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OfflineKickleM
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self-indulgence
    #14389712 - 05/02/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What does it mean to self-indulge?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle]
    #14389978 - 05/02/11 05:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What comes to mind is worldly pleasures. I think it can be taken in both a negative and positive context. Everything in moderation, even moderation? :tongue:

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14390218 - 05/02/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What comes to mind is worldly pleasures.

For me too. I wonder why that is.


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleLuman
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Registered: 02/03/09
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle]
    #14392059 - 05/02/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Worldly pleasure has something of a negative connotation, from most spiritual viewpoints, naturally.  It is impermanent.  To self indulge is to willfully immerse yourself within any given temporal, "worldly pleasure", to me.

Not to say that these experiences are inherently worthless.  You can quickly garner information otherwise tricky to come by on psychedelics, for sure, and have wide, creative leaps about any given topic worth thinking about, or not.  But certainly, you'd call it self indulgence, though I would say there is little, if anything wrong with that.

Living in the now vs. living under the watchful eye of Eternity, you could say.  Something of two extremes, culminating at a certain viewpoint, yielding the beauty of a paradox.  The total sum being a worthwhile existence.


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"The soul?  Here we have no use for such frivolities."

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Invisibledonteatasians


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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Luman]
    #14392818 - 05/03/11 03:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

To let yourself be overwhelmed, immersed in, or obsessed with an act that has no importance in relation to your goals.  That is what it means to me.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Luman]
    #14392824 - 05/03/11 03:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Luman said:
Worldly pleasure has something of a negative connotation, from most spiritual viewpoints, naturally.  It is impermanent.  To self indulge is to willfully immerse yourself within any given temporal, "worldly pleasure", to me.




Likewise, non-indulgence in "worldy pleasures" is also impermanent. :rave:

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InvisibleLuman
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14393491 - 05/03/11 09:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Fortunately


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"The soul?  Here we have no use for such frivolities."

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Luman]
    #14393880 - 05/03/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Anyone ever just stop and wonder what any given experience is bringing to the self versus what the self is bringing to the experience? When I do that, the common understanding of self-indulgence seems backwards.


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OfflineOneU
Registered: 03/19/11
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle]
    #14395535 - 05/03/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yup, worldly pleasures comes to mind. For me it's so because I see truth within the deepest roots of my being more than I see in the external reflection. So to be attached to it and consume the pleasures frequently integrates me with the illusion and I witness myself pulling the veil back over my eye(s).

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #14398995 - 05/04/11 09:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
What does it mean to self-indulge?




posting on the shroomery :rofl:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: g00ru]
    #14399185 - 05/04/11 10:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:ilold:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleCups
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #14399238 - 05/04/11 10:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Anyone ever just stop and wonder what any given experience is bringing to the self versus what the self is bringing to the experience? When I do that, the common understanding of self-indulgence seems backwards.




:thumbup:

Very few people allow themselves that level of perspective IMO.  Hard to swallow that charity work is as self-serving as blowing 300K on a ferrari.  Feed the need baby.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Cups]
    #14399276 - 05/04/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

totally


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InvisibleCups
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle]
    #14399299 - 05/04/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You think true self-lessness is possible Kickle?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Cups]
    #14399313 - 05/04/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Only on a mental level. One can not think about themselves but actions will always show otherwise IMO.

But to lessen the sense of self on the mental level is beneficial in many ways. Or as some approach it, to expand the sense of self beyond just the individual body. MLK Jr seems to me to have attached his sense of self to his ethnicity. That gave him the ability to fight dearly for the rights of all blacks, not just himself. And as death threats became more and more serious, he was able to take comfort in the fact that even if he were to die before his dream was reached, the rest of the black community would make it.

Some see that as altruistic :shrug:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleCups
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle]
    #14399620 - 05/04/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well as you know I could easily deconstruct his life into a serious case of death anxiety which he combated by clinging to religion and affecting change which would lead to a kind of immortality for him and his cause.

Considering he's got a national holiday named after him I'd say he succeeded.  The fact remains that this drive pushed him to accomplish what he accomplished.  I could make a decent case for death anxiety being "programmed" in to "force" progress with little difficulty.

IMO The real question behind all of this is did he actually accomplish anything?

Somewhere in the galaxy there's an asteroid with our planet's name on it.  If it hit tomorrow, next week, next year whatever...and all this was gone- Did it mean anything?

