I couldn't catch everything but here's what I could catch from it:
Experimenter: The object of this presentation is to demonstrate the effect of MER-17, a new blocking agent, against the development of LSD-25 induced psychosis. We have used to healthy graduate students in psychology as subjects, but time permits us to show only one. On the first experimental day, Ronny, age 22, and weighing 175kg, was given 100 gamma of LSD-25 in distilled water, orally. This is a very small quantity of LSD-25, but our investigators report that it is enough to produce a temporary psychotic dissociation state in any healthy adult. The scene which follows shows what happened to Ronnie after he drank the LSD-25 solution. And if you will follow he clock you will be able to note time intervals accurately.
E: So how do you feel after an hour. R: Like I should be getting sick, uh, its uh, but it's different, in that I'm not, I mean I'd be sick by this time. E: Do you feel...almost the nausea? R: Almost is a good word. E: Anything else? R: Just dryness of throat, but I... it feels like...if I as if I did take a drink or something, I wouldn't keep it so uh. And there is a...I have to maintain my attention, it's an epic to uh, to uh, well, talk to you right now, for instance. Reality is fleeting. OE: Bill, we were talking to Ronnie, Ron, a while ago we separated you and Dick. Do you have any idea why we did that? R: Uh, no, it's uh...uh, yes I do, you just separated us to see how we would react. OE: Uh, you felt though that we were separating you to see how you alone, reacted, and you felt as if we were watching you, is that right or wrong? R: No, I uh, um, you hadn't been watching me one way or the other. OE: You don't think we're trying to pull anything on you? R: No. OE: You know alot of you assume that particular line of inquiry with Ronny was about the separation between the two boys. E: Uh, because I felt at the time of separation that Ronnie did have some very real paraonoid feelings and felt as though we separated the two of them so we could spy on Ronnie alone. OE: Yet when he sat down before the camera he wouldn't voice any of those paranoid ideas. E: No I think it's interesting that he was able to mobilize his defenses and to uh, deny that he did have those feelings at the time. I feel that they were really there, and I think he did show other evidences of paranoid feelings.
E: Ronnie, you look tired? Are you? R: Uh, yeah. E: Have you got anything in particular to report to me? R: No. E: Um, do you feel slowed up? R: Decidedly. E: How is your mood. Are you unhappy? R: No. E: You feel joy? R: No emotions. E: No emotions at all. Does it seem like you've been here a great long time? R: Uh, well, it's all time...(?). It's probably sometime in the afternoon is all I can tell you. E: Have you had any visual phenomenon or any auditory phenomenon. R: When I was out on the couch, nothing I can describe...there were uh...colors and things taking shapes. E: Were they geometric patterns or were they just sort of like a (batique?), did they just sort of run together or what? R: Um, I'm sorry, what? What were you? E: You forgot what I had asked you? R: Oh, uh, the auditory visual thing. Yeah, they were geometric in shape I'd say. E: Anything you'd like to do right now? R: No. E: If you had aladdin's lamp and could do anything in the world right now what would you do? R: Get rid of this nervousness, this apprehensiveness. E: Do you feel as though you are in contact with this situation, and with us, and with the people around you? E: I really don't know.
