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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14397406 - 05/03/11 10:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

they never do. but now that they've gotten rid of this guy, even the people who seem to think 2 wrongs make a right, are not going to back down.


we got bin laden, an eye for an eye, his life for the lives of 9 11. so things are fair right?


well if so then this war on terror should be over, if we continue to invade other countries, like libya, afghanistan, etc.

you know what? i can't even finish, it just makes me sick that this fuck got a nobel peace prize. he is just as lousy of a president as bush was.


at least bush was painted as a piece of crap president from the start. if you are going to make an ugly face, call it an ugly face. if you are going to murder osama bin laden, call it murder.



but this whole 'we liberated ourselves from terror' bullshit just makes me sick.


the nigga is dead, he was murdered. call it what it is. when you see mike tyson knock someone out, you call it righteous, you call it bad ass, but you certainly don't call him "a nice guy that helps us all"


i hope we got what we wanted, that bin laden guy sure was a piece of shit, and had it coming. i just wish it hadn't taken 3 presidential terms to get rid of him. is it over, yet?



please let it be. i mean god damn namaste already.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: imachavel]
    #14397609 - 05/03/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Do you realize how many people where killed, and the way they were killed on 9/11????  Regardless of weather he was behind it or not, the majority of the world believes he is.  Now if that was in your backyard would you not want that person responsible (or perceived to be responsible) to pay???  Forget morals and religions.  You lose people dear to you... someone hurts your family, you will make that person pay! 
That's what just happened.  :hi:

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14397706 - 05/03/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well then i guess everything worked out fine


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: imachavel]
    #14397877 - 05/04/11 12:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

But I do agree w/ you w/ the whole violence begets violence.  It IS a slippery slope, but let's face it, majority of the population weather you're in the US or in some country in the Middle East or anywhere for that matter, people tend to have an innate tendency towards vengeance and violence.  Look at world history, it's packed full of examples.  I'm not saying it's right BUT that's just the way it is.  Me personally, I'm a New Yorker, and I could care less if he was killed or not... b/c the damage was done almost ten years ago.  His death doesn't help me out in anyway, but that's just me.  :shrug:  However, I do agree w/ his elimination b/c of his potential danger for future travesties.  This guy is up there w/ Hitler... maybe not in the sense of military force but in regards to his charisma, what he stands for and the influence he has over his followers.  You can't deny all of the videos that he made spewing evil, I don't care how much of a conspiracy theorist you are!
Now can anybody deny that the world was a better place w/o Hitler?  That's where I put Osama!

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: johnm214]
    #14397880 - 05/04/11 12:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

John your last post to me was a ridiculously convoluted ad hominem and I do not have the time or inclination to reply to it. I suggest you brush up on what a strawman arguement actually is as you love to bandy it around so much but do no appear to understand it. Out of interest, is English your native tongue?

If you wish to discuss whether the death of Osama has been proven beyond reasonable doubt and whether the US government can be considered trust worthy enough to believe without verfiable proof I will be happy to continue along that tangent but I will not be indulging any more of your pseudo-philisophical posturing as it grows tedious. Im sure you will want the final word and you are welcome to it.


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Offlinelines
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14398235 - 05/04/11 03:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Johnm24 ascribes to the notion that if you can degrade your opponent enough and shout the loudest then you have proven that your opponent is wrong in the debate. That's why I have him on ignore.

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Invisiblemister
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14401245 - 05/04/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OoBYCoO said:
Do you realize how many people where killed, and the way they were killed on 9/11????  Regardless of weather he was behind it or not, the majority of the world believes he is.  Now if that was in your backyard would you not want that person responsible (or perceived to be responsible) to pay???  Forget morals and religions.  You lose people dear to you... someone hurts your family, you will make that person pay! 
That's what just happened.  :hi:



:highfive:

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Bin Laden [Re: lines]
    #14401364 - 05/04/11 06:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lines said:
Johnm24 ascribes to the notion that if you can degrade your opponent enough and shout the loudest then you have proven that your opponent is wrong in the debate. That's why I have him on ignore.




