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OfflineArfa
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Registered: 01/24/11
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4 fully colonized grain jars - what now?
    #14408833 - 05/06/11 06:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hi there

I have 4 fully colonized rye and birdseed grain jars ready to be put to action. I was wondering what would be the next thing to do if I want to get as much as possible out of them while still preserving some of the mycelium for later purposes. I only have experience in growing of BRF-cakes, so I'd now like to take my skills to the next level. I have two questions:

1. What would you recommend a grain spawn newbie: Casing or making a bulk substrate? What is easier to do? I have verm, perlite and a shotgun incubating box which I already used for growing BRF-cakes. I've read about casing with coco coir or manure, doesn't seem too complicated to do...What would you do?

2. Also: What's the best way to preserve some of the mycelium for later purposes? Should I extract some of the myc right out of the jars and do a culture? Or can I just put one jar in the fridge for an extended period of time? Are there any other ways?

Looking forward to be enlighted with your wisdom, as always!

Arfa


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14408862 - 05/06/11 07:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

1) Make a bulk substrate using 50% coco coir and 50% vermiculite. Take 3-4 jars of the bulk substrate and mix it in with 3 of your grain jars. Put into bags or tubs and let colonize for a week, then fruit. You can hold some of the bulk substrate aside to put some on top after you put the mixed substrate/grain into the tubs. This will give you a somewhat casing layer that will mostly colonize.

2) Take the last jar and split it into 10 more. Do so in a glovebox in a small room with no carpets or fans (bathroom works well). You can take 1 from each new set 3 times or so to split into 10 more jars, and use the other 9 jars as you please. You can also store jars in the fridge for a while, Id wrap them in foil though so they dont dry out.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14408866 - 05/06/11 07:02 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineArfa
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14408898 - 05/06/11 07:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, I'm always amazed by the speed of the replies in this forum! :ooo: Thank you very much for your help scatmanrav!

Two questions:

1) Is mixing substrate with grains better than layering? Or it's basically the same?

2) (Probably a stupid question) When you say "split into 10 more" do you mean splitting into freshly sterilized rye grain jars or just dividing the grains into smaller portions?

Thanx bro!


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14408922 - 05/06/11 07:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

1) I think it is, some prefer layering. I think the only advantage of layering is ending up with no grains on top, just substrate, so I save some substrate to the side and mix my grain with a majority of the substrate, then when I fill my bags or tubs I put about 1/2 inch of substrate (coir/verm/gypsum) on top, cover and let colonize. The top layer pretty much colonizes so its not really a casing layer, but it acts as a great protection and helps provide a nice place for pinning.

2) Make 10 new grain jars then take about 2 spoonfuls of your colonized one into each new grain jar, then shake around. You should have 10 good jars in about 7 days.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Invisiblepenhed
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14408932 - 05/06/11 07:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Do a glc and  g2g 7-10 new jars and spawn your ready jars to some poo...put some glc in fridge not the jar....i layer to see how even my spawn is...mix is fine..i would cover all grains on top will a layer of sub


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: penhed]
    #14408943 - 05/06/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Go to bulk with 3 of those jars using Damion5050's tek here. He goes 5:8 on his ratio so you want to cut the tek in half, 3 jars of spawn to 4 quarts of coir, so half a coir brick and only one quart of verm and 2 quarts of water instead of 4.

With the last jar, prep 10 more jars, PC them, wait overnight then do a grain to grain transfer. As others have said, this will give you 10 more colonized grain jars in about 7-10 days depending on your luck. You can do this for about 5-6 generations before the myc starts getting tired.


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Edited by afrosheen (05/06/11 07:41 AM)


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OfflineArfa
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: afrosheen]
    #14446014 - 05/13/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Argh, a sad topic update from my side...

Today I was ready to go bulk with Damion5050's tek, as recommended by afrosheen, but as I took out the jars, 3 out of 4 were already weird looking. One had a few small but clear grey spots (probably mold) the other two were white, but the content was a very "furry" looking white mycelium - compared to the only jar that had a healthy and strong rhizomorph looking myc. As I opened them, the 3 fishy looking emitted a surprisingly sweet smell (a little bit like honey) mixed with a faint smell of old socks. However, after shaking, the smell was really mushroomy, if you know what I mean...And other than that, they seemed fine. So, I tossed the one that was grey and applied the elementary Coir Tek with the remaining two (I didn't have the heart to throw them away), and sprayed the surface of the substrate with 3% H2O2 (in case the problem was really cobweb).

Now the only fine looking jar is waiting to be g2g'd to 5 other rye grain jars which are currently being sterilized as I write these lines.

What do you think? Am I totally insane for trying to save my myc? Also: Is it normal for rye grain jars to almost take a whole month to fully colonize, or did I wait too long to use them maybe?


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InvisibleBase Icks
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14446052 - 05/13/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ok going to try and fully answer this to the best of my ability. haven't been in mushcult in a while.

Ok, I've used sweet smelling jars before and had ok results. I used them in monos and left the polyfil pretty loose. The increased fae seemed to make the sweet smell go away and it fruited ok. I've also successfully fruited jars with yeast in them as well, after more experienced people on her told me that it wouldn't work.

And for why you jars took a month to colonise is a different topic. What were they inoculated with, also what was the colonization temp range?

The h2o2 was probably over kill. I would have waited till I saw it in the tub before spraying for it. With loose poly fil I bet it would have never formed even if it was present.

And a final note, with looser than normal polyfil for colonization you loose more moisture than if you had the polyfill stuffed tight.


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OfflineArfa
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14446268 - 05/13/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you for your uplifting reply, Base Icks, your abilities are more than welcome here! :thumbup:

I'm glad to hear that others have tried saving suspicious cultures against all odds. I know most recommend to be rather safe than sorry, but I'm too much of a newbie to give up on my precious little jars.