E: Ronnie, have you been sleeping for the past few minutes? R: Um, not exactly, no. E: You've been lying down on the bed. Have you been thinking about anything in particular? What did I ask you Ronnie? R: Um, you asked me if I were thinking about anything. E: Are you worried? R: No, I don't think so. E: You've been lying down and I want to talk to you. If I asked you how you felt, could you describe the way you feel? What did I ask you Ronnie? Ron? R: Yeah? E: What did I ask you? R: Um, how I felt or something I guess it was. E: Could you answer me? R: I feel alright. E: Ron? R: Hm? E:It's been six hours since you took that drink. Are you still feeling badly? R: Yeah. E: Um, do you know where you are? R: Yes. E: Where are you? R: Christ's Hospital. E: Has your mind been on anything in particular? Have you been thinking about anything in particular? R: No. E: Do you feel depressed? R: No. E: Do you feel elated? R: No. E: Have you been seeing anything by way of colors or have you been hearing anything unusual? R: No. E: If I were to ask you how you felt, could you tell me? E: I guess I am sad, depressed. That's about it. E: What sort of mental activity are you going through. R: Confusion. E: Well Ronnie you said that you thought the sun was in the wrong position when you looked out the window. R: Yeah, I lost time perception. E: Do you think that you're clearing at all or are you still quite mellow. R: I dont think anything in the last 15 minutes that there's been any improvement, no. E: Are you anxious are you fearful are you worried? R: I'm awfully nervous. E: What would you classify your mood as? R: My mood. Um, apprehensive. E: You know about (luck?)? R: No. E: What is your mental content been latey? Do you know what you have been thinking about? R: Just trying to keep things, true situations, trying to be aware of it, trying to stay in contact with reality. E: Have you felt it waxing and waning about reality? R: Well sometimes I've been confused about which is reality and which isn't, what what little situations I was aware of noises, for instance that uh, may have been to annoy me, and rather than investigate I sort of let them go. E: Can you describe for us how this thing was some hours back when you were in the middle of it? R: Just mass confusion is all, that's it, confusion. E: Would you say it was pleasant or unpleasant. R: I wasn't aware at the time of any pleasantness or unpleasantness, and uh, and I'm still not, I'm not aware of any pleasantness or unpleasantness, I'm emotionally (?) E: Well, Ronnie,do you think the picture shows the whole story of your LSD-25 experience? R: Not by a long-shot. E: The day after the experiment, you wrote out something about it. Would you mind reading a part of it? R: Not at all. I had been littled by way of visual hallucinations but what I considered the important thing, that, well, what's the word to describe it - dissociated plagued, pounded, weighed, all three are adequate to describe the horrible state I was in. All of them put together. Perhaps the central thing was suspicion and fear, that you would find out about me, or perhaps think things that were not true. My overwhelming concern became, are they doing this to find out how I'll act, are they deliberately rattling that damn paper to make me angry. On and on and on this went. And as was no doubt obvious, I decided to do as little as possible, so I wouldn't make mistakes. It was my confusion, the fact that I had to study the situation, to be careful that shall I say, racked me up. E: I believe that there was still a trace of that suspiciousness when we took you home that night? Would you mind telling us about the television experience? R: It's hard to believe, but joined the family to look at television in the living room. And I'll be damned if it wasn't talking in loaded phrases too. That made my reason take another step toward control, and I felt better. E: Well thank you very much,
Ronnie. This essentially parnoid type of reaction pattern has been described repeatedly by investigators of LSD-25 psychosis. E: During the next week, Ronnie was given a 5mg tablet of our new blocking agent twice daily. And one final tablet on the morning of the second experimental day. Our clinical experience with Meritran convinced us that this compound was quite different from any other central nervous system stimulus that we had known before, and we were interested in the effects of some of its isomers. When the nitrogen atom is moved from the alpha to the gamma position, an entirely new compound results pharmacologically. And it is this gamma isomer of Meritran which we have used as a blocking agent against LSD-25 psychosis. We were led to its use because of some dramatic though inconsistent results we had obtained when we used it on patients with schizophrenia. And now, let us return to Ronnie, and the second experimental day.
