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Offlineparadise
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grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn?
    #14410028 - 05/06/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Whats the outcome of a grain/sawdust mixture(4:1 or maybe less, idk just an idea) for woodlovers used as a spawn to inoculate more sawdust (no grain)?


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Offlineparadise
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: paradise]
    #14412511 - 05/06/11 09:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well I did it. Its just a test run, 2 Lentinus edodes 2 Ps azurescens pint jars. Im going to see if its possible that introducing a little sawdust in the grain will make a faster transfer when it goes to the pure sawdust.

But what is the effect if any on the mycelial growth when you transfer it to grain BEFORE you transfer it to the familiarized substrate.

I know that you can supplement agar with the end substrate to accustom species to grow better/faster during and after agar run... and in the end reduce the lag for leap-off onto the end substrate.

But can this lag be reduced even more? By always having the end substrate in the grain, it, in theory should be more attuned to the ES or at least at par with the agar supplementation tek.(IF it works)

Hypothesis: Uneven growth leading to slow growth and eventual abortion.(always expect the worst)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: paradise]
    #14413949 - 05/07/11 06:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

paradise said:

I know that you can supplement agar with the end substrate to accustom species to grow better/faster during and after agar run... and in the end reduce the lag for leap-off onto the end substrate.






I have never seen one whit of evidence to support this.  You can add sawdust to your agar, or to your grains, but it's not going to make the 'jump off' any faster.
RR


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Offlineparadise
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14414173 - 05/07/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I guess I was a bit hasty in saying that I know something haha. Then what "evidence" have you seen? ...I was just going off of what I had read in GGaMM...and I guess the key word is "potential" meaning it can or cant right?

page 86 "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms": ...This medium can be further fortified with the addition of 3-5 grams of the end substrate (in most cases hardwood sawdust) upon which mushrooms will be produced. If samples of soil or dung are desired, they first must be preboiled for 1 hour before adding. One potential advantage of the addition of these end-substrate components is a significant reduction in the "lag period". (Leatham and Griffin, 1984; Raaska, 1990)


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OfflineGoose
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: paradise]
    #14482239 - 05/20/11 01:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

im gorwing some shiitake right now and am a few weeks in to it. i useed brf and  hardwood sawdust for some of the jars and wbs for some of the others. the wbs is colonizing much faster than the brf and sawdust.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: paradise]
    #14482943 - 05/20/11 06:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

paradise said:

page 86 "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms": ...This medium can be further fortified with the addition of 3-5 grams of the end substrate (in most cases hardwood sawdust) upon which mushrooms will be produced. If samples of soil or dung are desired, they first must be preboiled for 1 hour before adding. One potential advantage of the addition of these end-substrate components is a significant reduction in the "lag period". (Leatham and Griffin, 1984; Raaska, 1990)




Yes, I've read that.  I said I've not seen evidence of it except in that book.  I've added sawdust to agar and grains, and not seen the mycelium take off one bit faster than when it wasn't added.  If it were true, I'd be doing it on every batch, since I make my living growing mushrooms and need every advantage possible.

I'd keep sawdust out of your grains.  When you spawn your grains to sawdust later, the mycelium will jump right off, providing you have it in a rapid state of growth.
RR


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Offlinekotter
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14483689 - 05/20/11 10:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

RR - How much sawdust were you adding to your agar and grain?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: kotter]
    #14484728 - 05/20/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

From trace amounts up to 5%, just to see if there was any difference.  In fact, my experience was the opposite.  Mycelium tended to jump off faster into a new substrate than it would if transferred to the same one.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14486047 - 05/20/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the details RR! I've been having similar results and was wondering if it was me.


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Invisiblefngbronco
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: kotter]
    #14489327 - 05/21/11 11:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Could it be the sawdust is too nutritious? I've noticed with my rice bran cakes growth is slow as hell, where as with ground red rice it's almost contaminant speed. Same with rye vs wbs except I've only had a couple successful wbs jars. Fruiting from less nutritious substrates seems to happen faster as well.


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Offlineparadise
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: fngbronco]
    #14491044 - 05/21/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The shiitake took about a week to colonize and the azurescens reached 100% yesterday so about 2 weeks for that...one azurescens did contam but i think that  was just from the plate, it was looking a little rough. However I did notice that with the sawdust mixed in the grain, the mycelium doesnt grow as "thick and cottony" as it normally does...maybe due to the space in the substrate..but it MIGHT make it easier to retrieve from jars...and if so would be good to try with G lucidum since it also can be hard to remove.

EDIT: and as RR said it doesnt really improve speed of colonization...it was pretty much the same as w/o..darn


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Edited by paradise (05/21/11 07:23 PM)


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Offlinedabirdoprey
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: paradise]
    #16940089 - 09/30/12 06:06 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am trying to use sawdust to start spawn of P. azurescens and found some lying around. It is a mixture of red and white so I doubt that all of it if any is from hardwoods. I've heard that woodchips or sawdust that aren't hardwood can be partially decomposed to make  the the mycelium accept it still. Is this true? Also if it is true then what are some methods for doing so?


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OfflineMateo
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Re: grain and sawdust substrate for woodlover spawn? [Re: dabirdoprey]
    #16957270 - 10/03/12 07:05 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think i have seen this effect when i use a jar of spawn (ryegrains and maybee 1/6 alder shavings) and inoculate woodchips substrate.
But then again i havent done a side by side comparison, maybee it was just in my mind.
But as i also have read this i atleast think i noticed this fenomen.

Would be very intresting if someone could do a side by side comparison and document it real good.

Mateo


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