I have a question concerning the use of polyfill. I've used it on the jars for gas exchange, but I don't understand what you mean by using  polyfill in "monos". Do you mean "monocultures"? Does that have anything to do with casing? I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with abbreviations yet.

Also, to answer your question about colonization: I've inoculated the jars with my own spore syringe (I did some prints from my last crop). The jars were exposed to my radiator which has a fluctuating temperature throughout the day. Range: 71-86F. Probably the lower temperatures made the myc stall till it was warmer again, and by that, slowing its growth...Could that be?


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14446299 - 05/13/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Monos = monotubs. They're all over this site. You stuff the air holes with polyfill so the tub can breathe.


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OfflineArfa
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14446342 - 05/13/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh ok, thanx. I could have looked it up. Sorry for that!

I just put my mix into two aluminium boxes, much like this one:



and covered them with some cardboard/aluminium lips. Should I make some polyfill holes or is my profane tek just plain useless?


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14446356 - 05/13/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Uh...if you're gonna do trays like that, you cover them with single sheets of aluminum foil and poke a few tiny holes in the top. Should take about 10 days to colonize.

Once those trays are done you can move them to a shotgun fruiting chamber. Do you have one already?


--------------------


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OfflineArfa
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14446511 - 05/13/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I have a shotgun chamber. And perlite ready.

I will poke some holes through the lids, good idea! Should I poke holes on the sides too?

Thanx again, afrosheen. You're always there when needed!


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InvisibleBase Icks
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14447688 - 05/13/11 08:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Arfa said:
Thank you for your uplifting reply, Base Icks, your abilities are more than welcome here! :thumbup:

I'm glad to hear that others have tried saving suspicious cultures against all odds. I know most recommend to be rather safe than sorry, but I'm too much of a newbie to give up on my precious little jars.

I have a question concerning the use of polyfill. I've used it on the jars for gas exchange, but I don't understand what you mean by using  polyfill in "monos". Do you mean "monocultures"? Does that have anything to do with casing? I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with abbreviations yet.

Also, to answer your question about colonization: I've inoculated the jars with my own spore syringe (I did some prints from my last crop). The jars were exposed to my radiator which has a fluctuating temperature throughout the day. Range: 71-86F. Probably the lower temperatures made the myc stall till it was warmer again, and by that, slowing its growth...Could that be?




Your welcome. Thanks for being gracious and polite. This hobby can be as complicated as you want it to be. I suggest that you want it to be complex so you learn more and make and attempt to understand it as much as possible. It makes it the most rewarding. I still know very little about the workings of the mushrooms but the more I learn the more rewarding it is.

I'm in the uk and jars are expensive. I know the value of the contents of a jar, especially when they are your first. soem times you have to take risks to live and learn a little. At the end of the day, what I share with you is only my :2cents: and nothing else, take it with a grain of salt(just not bath salts).

I'm not goig to give you the links to mono tubs. I'm sure they are in the "grow mushrooms" tab at the top under fruiting chambers. I helped otheres do a lot of work not all that long ago to update it and organise it a bit to make it easier to find information. There is also a dictionary and acronym list up there some where probably under the FAQ's.

Monotubs are the way to go with bulk unless you really want to do small tubs in a SG. Also may I suggest learning the correct meanign of a casing. There is a lot of old info about that misuse the term casing.

If you are using damions tek, he shows his recipe being used in a mono(the tub).

I know all the other posters in here cept for penhed(no offince man I jsut dont know ya personally yet) and will tell ya that there adcise is solid.

Always try to learn what you can on your own and when your stuck or confused give us a shout.

You only get whwat out  what you put in.

:shroomeryhead:


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Base Icks]
    #14447854 - 05/13/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

No, you don't want/need holes in the sides. Those look like little cooking tins for lasagna or something. If those are from a takeout dinner, thanks for recycling. :smile:


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OfflineArfa
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: afrosheen]
    #14457712 - 05/15/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Base Icks said:
only my :2cents: and nothing else, take it with a grain of salt(just not bath salts).




Thank you man, your 2 cents are very valuable to me. I looked up monos and got the thing with "casing" straight. For some reason, I always thought casing means putting your myc in a "case". But I figured it out now...


Quote:

afrosheen said:
No, you don't want/need holes in the sides. Those look like little cooking tins for lasagna or something. If those are from a takeout dinner, thanks for recycling. :smile:




LOL! You're exactly right. We use those things for cooking lasagne and chicken home delivery. I though I'd give it a try though...Since the mycelium looked suspicious, I figured why not trying?? ;-) I'll take your advice and won't poke holes into them. Thanx!


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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14457866 - 05/15/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Only thing about the aluminium is that the metabolites can eat through it a bit. Its not a big deal and the aluminum doesn't get absorbed into the fruit bodies or anything(citing RR here, he said he had a proper lab test done on some fruits grown this way). It might eat a few small holes in the tray over time.


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OfflineArfa
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Base Icks]
    #14503001 - 05/24/11 06:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

A little update from this side of the world...

I've incubated my suspiciously looking rye jars using Damion5050's coco coir tek and...lo and behold! They colonized nicely. I've bought a seeding bowl from a market garden, poked a few holes around it, stuffed them with polyfill and added a wet cloth on the bottom to ensure rh. My mushroom "lasagna boxes" fit in perfectly. Here are some pics of my little terrarium construction:












Looks fine to me so far. Will see how well they develop. Thank you guys for your hints & tricks!


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InvisibleSpector
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Re: 4 fully colonized grain jars - what now? [Re: Arfa]
    #14503313 - 05/24/11 08:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ayyyyy, :thumbup:
..I wish there was a fonzie Smily/image
giving thumbs up.
but good work, looks good and cheap.


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