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twigsin
happiness facilitator



Registered: 08/23/09
Posts: 133
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: EdgeChaos]
#14410103 - 05/06/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- because this big old river will kill us in time 'till then we'll drink it's weight in cheap beer and wine we can drink just as fast as the river is strong and we'll drink 'till we're gone
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: twigsin]
#14410144 - 05/06/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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^^
I
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: realfuzzhead]
#14410823 - 05/06/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Change! Hope! Yes we ca.... *cough *cough
Reality, its a bitch.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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dondoodle
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: batman returns]
#14410933 - 05/06/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
batman returns said:
Quote:
gamer4life said: I ask you all to forget everything else and lets get the government away from telling us what drugs we and our brothers can do without going to prison.
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blazenn said: although i agree that legalization is important, there are many more important issues at hand like the state of the economy and our increasingly ludicrous foreign policy.
I have to disagree with you here blazenn. I, and I'm sure many others, feel that drug legalization is the single most important issue facing our country today. I'm sure you know the stats, but let me remind you of some; we have 5% of the worlds population, and 25% of the prisoners, most of whom are disadvantaged minorities. We spend billions of dollars a year, that we don't have and get from loans from China, on the law enforcement model of prohibition, money that could be used elsewhere to boost of flailing economy. And out of all the problems we face as a nation, none is more dangerous to our so talked about personal freedoms than drug prohibition. It transcends civil liberties and has the supporters violently oppressed by a moneyed elite. In my opinion, it is the most dangerous foe we face today, hands down. After we repeal our drug war, we need to correct our foreign policy and protect our environment, but for me at least the 500 pound guerilla is the war on drugs.
The most important issues facing this country are war and war! We need to scream this as loud as possible we need to stop the drug war and the imperialist wars. With all the millions of people this country has unjustly killed over the years -Vietnam, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan etcetera not to mention the massive amounts of money spent on imperialist war I would say you have a much much harder case to make. On the other hand look at all of the people imprisoned and oppressed in the US torture chambers. In addition the amount of money spent on incarceration and paramilitarizing the police largely due to the Drug war and all of the people profiteering form the drug war - police, probation officers, jail guards, district attorneys, lawyers, counselors, parole officers etcetera is a huge number and ridiculously undercounted.
Why dont we agree that war (Imperialist) and war (Drug) are the most important issues? A national coalition needs to be formed to destroy the United War Party and both wings - Democrat and Republican because those parties are unforgiveable for the crimes they have committed in the wars (Drug and Imperialist).
I have to say to all the people cheering because they see Ron Paul and Gary Johnson you are naive and fooling yourself. The Republican and Democrat parties are here to oppress us they will not be co-opted in any way. That is just the truth. The same thing happens with the naive Anti-War Democrat partisans who fell for Obama and /or Kucinich.
Anyone who really wants to destroy war and war and both of these parties speak up, lets organize and make this serious. We need the national coalition that on principle shuns both of these parties and organizes against war (Imperialist and Drug). Democrats and Republicans need not apply.
These 2 candidates will be pushed aside, you can take that to the bank, the only thing that could allow them to be on the big stage is near total economic collapse of this country and then they still won't win. These two parties are criminal corporate syndicates, and they have been that way, likely since their very inception. Don't fool yourself.
Edited by dondoodle (05/06/11 03:48 PM)
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Mycjunky
Stranger


Registered: 07/25/09
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dondoodle]
#14411046 - 05/06/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree both parties are very corrupt. However I don't see why you'd call anyone naive for being happy to see two candidates that actually stand for real freedom and peace. I know the republican party will do everything it can to push Paul and Johnson out, and since most American's are to stupid to see what's really going on they don't stand a real chance.
However our political party system was designed so that parties evolve, and I do believe that if enough people are educated it is possible to change the system.
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thelivingfreekshow
Fuck You



Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2,043
Loc: Prifddinas, Gielinor
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Mycjunky]
#14411073 - 05/06/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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pICKING UP SOME STEAM!!!!!!
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Mycjunky]
#14411238 - 05/06/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycjunky said: I agree both parties are very corrupt. However I don't see why you'd call anyone naive for being happy to see two candidates that actually stand for real freedom and peace. I know the republican party will do everything it can to push Paul and Johnson out, and since most American's are to stupid to see what's really going on they don't stand a real chance.
However our political party system was designed so that parties evolve, and I do believe that if enough people are educated it is possible to change the system.
As much as I would love to see such a thing to happen, it simply isn't realistic. Political power doesn't exist in thoughts and hopes, it exists in money, influence and the finger tips of whoever is in the position to count the votes.
To outline my point:
Political party A: receives 60% of the votes Political party B: receives 30% of the votes All others combine for: 10% of votes
Political part B wins the day!
If that doesn't make mathematical sense, then one only need consider who is counting the votes and the influence these individuals have to keep outsiders from becoming insiders. If an outsider should manage to get a large percentage of votes, or even legitimately win the election, all the oligarchs must do is lie. We all know they lie, we all know the raw information is out of our fingertips if its ever counted in the first place, and we all know they have motive to lie.
Now I'm not trying to be a downer, but don't get your hopes up on politics. There are things in life which can get better, history just isn't one of them
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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dondoodle
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/09
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Mycjunky]
#14411309 - 05/06/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycjunky said: I agree both parties are very corrupt. However I don't see why you'd call anyone naive for being happy to see two candidates that actually stand for real freedom and peace. I know the republican party will do everything it can to push Paul and Johnson out, and since most American's are to stupid to see what's really going on they don't stand a real chance.
I'm calling people naive who think this will translate into the Republican party turning against the drug war, those are the people I am calling naive. You are definitely one of those people given your statement below. This political system is not set up to educate or become enlightened that is the lie they teach to young people in school and to everyone on the corporate owned media propaganda systems. This system was set up to dominate and control and that is what it is doing and like the other poster has pointed out just look at the money. Even if you dont believe that how many centuries of despicable action by this government will it take before you are willing to declare it is a hopelessly corrupt system? The murder and domination has been ongoing since the original genocides.
Quote:
However our political party system was designed so that parties evolve, and I do believe that if enough people are educated it is possible to change the system.
This is especially naive if you believe the Republican or Democrat parties are the engines to make enlightened meaningful change happen. You will not co-opt those despicable murderous parties because they are set up to oppress. That is their purpose, nature, essence and raison de etre.
-------------------- End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.
Edited by dondoodle (05/06/11 05:02 PM)
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Mycjunky
Stranger


