they practice it with alcoholics.

Alcohol is one of the most harmful and hardest drugs there are.


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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: Humility]
    #14410887 - 05/06/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yup booze is a bitch!
I've battled booze for over ten years.  I have sucsefully stopped using nearly every drug of abuse through my years of experimentation. But alcohol..... I truly wish I had never taken a sip, I can say that of NO other chemical, and I have tried most of them.  I have lost friends, money, houses, cars...
Thankfully now in my mid thirties I control my drinking rather than visa versa.  However, a junkie is a junkie.
No room for self rightous bullshit in these discussions. 
Glad to see some people are keeping it real...
:shrug:

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Offline2jew4u
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #14410937 - 05/06/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Least over head is cheap, Hell for 3 dollars a day you could keep the whole bunch drunk off the cheap shit. Teach them how to brew their own shit and make em monks. Then they could sell craft beer around town and turn  a profit for their center all the while recruting new brewers,monks LOL

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Offlinefocker919
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: dwtk]
    #14411459 - 05/06/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

"I see the wet house model as a model that enables the addict in the alcoholic to continue those destructive patterns."




As compared to them either:
A) magically coming up with a way and will to successfully complete your expensive detox/rehab treatment
B) continuing said destructive patterns on the streets, doing all the bad things that entails.

At least they are off the streets and not doing the crazy stuff addicts do to get their fix :/  aint perfect, but its better then doing nothing and hoping for the best

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OfflineKing Cap
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Registered: 02/22/11
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: 2jew4u]
    #14412556 - 05/06/11 09:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

2jew4u said:
Least over head is cheap, Hell for 3 dollars a day you could keep the whole bunch drunk off the cheap shit. Teach them how to brew their own shit and make em monks. Then they could sell craft beer around town and turn  a profit for their center all the while recruting new brewers,monks LOL




Lol now there's an idea. Make someones problem their passion


--------------------
"Snow is like sex. You never know how much your gonna get or how long it's gonna last"


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: King Cap]
    #14412641 - 05/06/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

they proably drink all that mouth wash cuz they sucking hobo dick for bootlegger money

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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: Konyap]
    #14413817 - 05/07/11 04:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

aiyobro said:
they proably drink all that mouth wash cuz they sucking hobo dick for bootlegger money



:facepalm:

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OfflineLightShedder
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Registered: 08/30/05
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: Konyap]
    #14417356 - 05/07/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

aiyobro said:
they proably drink all that mouth wash cuz they sucking hobo dick for bootlegger money




lol hobos suckin each other off for beer. There's an image.


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: LightShedder] * 1
    #14417679 - 05/08/11 01:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lol whut?

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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: Konyap]
    #14418000 - 05/08/11 02:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I can't count how many times I've imagined homos sucking eachother off for booze.....





This wet house is a great idea IMO.  I'd much rather ignorant drunks be isolated and allowed to do what they wish, than panhandling and causing fights in the streets.

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Offlinetwigsin
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: vandago]
    #14419530 - 05/08/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:laugh2:


--------------------
because this big old river
will kill us in time
'till then we'll drink it's weight
in cheap beer and wine
we can drink just as fast
as the river is strong
and we'll drink 'till we're gone





Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offline2jew4u
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Registered: 04/07/11
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: twigsin]
    #14419579 - 05/08/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wonder if we gave them fighting contracts, we could resurect bumfights.

30bux a fight, winner gets  money plus a 30pk- or some mouthwash whatever, they(bums) know the russians or germans make snaps right 100proof rumplemint.

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OfflinesandraB
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Registered: 05/09/11
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: 2jew4u]
    #14427599 - 05/09/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Several of the major news wires are carrying a story in terms of a “wet house” in St. Paul, Minn. It's about a kind of therapy for alcoholics. Homeless alcoholics or at-risk alcoholics are admitted to a wet house if they can't or won't get sober, and have a place to stay and safely use alcohol which will reduce harm to themselves and others. Similar programs have worked in the past, and far more cities are looking at the idea. More cities consider running wet house centers for addicts. I know the pain of isolation and hopelessness that some people fall into. Alcohol is the symptom - not the disease! Societal pressures and life-long rejection/disappointments are at the core of many guys' problems with alcohol. Remove the cause, and you may remove the addiction, in time. I think this program is good because it gives these people a safe place until there health concedes to alcohol.

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Offline2jew4u
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: sandraB]
    #14434607 - 05/11/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well i was ahead of the curve, And opened a shooting gallery for addicts, but the cops said it was conspiracy Wtf.  Just trying for harm reduction ya know. :smirk:

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Invisibleroquet
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Re: Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death [Re: bbl337]
    #14436497 - 05/11/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bbl337 said:
I've had patients who were like 40-60 years old, had money, and STILL drank mouth wash.  Some people are just fucked up



Did they say why? Maybe they just wanted to save money even if they weren't completely broke. Or denial - I'm not going to drink today but I'll buy some mouthwash just for gargling, and end up drinking it. Or they just like the taste?

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