It's such a simple question with a simple Yes or No answer...but I just don't know.

I realize that's a bit off topic but it's where my heads at today.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Cups]
    #14399747 - 05/04/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

He accomplished something for himself. And isn't that what it's all about ultimately? We don't know if that asteroid is coming or not, but we do have to live. May as well live in a way that is in accordance with one's beliefs.

Problem is when you don't believe anything in particular has any more value than anything else, and I think that's where you and I both stand at the moment. It can be tough because survival is the major thing seen driving any action. Bare-minimum is enough to survive so why do more?

My personal goals have shifted drastically over the course of time. Instead of desiring my worldly recognition and impact, all I want is a strong emotional base to operate from. So rather than focusing on the operations themselves, my gaze has shifted to the base from which these operations emerge. Unfortunately I don't know if that can ever be stable, and so coming to terms with that is my task. Accepting the instability...


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleCups
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle]
    #14402287 - 05/04/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey you get my 1000th post here Kickle!  :smile:

Quote:

Kickle said:
He accomplished something for himself. And isn't that what it's all about ultimately? We don't know if that asteroid is coming or not, but we do have to live. May as well live in a way that is in accordance with one's beliefs.




How does this concept play out if the concept of self is just that...a concept.  A fictional character fighting for fictional beliefs during a fictional "life". 

Reminds me of this for some reason-


When does the fantasy stop and the Life begin?

Quote:

Kickle said:Problem is when you don't believe anything in particular has any more value than anything else, and I think that's where you and I both stand at the moment. It can be tough because survival is the major thing seen driving any action. Bare-minimum is enough to survive so why do more?




If reality is as you say...then there is no "more" and no "bare-minimum".  There simply Is and Is Not.

Although, if we are without souls or selfs or whatever that there is no difference between Being and not-Being...since there is no Being to begin with.  That's a tongue twister.

We're getting pretty dismal pretty quick my friend.

I am of course not saying that is how it is...but it's possible.

Quote:

Kickle said:Instead of desiring my worldly recognition and impact, all I want is a strong emotional base to operate from. So rather than focusing on the operations themselves, my gaze has shifted to the base from which these operations emerge. Unfortunately I don't know if that can ever be stable, and so coming to terms with that is my task. Accepting the instability...




As you say, using yourself as the foundation for your emotional base is risky business.  To quote JC-

Quote:

The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash." Matthew 7:27




That's a tough life you're subscribing to man.  That's of course assuming there is a You filling out the subscriber info. LOL

I'm going to cut myself off here (ironic right) since I'm going a bit off topic and talking about stuff with no real answers. 

Anyway happy 1000th post to me! :birthday:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: self-indulgence [Re: Cups]
    #14402434 - 05/04/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How does this concept play out if the concept of self is just that...a concept.  A fictional character fighting for fictional beliefs during a fictional "life". 

It plays out because IMO it's all a part of the same story.
Doesn't matter if it's a dream, a fiction, or a reality - the story is happening.
You can't close your eyes and make it go away.
You can't pinch yourself and wake up.
This story is unfolding right here, right now.
May as well make an attempt at a story you would want to read/see.

If reality is as you say...then there is no "more" and no "bare-minimum".  There simply Is and Is Not.

True. "more" would be when effort is, "bare-minimum" would be when effort is not. No sense putting effort into an event that contains no more value than its absence or that of an alternative event. That's basically what I was trying to get at.


That's a tough life you're subscribing to man.  That's of course assuming there is a You filling out the subscriber info. LOL


I don't know whether to chuckle along or cringe :wink:
Sometimes it gets me down. Most times it doesn't.

When does the fantasy stop and the Life begin?

Hah! Don't touch that rabbit hole with a 10 foot pole!
Far as I can tell they exist symbiotically. There is no possible separation.
You want life? You want a fantasy. You want a fantasy? You want life.

:cheers:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineOneU
Registered: 03/19/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: self-indulgence [Re: Kickle]
    #14404984 - 05/05/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
When does the fantasy stop and the Life begin?

Hah! Don't touch that rabbit hole with a 10 foot pole!
Far as I can tell they exist symbiotically. There is no possible separation.
You want life? You want a fantasy. You want a fantasy? You want life.

:cheers:



:thumbup:

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