Actually, he ascribes to the notion that if you make some asinine claim, then you had better be able to back it up with proof rather than blowing shit out your ass.  It may sound like he is trying to "shout the loudest", but that is because he doesn't ignore the claimant when they try to artful dodge his request for proof or his demand for logic.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: Seuss]
    #14401414 - 05/04/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, since when is proof on the agenda?

Some people are sooo selective on what they want proof for.

I guess it all depends on who your nemesis is.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Bin Laden [Re: Shins]
    #14401756 - 05/04/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> Some people are sooo selective on what they want proof for.

Actually, from what I have seen, with John, it is less about proof and more about sound logic.  He doesn't let people off the hook when they make fallacious arguments...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14403012 - 05/04/11 11:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OoBYCoO said:
But I do agree w/ you w/ the whole violence begets violence.  It IS a slippery slope, but let's face it, majority of the population weather you're in the US or in some country in the Middle East or anywhere for that matter, people tend to have an innate tendency towards vengeance and violence.  Look at world history, it's packed full of examples.  I'm not saying it's right BUT that's just the way it is.  Me personally, I'm a New Yorker, and I could care less if he was killed or not... b/c the damage was done almost ten years ago.  His death doesn't help me out in anyway, but that's just me.  :shrug:  However, I do agree w/ his elimination b/c of his potential danger for future travesties.  This guy is up there w/ Hitler... maybe not in the sense of military force but in regards to his charisma, what he stands for and the influence he has over his followers.  You can't deny all of the videos that he made spewing evil, I don't care how much of a conspiracy theorist you are!
Now can anybody deny that the world was a better place w/o Hitler?  That's where I put Osama!





i agree with you pretty much. he is up there with hitler, and i don't care much for his death at all. i don't feel very bad for the guy. i just felt kind of cold the day i heard he died, that americans were having some sort of wood stock or something, like wtf, 10 years later, and 2 wars with 3 terms of crappy politically corrupt incompetent presidents, that actually makes people happy?


no he doesn't deserve to live, and i'm glad he is dead. but i mean whatever.


as for hitler, i'd say hitler was about as cold, hitler ordered jews dead, obama orders his men to walk into the street and blow themself up, killing hundreds of civilians, thousands by now.

have to say hitler was balsier. i mean in the end maybe not, he shot himself. but hitler himself actually visited places he conquered, walking around freely not worried about snipers n shit. he made public speeches etc. maybe the circumstance was different. and obviously i know both hitler and osama had been in hard combat on numerous occasions prior to their leadership.


but at least hitler didn't spend his fucking life cowering in a cave sending out video tapes while everyone else did everything for him, idk.


idk maybe it was the same, maybe it was strategic importance and hitler never went too far out unless he was pretty sure everything was alright. i guess i wasn't alive when hitler was around, but i can tell you osama sure looked like a pussy.

but then again so do george bush and barack obama. at least george bush had the balls to fly into the middle east though to personally congratulate all the troops in the middle of the war. idk.


oh well, as much of a pussy as osama is, i guess he got what he deserved huh? he sure had it coming. now what? is this war over?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: imachavel]
    #14403108 - 05/05/11 12:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
I just felt kind of cold the day i heard he died, that americans were having some sort of wood stock or something, like wtf, 10 years later, and 2 wars with 3 terms of crappy politically corrupt incompetent presidents, that actually makes people happy?




I agree w/ you there too.  I believe Americans that reacted that way showed their "ugliness" to the world.  As much as I despise the guy and happy that he's dead, you will never see me jumping for joy for the death of any human being, but again that's just me.  I feel you have to be either ignorant, immature, or downright malevolent to show that type of jubilation over someones death.

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: imachavel]
    #14403367 - 05/05/11 01:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

i agree with you pretty much. he is up there with hitler,




Really? So where does that put those responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children during the 90's through barbaric sanctions? Or the +100,000 civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where do the families of these people turn for justice? Who do they label as "up there with Hitler"?

But of course, thats why we have people like Osama in the first place!

And so the merry-go-round continues.


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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14403506 - 05/05/11 03:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
And so the merry-go-round continues.



:nonono:  Sad but true and I see your point.  BUT you have to ask yourself who started it?

