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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14405967 - 05/05/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
F. Sanger was a fucking genious. He developed methods of sequencing proteins and DNA etc. which were like a corner stone in biochemistry/genetics n biology for the last half century or so.




Another genius, Carl Woese, applied Sanger's method to study the rRNA of microbes that live in extreme conditions, like the methane vents on the ocean floors that are perhaps the most likely place for life to have started on Earth.

He discovered that the cells exhibited properties of both eukaryotes (cells with nuclei like plants, animals, fungi) and prokaryotes (no nucleus, like bacteria) he called this third domain of life Archaea.

His discovery shows that all life did not evolve from distinct and separate lines of decent, and are really just different levels of organization. He said "biology is a study in emergent levels of increasingly complex organization."

he also stressed the importance of Horizontal Gene Transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

Carl Woese showed that the evolution of cellular structures was far more cooperative than competitive. When you consider the impact of social darwinism, this is one of the most important discoveries in modern science.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: deCypher]
    #14405998 - 05/05/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Richard Dawkins' books The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker are two of the most lucid and insightful books on evolution and natural selection that I've read.  Regardless of his antagonism towards religion, the guy's quite intelligent.



I'll grant that he's intelligent.  Genius?  I don't think so.  His "selfish gene" theory helped advance the Neo-Darwinian synthesis, but it hardly compares to the work of Tesla or Mozart or Da Vinci.  And when he ventures outside of biology, such as with his anti-religious books, he's just plain ignorant.  I'm not sure I would even put Darwin himself in the genius category.  Sure, his theory was groundbreaking, but it basically just amounted to applying Malthus' economic theories to biology.  He was a smart guy, but he was no Newton or Einstein.

It's hard for me to really think of any recent scientific geniuses.  A lot of people point to Stephen Hawking, but he's really more of a science popularizer.  The way he's perceived among the public differs radically from the way he's perceived among physicists.  I think Richard Feynman would be a better candidate, though his bashing of philosophy strikes me as infantile.  I think the last major scientific geniuses were Einstein and the various pioneers of quantum physics.

However, two modern polymaths who I think I would say are geniuses are Douglas Hofstadter and Jared Diamond.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14406023 - 05/05/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think there are plenty of genius people in science that just aren't given much due credit... obviously there are since the rate of technological advancement has skyrocketed.


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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14406042 - 05/05/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I think the great minds are the ones who dedicate there lives to bringing nature back to its former glory and building a wholly sustainable future for the countless generations to come. There the ones who's actions will have a impact that will resonate throughout our history and bring us true gains both in wisdom and life. Not some scientist figuring out the exact mathematical equations to the physics of this universe or the life cycles of cosmic process's.




I agree, except that scientists who figure out the physics of the universe are, in fact, leading the ecological revolution. quantum physics shows that the universe can not be understood through reductionism, but must be viewed holistically. subatomic phenomena can only be understood through their interactions. The consciousness of the observer cant be taken out of the equation.

modern physics implies an ecological worldview where man is not separate from nature. All the problems of industrialization are founded in newton's mechanistic worldview, the true geniuses of our time transcend this paradigm.

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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #14406115 - 05/05/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

and from the environmental movement I add John Muir to the list. he was the first to propose, correctly, that Yosemite was formed by glaciers, and was instrumental in the creation of many of our natural parks. His religious views are very similar to transcendentalists, Emerson traveled across the country to meet him.

"We all flow from one fountain Soul. All are expressions of one Love. God does not appear, and flow out, only from narrow chinks and round bored wells here and there in favored races and places, but He flows in grand undivided currents, shoreless and boundless over creeds and forms and all kind of civilizations and people and beasts, saturating all and fountainising all" (John Muir: His Life and Letters 167)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem]
    #14406187 - 05/05/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Among philosophers, I'd say some of the biggest geniuses would be Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Leibniz, Hume, John Stuart Mill, John Dewey, and Bertrand Russell.


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14406255 - 05/05/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
John Stuart Mill




I would strongly disagree.