Registered: 07/25/09
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dondoodle]
#14411361 - 05/06/11 05:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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So your honestly claiming the founding fathers setup the system in order to dominate and control us? I agree that is where we are at but that's not how the system was originally setup. There are many ways to stop corruption aside from totally destroying our current system.
I understand that currently the candidates are run by money, the media is run by money, it's all run by money and extremely bias all around continuing our current situation. It's not always been like that however. The two-party system was in affect back when we still had a foreign policy of isolationism. The system has evolved into a very corrupt system totally run by mainstream media, big business, and money. However that's not totally the fault of the two-party system there are many other factors at play that are manipulating the parties as well.
You do realize there were times neither party stood for anything they currently stand for, they change overtime, and they can change again if people actually get involved in politics. If not real force might be necessary but if we can't even get people to get out and fucking vote or take part in an election I'm doubting your gonna find very many people willing to actually fight. However if it does come to that, and it wouldn't surprise me if it did, I'll be there with you to overthrow the corrupt government we are stuck with. Until there's enough support for that though, I'm willing to try the next best thing that some do support.
Edited by Mycjunky (05/06/11 05:12 PM)
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focker919
Stranger
Registered: 05/06/11
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Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Mycjunky]
#14411389 - 05/06/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
So your honestly claiming the founding fathers setup the system in order to dominate and control us? I agree that is where we are at but that's not how the system was originally setup. There are many ways to stop corruption aside from totally destroying our current system.
I understand that currently the candidates are run by money, the media is run by money, it's all run by money and extremely bias all around continuing our current situation. It's not always been like that however. The two-party system was in affect back when we still had a foreign policy of isolationism. The system has evolved into a very corrupt system totally run by mainstream media, big business, and money. However that's not totally the fault of the two-party system there are many other factors at play that are manipulating the parties as well.
You do realize there were times neither party stood for anything they currently stand for, they change overtime, and they can change again if people actually get involved in politics. If not real force might be necessary but if we can't even get people to get out and fucking vote or take part in an election I'm doubting your gonna find very many people willing to actually fight.
This. While the current system is corrupt and pretty much shot to hell, we live in a society where we can have conversations like this...any society where such communication is allowed (or happens for that matter) will slowly work towards bettering itself. The mere fact we can look at the current state of things and realize that they are messed up is enough to start the slow process of change. So many people nowadays want an instant solution, but that doesn't exist. Any political policy or law will take years before its effects are fully seen. There is no instant fix, its a long and slow process to better humanity - and comparing where we are as a race now compared to a few thousand years ago, I'd say (in the long run), we're still on the right track even if we screw stuff up every now and then.
Edited by focker919 (05/06/11 05:13 PM)
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dondoodle
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/09
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: focker919]
#14411453 - 05/06/11 05:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
focker919 said: This. While the current system is corrupt and pretty much shot to hell, we live in a society where we can have conversations like this...any society where such communication is allowed (or happens for that matter) will slowly work towards bettering itself. The mere fact we can look at the current state of things and realize that they are messed up is enough to start the slow process of change. So many people nowadays want an instant solution, but that doesn't exist. Any political policy or law will take years before its effects are fully seen. There is no instant fix, its a long and slow process to better humanity - and comparing where we are as a race now compared to a few thousand years ago, I'd say (in the long run), we're still on the right track even if we screw stuff up every now and then.
No, sorry simply having a society where conversations might change things, will not change things. The political system is very cognizant of stopping social change. When was the last time you heard somebody in your work place stand up for open space for political dialogue? The workplace is socially controlled and so are the schools however dont get me wrong I am fully for creating change that ends these despicable wars and that it is theoretically possible to open up social space but the barriers are huge and social control is well institutionalized.
A real solution is to end U.W.P United War Party (Democrat and Republican) based on principles. Until you have that movement started or a mass anti-war movement started you will accomplish nothing within the political system.
-------------------- End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.
Edited by dondoodle (05/06/11 05:47 PM)
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focker919
Stranger
Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 32
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dondoodle]
#14411486 - 05/06/11 05:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dondoodle said: No, sorry simply having a society where conversations will change things will not change things. The political system is very cognizant of stopping social change. When was the last time you heard somebody in your work place stand up for open space for political dialogue? The workplace is socially controlled and so are the schools however dont get me wrong I am fully for creating change that ends these despicable wars and that it is theoretically possible to open up social space but the barriers are huge and social control is well institutionalized.
A real solution is to end U.W.P United War Party (Democrat and Republican) based on principles. Until you have that movement started or a mass anti-war movement started you will accomplish nothing within the political system.
Honestly I think were agreeing here...The current state of things must change, meaning the current political parties must die or change drastically. My point is that such change would be completely impossible if we couldn't talk about it in any way shape or form. Things have started changing increasingly faster since the dawn of the internet a bit over a decade ago, because no matter how much governing bodies try it is impossible to completely control. It also allows for complete strangers like you and I to exchange our ideals, which is the first step to creating this coalition of change. Like I said, shits messed up, but if we lacked the ability to recognize it we would never be able to change it.
Edited by focker919 (05/06/11 05:41 PM)
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dondoodle
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/09
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Mycjunky]
#14411507 - 05/06/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycjunky said: So your honestly claiming the founding fathers setup the system in order to dominate and control us? I agree that is where we are at but that's not how the system was originally setup. There are many ways to stop corruption aside from totally destroying our current system.
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. That is why they had a senate appointed by governors and woman, blacks, and native people were disenfranchised.
The founding fathers were not a monolithic group but most all of them were rich white males willing to disenfranchise those who were not like them and put their financial interests above equality. I know you will cite the preamble but those words were belied by the acts in the constitution.
Quote:
I understand that currently the candidates are run by money, the media is run by money, it's all run by money and extremely bias all around continuing our current situation. It's not always been like that however. The two-party system was in affect back when we still had a foreign policy of isolationism. The system has evolved into a very corrupt system totally run by mainstream media, big business, and money. However that's not totally the fault of the two-party system there are many other factors at play that are manipulating the parties as well.
The foreign party of so called isolationism existed while the native people were being wiped out and war was being undertaken against the French, English and Mexico among other nations. That Isolationism is a terrible myth and fear mongering tool which both wings of the One United War Party use to their advantage.
Quote:
You do realize there were times neither party stood for anything they currently stand for, they change overtime, and they can change again if people actually get involved in politics. If not real force might be necessary but if we can't even get people to get out and fucking vote or take part in an election I'm doubting your gonna find very many people willing to actually fight. However if it does come to that, and it wouldn't surprise me if it did, I'll be there with you to overthrow the corrupt government we are stuck with. Until there's enough support for that though, I'm willing to try the next best thing that some do support.
I have to be repetitive and say voting for either of the war parties (democrat or republican) is actually voting for your enemy. I'm for legal political change but but I am also for protest too. I'm not even talking about violent change, although the state and UWP will both try to use violence against anyone who threatens their political and economic monopoly/duopoly. Peaceful change is possible but only when you have a mass movement and or political party that is rejecting the war parties both Democrat and Republican; based on principles.
-------------------- End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.
Edited by dondoodle (05/06/11 05:51 PM)
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Mawkiie42o
SleepWalker42o


Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 71
Last seen: 11 years, 9 days
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dondoodle]
#14411584 - 05/06/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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GO RON PAUL! & Son RAN PAUL!
I like they're aspects. Fin.
-------------------- Living for what you'll die for.
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dondoodle
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: focker919]
#14411591 - 05/06/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
focker919 said:
Quote:
dondoodle said: No, sorry simply having a society where conversations will change things will not change things. The political system is very cognizant of stopping social change. When was the last time you heard somebody in your work place stand up for open space for political dialogue? The workplace is socially controlled and so are the schools however dont get me wrong I am fully for creating change that ends these despicable wars and that it is theoretically possible to open up social space but the barriers are huge and social control is well institutionalized.
A real solution is to end U.W.P United War Party (Democrat and Republican) based on principles. Until you have that movement started or a mass anti-war movement started you will accomplish nothing within the political system.
Honestly I think were agreeing here...The current state of things must change, meaning the current political parties must die or change drastically. My point is that such change would be completely impossible if we couldn't talk about it in any way shape or form. Things have started changing increasingly faster since the dawn of the internet a bit over a decade ago, because no matter how much governing bodies try it is impossible to completely control. It also allows for complete strangers like you and I to exchange our ideals, which is the first step to creating this coalition of change. Like I said, shits messed up, but if we lacked the ability to recognize it we would never be able to change it.
Well if you truly agree with opposing both wings of the United War Party and opposing the drug war and imperialist wars, then I think we can work together and I am not talking just on the message board either.
-------------------- End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.
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Satival
Stranger

Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: dondoodle]
#14411648 - 05/06/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Holy shit! Never thought I'd see a GOP arguing for legal heroin... and so eloquently!
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: thelivingfreekshow]
#14412055 - 05/06/11 07:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
thelivingfreekshow said:




pICKING UP SOME STEAM!!!!!!
dude. fuck yeah
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Satival]
#14412062 - 05/06/11 07:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Satival said: Holy shit! Never thought I'd see a GOP arguing for legal heroin... and so eloquently!
he aint your average GOP candidate. He's libertarian, which is closer to conservative then liberal.
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dondoodle
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: Satival]
#14412246 - 05/06/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Satival said: Holy shit! Never thought I'd see a GOP arguing for legal heroin... and so eloquently!
Yeah, they give you one or two candidates to keep people foolishly voting for a party which is oppressing you domestically and destroying millions of lives while slaughtering millions abroad. Then people are foolish enough to point to Ron Paul and say "look that's great" and then proceed to actually vote for the party which is oppressing them.
-------------------- End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.
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Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Ron Paul defends legal heroin at GOP debate (goodread!) [Re: realfuzzhead]
#14412448 - 05/06/11 08:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Fuzzhead - bullshit.
"Conservative" means a lot of things to a lot of people. Don't forget that the KKK and the folks who do and wish they could murder illegal immigrants in Mexico and some of the most unabashedly blind and non-critically thinking individuals this country knows - the Christians all vote Republican and consider themselves conservative.
Just because you're thinking of all the bad connotations of liberals (spend money on social programs that are BS and enact a bunch of legislation against issues like gun rights) doesn't mean that "Conservatives" are any closer to some "truth".
Both parties in this country suck. All parties all over the world suck. All of them offer you different percentages of your freedom in different sections of the pie. All of them divide us and make you see your neighbor, or the guy across town as someone that's "on the other team".
This country won't be free until government is abolished and enclaves are allowed to develop which mutually trade and respect each other and agree to peace. Different areas would have different rules but all would be based on a Voluntaryist basis, which is the minimal requirement of a society and can be defined as a social consensus to not initiate violence or force against other individuals or their property.
Some regions would be such abberations of this rule as to not be considered Voluntaryist at all anymore, but that would be the choice of the inhabitants of that region to define their own rules for living.
I'd choose to live in a community starting with Voluntaryist principles and remaining there. New laws could be passed with a 95-98% vote in favor through a system of direct democracy. I think this could help to deal with circumstances that may arise in the future that couldn't be foreseen at the time of creation of the enclave.
Either way, this shit doesn't work. Look at what these shitheads have done:
http://www.creditloan.com/blog/2008/10/30/americans-debt-to-income-ratio-as-compared-with-other-countries/
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
http://www.creditloan.com/blog/2009/06/05/gdp-vs-national-debt-by-country/
Government creates a new aristocratic class. Individuals that are in the public sector, but most especially governmental and law enforcement/security agencies earn incredible amounts of money for the "services" they provide, especially relative to the private sector, they are oftentimes permitted to behave in a manner that is not consistent with the law, and don't face consequences as a result of their actions. These "actions" include and in some cases surpass murder and accidental homicide, in some cases including torture -
#
Resisting with violence isn't the answer. If you cut off the head of the hydra, two will grow in its place.
Instead, don't feed the troll. Stop paying the federal government and it *will* go away. Don't pay whatever taxes you can get away with.
--------------------

Edited by Humility (05/06/11 08:52 PM)
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