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14403535 - 05/05/11 03:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BUT you have to ask yourself who started it?




How will that help end the cycle?

But as you asked I would say the British started it. We invaded Iraq in 1914 and have a history of meddling there, and else where in the middle east, for our own selfish goals ever since.


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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14403553 - 05/05/11 03:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

But we aren't the Brits.  But I see your point and agree w/ u.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: lines]
    #14404784 - 05/05/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lines said:
Johnm24 ascribes to the notion that if you can degrade your opponent enough and shout the loudest then you have proven that your opponent is wrong in the debate. That's why I have him on ignore.





How do you shout the loudest on a message board?

Generally I see people making claims I find silly and argue the point. 

I can only assume your metaphor refers to either persistance or thoroughness, but I fail to see how either are a problem.  If the matter is discussed with long, duplicitous, text, then any reply need only address the minute point being made- however cumbersomely.  If the persistant rebuttal is duplicitious it can be dismissed as such.

When you examine the discussions in which people raise this complaint, such as this one, it seems pretty clear that the only reason it took so long to get to the bottom is that people shift their arguments, say shit they can't back up yet dishonestly mainain, or have a hissy fit about irrelevant matters- as gazzbutt aptly demonstrates above: he wastes time crying about me and yet providing nothing whatsoever to address the argument other than conclusory dismissals. Its difficult, then, for me to see how I could be particularly guilty of encumbering this discussion.

Like usual, I suspect no explanation will be provided and this whole side issue will remain another advanced then abandoned, undemonstrated, claim that took up time for nothing- quizzically blamed on the person who calls out the bullshit rather than the one continuing to produce it time-after-time.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14404921 - 05/05/11 11:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

i agree with you pretty much. he is up there with hitler,




Really? So where does that put those responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children during the 90's through barbaric sanctions? Or the +100,000 civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where do the families of these people turn for justice? Who do they label as "up there with Hitler"?

But of course, thats why we have people like Osama in the first place!

And so the merry-go-round continues.




Those sanctions would have ended it a flash if Saddam Hussein had done what he was supposed to do.  In fact, they never would have been imposed if Saddam Hussein had not been a lunatic thug.  I also think your numbers are total bullshit.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14404935 - 05/05/11 11:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

BUT you have to ask yourself who started it?




How will that help end the cycle?

But as you asked I would say the British started it. We invaded Iraq in 1914 and have a history of meddling there, and else where in the middle east, for our own selfish goals ever since.



:rofl2:

Maybe the Ottoman Turks who ran the area now called Iraq shouldn't have been on the wrong side in WW1.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14405715 - 05/05/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

i agree with you pretty much. he is up there with hitler,




Really? So where does that put those responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children during the 90's through barbaric sanctions? Or the +100,000 civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where do the families of these people turn for justice? Who do they label as "up there with Hitler"?

But of course, thats why we have people like Osama in the first place!

And so the merry-go-round continues.





whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa! :kingcrankey:




when did i disagree with you? absolutely it makes george bush and barack obama hitler. i think your numbers are a little dramatic, but absolutely. and hitler LOOKED evil(well maybe not to brainwashed german citizens) but he looked evil to everyone else, he killed his own people almost more than others. everyone thinks george bush is a fucking hero. this is taken from wikipedia:

"Two other women, who were also used as shields, were injured during the raid.[103] He also said that the al-Qaeda leader put up resistance, but was unarmed. Bin Laden was shot twice. A shot above his left eye blew away a part of his skull. He was also hit in the chest.[168]"

so that would mean that we murdered him. i mean do i give a shit? no. was the guy an evil piece of shit who deserved it, AB SO FUCKING LUTELY.

But the fact that it's ONCE AGAIN, sanctioned by our government to go ahead and shoot the fuck even if he's unarmed without a trial.... is, well typical. i mean yeah it's absolute horse shit. what can be said? this is just more lingering bullshit, which gave our government an excuse to continue to do whatever we wanted, countless murders, many of them civilian, to continue our war in whatever way we saw fit.






those people sure had it coming though..... :shrug:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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