Though, first, I would have to hear your reasoning and what his philosophy means to you.
Because to me, most all of Utilitarianism, especially Mill's expression of it, is an extremely watered-down version of altruism.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14406262 - 05/05/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Saul Kripke


Quote:

Kripke has made influential and original contributions to logic, especially modal logic, since he was a teenager. Unusually for a professional philosopher, his only degree is an undergraduate degree from Harvard, in mathematics. His work has profoundly influenced analytic philosophy, with his principal contribution being a metaphysical description of modality, involving possible worlds as described in a system now called Kripke semantics.



Quote:

Kripke was labelled a prodigy, having taught himself Ancient Hebrew by the age of six, read the complete works of Shakespeare by nine, and mastered the works of Descartes and complex mathematical problems before graduating elementary school. He wrote his first completeness theorem in modal logic at the age of 17, and had it published a year later. After graduating from high school in 1958, Kripke attended Harvard University and graduated summa cum laude obtaining a bachelor's degree in mathematics. During his sophomore year at Harvard, Kripke taught a graduate-level logic course at nearby MIT. Upon graduation (1962) he received a Fulbright Fellowship, and in 1963 was appointed to the Society of Fellows.







This is the kind of stuff that makes me feel like an intellectual peasant for having to go to school. :frown:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Remix]
    #14406326 - 05/05/11 05:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
John Stuart Mill




I would strongly disagree.

Though, first, I would have to hear your reasoning and what his philosophy means to you.
Because to me, most all of Utilitarianism, especially Mill's expression of it, is an extremely watered-down version of altruism.



John Stuart Mill, though famous for his political and ethical philosophy, has a body of work that covers empiricism, economics, logic, and numerous other areas.  His utilitarian philosophy itself is far more nuanced than the caricature that its opponents like to make of it.  He advocated a philosophy of social liberalism, best explicated in his essay On Liberty.  He was one of the earliest feminists, though his book The Subjection of Women was not published until after his death.  He advanced the English philosophical school of empiricism well beyond the work of Locke and Hume, and in many ways anticipated the work of the American pragmatists.  His Principles of Political Economy was the standard economic textbook for nearly a century.  And as for utilitarianism, it is far from "watered-down altruism."  Like Buddhism, it identifies the central problem of the world as suffering, and seeks to mitigate that suffering as much as possible while also promoting the greatest happiness.  This may involve some degree of altruism, but not to the extent of destroying one's own happiness.

But even if you disagree with everything Mill said, it's hard to deny his genius.  By the age of 10, he had read the works of Plato and Herodotus -- in the original Greek.  That alone is enough to make him a genius.  Add to that the breadth of his intellectual work, and you have one of the greatest intellects of his age.


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InvisibleDelicious Apes
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #14406875 - 05/05/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dumb people trying to qualitatively rate the intelligence of geniuses, LOL.

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OfflineRemix
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14407015 - 05/05/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
John Stuart Mill, though famous for his political and ethical philosophy, has a body of work that covers empiricism, economics, logic, and numerous other areas.  His utilitarian philosophy itself is far more nuanced than the caricature that its opponents like to make of it.  He advocated a philosophy of social liberalism, best explicated in his essay On Liberty.  He was one of the earliest feminists, though his book The Subjection of Women was not published until after his death.  He advanced the English philosophical school of empiricism well beyond the work of Locke and Hume, and in many ways anticipated the work of the American pragmatists.  His Principles of Political Economy was the standard economic textbook for nearly a century.  And as for utilitarianism, it is far from "watered-down altruism."  Like Buddhism, it identifies the central problem of the world as suffering, and seeks to mitigate that suffering as much as possible while also promoting the greatest happiness.  This may involve some degree of altruism, but not to the extent of destroying one's own happiness.




Here's the thing. I would criticize "social liberalism" (and to a lesser extent, western interpretations of Buddhism) for the same reasons I would criticize Utilitarianism.
My criticism mainly stems from the fact that they all paint a picture of suffering as though it can be escaped. They compromise suffering for what it is: a necessary experience.