E: Good moring to you. R: Good morning. E: I believe you've been taking one 5mg of this compound twice daily throughout the last week. R: That's right. E: And you took one this morning. R: Yes sir. E: All right. Now here we are with one tenth of a mg of lsd in distilled water. Down the hatch. E: Well Ronnie, does it seem to be half an hour since you took the lsd? R: Yes sir. E: Have you got anything to report to us in this first half hour? R: Nothing. I wish there was something to report, it's uh.. E: It's been an hour since you've taken the lsd. What can you report to us? R: Well now I can definitely tell I have taken it. Um. But uh, my thoughts seem to be in good shape so far. E: Well Ronnie, it's been an hour and a half since you took the lsd and I noticed that you have increasing restlessness. R: Yeah. Um, extreme restlessness, yes sir, but my thoughts are in good control, I mean, um, I'm much more confident at this time than I was um.. E: It's been 2 hours now since you've taken the lsd. Does it seem that that's right. R: Yeah, yeah... E: There's been no distortion of time since. No passage of time. Well let's ask you first how your body feels. R: It feels fine, there's no sensations one way or the other. E: And now you've been restless, you do a lot of pacing for a while and then you lay down for a while. R: Yeah E: Now, what can we find out about your mental processes, have you had any feeling of drifting in and out of the world of reality at all. R: Well, um, no, no, I haven't. E: It's been three hours since you took the lsd. Does that seem about right to you? R: Yes, that's about right. E: And there has been no alteration or distortion in your sense of time. R: No, I don't think so. E: Has much transpired in the last half hour, or uh, as far as you're concerned? R: Well, nothing one way or the other, no. E: Now, uh, last week, you had the very uncomfortable feeling that all of us were indulging in double talk. Uh, is there any of that feeling? R: None whatsoever. I uh, I think I'd be a sort of a dissociative feeling. I don't have...that. E: Anything new to report to me at this time. R: I don't think there's anything new, it's uh...there's been no real change that I'm aware of. E: At three hours last week I asked you that if you had Aladdin's lamp and could get your most desired wish, you said that you would wish that something could be done to get rid the nervousness that you had. Would you answer in the same away again? R: I'm not sure, I uh, I think I'd be more aware of the possibilities of an offer today than I uh. E: Ronnie, what time does it seem to be? R: It's uh, somewhere oh I'd say 3:30 4:00 I'd say. W: Now uh, in the last half hour we've been having a general discussion, on philosophic things, the (pit) trials, and scientific method and so on? You seem to be sort of interested? R: I followed your conversation. E: If you could do exactly what you wanted to do right now, would you be doing anything different? What would you be doing? R: Well, uh, I could be home, if that's what you mean. I could probably be doing something a little more enjoyable. E: What would be enjoyable in your thinking right now. R: I don't know. Being outside, seems like a nice day out. E: Well Ronnie, we're right at the 5 1/2 hour after taking lsd period. You were just telling me outside that this is nothing like it was last week. R: It is nothing like it was last week. There are some of the same symptoms, and it seems like...they were ready to happen, but it just didn't, it doesn't. I mean, when I went to lie down, last Saturday I could have been easily swallowed up, and I was trying to do it then, just now, and it just didn't happen, that's all. E: You said last week when you lay down and closed your eyes, something closed over your mind. R: That's right. E:But you can't find that today, try as you will.
E: Well Ronnie, you wrote out your experience after the second episode of the two. Would you mind reading us part of it? R: Not at all. It was quite similar yet it was so very very different. For the first part my mind began racing and becoming entangled and eventually swallowed me up, despite my efforts. The second time, my efforts to fight it off were successful. In one sentence I think it might be summed up rather adequately by saying it was a fight both times, but the second time, I won. E: Well thank you very much.
E: There are probably many questions that you wish answered about this work. Q: Doctor, what dosage of the blocking agent have you found to be effective? E: We have ranged from 10 to 15 to 20 to 30, 50, and 100mg. There are individual differences. In the lower ranges, the blocking is not necessarily complete, but in the higher ranges it is so invariably. Q: Have you done this on any more subjects, Dr. Fagan? E: Yes, eight so far, in a double blind study. And the blocking effect was consistent. Q: Is a week of pre-treatment necessary in all cases? E: No sir, we have already discovered that 2 days of pretreatment suffices. And our guess is that it can be shortened even more. Q: Would you say that this drug has clinical applications? E: Well, time will tell. But we have been quite impressed with our clinical results so far, in some cases of acute schizophrenia, some cases of alcoholic hallucinoses, some senile hallucinatory states, and even a few cases of chronic schizophrenia. They represent about 60 cases in all. And furthermore we are continuing our experimental work with hallucinogenic drugs such as mescaline, cannabis, adrenochrome (?), etc. Are there any other questions? Q: Yes. Can MER-17 be used intravenously. And it's very interesting too. On Dec. the 18th 1954, Ronnie drank a second 100 gamma of LSD-25 without protection. Four and a half hours later, he was in an almost catatonic state. That that time, 10mg of MER-17 was given intravenously and repeated in 15 minutes. This brought about a complete cessation and dissolution of his LSD-25 psychosis. Look at the picture.