My opinion is that pain and suffering is not something that needs to be averted or subdued, on an individual or a societal level. Trying to "escape or get rid of suffering" is misunderstanding what suffering is. Granted, not many people actually want to experience pain or suffering - physically or emotionally - but this is only because this phenomenon is not always understood for what it is: an almost sentient calling for attention. Pain needs to be felt and, in addition, be understood so that it can "fulfill its purpose" in a way.
That's one of the first things I came to discover through the use of psychedelics. Bad trips can usually be traced to some sort of pain or suffering that you were ignoring and trying to "avert your gaze" from. The learning from such trips usually comes when one has decided to take action or "integrate" changes in their life based on the painful experience.

Quote:

Silversoul said:
But even if you disagree with everything Mill said, it's hard to deny his genius.  By the age of 10, he had read the works of Plato and Herodotus -- in the original Greek.  That alone is enough to make him a genius.  Add to that the breadth of his intellectual work, and you have one of the greatest intellects of his age.




I think being a genius has to involve some level of creativity or innovativeness.
Being able to dissect and read such works at the age of 10, I'll agree, does make one very intelligent. But someone who can do this, even in multiple languages, could still be an unoriginal and uncreative intellectual drone.


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Invisibleowls
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Remix] * 1
    #14407105 - 05/05/11 07:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lmao @ calling wiccan_seeker a genius. that's funny


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Offlinedoses
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem] * 1
    #14407173 - 05/05/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ted Kaczynski.  :unabomber:

Quote:

As a result of testing conducted in the fifth grade, which determined he had an IQ of 167...




:whoa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski


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OfflineFungal-one
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: eris]
    #14407279 - 05/05/11 08:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So I can read these later I posteth this


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OfflineKingEmblem
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14407340 - 05/05/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Among philosophers, I'd say some of the biggest geniuses would be Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Leibniz, Hume, John Stuart Mill, John Dewey, and Bertrand Russell.



Most famous philosophers were insanely smart. To some degree, to stand out in any field people must typically possess a genius of some type. Although I agree with people's views of intelligence as impossible to quantify, or measure in any meaningful way, at least through a test. I still believe genius exists...and I'm only interested in the extremes of a Da Vinci or Descartes, for the most part.

I would argue a more subtle, wide encompassing genius belonged to Albert Camus. His writing is leagues above most philosophers. It's pretty awful that he died so young. A mind like that would probably only increase in wisdom over the years and produce some delicious philosophical fruit. :shrug:


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Seuss]
    #14407389 - 05/05/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Leonard Euler was the man.  His name is peppered all over science and mathematics.  He was as near to a god as anyone gets on Earth. 

Joseph Baptiste Fourier.  This guy was one of those French mathematicians that paved the way for solutions to partial differential equations.

Carl Sagan had such an intriguing mind.  He was full of ideas and a really cool person.

Nikola Tesla was a fascinating individual and he does not get the credit that is due.

Quote:

Seuss said:
John von Neumann was insanely intelligent.  He was the father of the modern computer.




Wow, I'm surprised he is known on here.  He was a genius.  He liked to party too. I use Von Neumann stability analysis sometimes.

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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14407450 - 05/05/11 09:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Ronald Hadley Stark I think was a genius. This man synthesized over 20 kilos of LSD and hardly anyone knows his name as where Owsley synthed about half a kilo in his career. This guy through sheer confidence got into the inner circles of Terrorist organizations in the middle east, the brotherhood of eternal love, the CIA , Italian Revolutionary circles and Asian Mafias without any of them knowing about eachother.





Wow, that was a very interesting read.  Thank you Muscaria:thumbup:

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OfflineMLDSMDA
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem]
    #14407644 - 05/05/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nikola Tesla :wtfsonic:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: NetDiver]
    #14408596 - 05/06/11 04:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Spinoza.

He developed what is, to my mind, the greatest philosophical system in history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza#Philosophy

Quote:

Spinoza viewed God and Nature as two names for the same reality, namely the single substance (meaning "that which stands beneath" rather than "matter") that is the basis of the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually modes or modifications, that all things are determined by Nature to exist and cause effects, and that the complex chain of cause and effect is understood only in part.







Interesting :strokebeard:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: owls]
    #14408663 - 05/06/11 05:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lmao @ calling wiccan_seeker a genius. that's funny





You got me all figured out eh :awesomenod:


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