R: I'm right here. E: Do you feel that you're very close to us in your thinking. R: No, no. E: Can you tell me anything about what you have been thinking about? Is it too painful to talk about? Ron, how long does it seem to have been since you took the LSD? R: Um, couple hours I guess. E: Are you upset? R: No. E: Are you muddled? R: Yeah. E: Can you tell me anything about your thinking now? Ron? Can you tell me anything about your thinking now? R: I can't understand. E: How do you feel? R: All right. E: Does anything make much sense to you now? R: No. E: What seems to be the matter? R: Nothing. E: Can you think? R: No. E: Can you tell me what's going on inside your head? Ronnie, are you frightened? Are you fearful? R: No. E: Ron, we're going to give you an injection to see whether it makes you feel any better. I don't suppose you taste anything do you? Do you feel anything? R: No. E: All right. Now, about three minutes since you've taken the injection. What can you say about things now? R: I'm uh... E: Do things feel any, seem any clearer to you? R: They do, I don't know why. E: Can you elaborate then. R: I'm just not as confused, that's all. E: Now Ron it's been about 12 minutes since we gave you your injection. You just said that you feel like you have reality in your grasp and (???) R: That's right. E: Can you tell me anything more about it. R: It's...maybe I've said it, just a reorganization or a getting things in place again. E: Is it a pleasant comeback, as it were, or is it a disturbing to get things reorganized properly. R: No, uh, the more I can, the better I feel. E: Okay we're giving you a second injection about 17 minutes after the first. How are you feeling Ron? R: Um, like I'm waking up from a fever of some sort. E: Is it a pleasant feeling to be waking up from a fever like this? R: Well, pleasant to be back I guess. E: Bill is there any change in his blood pressure? B: No, his blood pressure and pulse remain essentially the same. E: Ronnie it's been 30 minutes since we gave you the first injection and 15 minutes since we gave you the second one. Now, let's try to say how you feel now. I know it's hard. R: Well, I haven't yet got a foundation from which I can speak. E: Do you think you feel differently than you did 30 minutes ago when you walked into this room? R: Yes, I guess I do, very much so. E: Now, Ronnie it's been an hour since we gave you your first (?) injection. I believe things have sort of come back into the proper perspective for you haven't they? R: I think so, yeah. E: Um, when you were under the lsd, you wanted to be in that room alone, you were fearful that there might be some sort of an invasion of your privacy, of your integrity, isn't that right? And now that's all cleared up, and you've got things straightened away. Is that right? R: I'm no longer anxiety ridden. E: Are you your normal self now? R: As nearly as I can tell I am, yeah.
R: You will probably be interested in my subjective reaction to this last experiment. The first and third experiments were similar of course, complete and insoluble confusion and anxiety reigned. And the knowledge that it was caused with a drug was my sole and small reassurance. One hallucination was that of lying flat on a slowly revolving cloud like object. There were other similar objects all around, touching gently and revolving in gear, I just rolled slowly down into the depths of this arrangement. Another one I recall is that of a flowerbed type of pattern, or perhaps a purposeless pinball machine, with the lights arranged in rows and columns, the lights or flowers, were growing then bursting in a regular fashion, one at the left, then at the center, and so on. Next occured the phenomenon that has happened both times I (lost?), and perhaps I have neglected to mention it previously. Things seemed to clear up, and I felt sane. Yet I knew I wasn't. I seemed to wake up to a new world, the same situation, same people and environment, and yet everything - that is my mental state, my life, had been altered. I was a stranger in this world, I could no longer speak to anyone as a person, and that was my state when I was given the shot, bewildered, confused, afraid to say a word until I could be sure which world I was in. I realized that what happened to me in those few minutes after the injections has a tremendous significance. Because of this realization, I have worked it over often since then. But God help me, I can't tell you a thing. It just happened. There was no crescendo, no fitting together the pieces, no breaking through the surface. All of a sudden I found myself willing to cooperate, able to follow conversations more easily, just less anxiety ridden. I don't know how or why. I'm sorry but that's all I can report.
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Edited by sandi (05/06/11 06:12 PM)
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