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InvisibleCups
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Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised?
    #14403978 - 05/05/11 07:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story

Quote:

As the leader of Tibetan Buddhism, the 14th Dalai Lama says he practices compassion to such an extent that he tries to avoid swatting mosquitoes "when my mood is good and there is no danger of malaria," sometimes watching with interest as they swell with his blood.

Yet, in an appearance Tuesday at USC, he appeared to suggest that the United States was justified in killing Osama bin Laden.

As a human being, Bin Laden may have deserved compassion and even forgiveness, the Dalai Lama said in answer to a question about the assassination of the Al Qaeda leader. But, he said, "Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened. … If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures."




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What's up everybody?!


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Cups]
    #14404005 - 05/05/11 07:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Compassion sometimes means taking action against a member of a group for the good of the whole.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14404016 - 05/05/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Compassion sometimes means taking action against a member of a group for the good of the whole.




Only sometimes?


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14407209 - 05/05/11 08:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

doesnt bother me at all, i approve of the bin laden hit. and that's completely compatible with a practice of compassion (not saying im on the same level as the dalai lama, that man seems to radiate chillness to me)


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: g00ru]
    #14407248 - 05/05/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14407265 - 05/05/11 08:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I guess I see America as an agent of karma in that situation...ya, it'd be better if we just held a completely non violent policy in any way humanly possible, but as far as the political reality of the world i don't see anything wrong with it, and that's the perspective the dalai lama has to speak from as a global political agent


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14407519 - 05/05/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




:thumbup:


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OfflineOneU
Registered: 03/19/11
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: deff]
    #14407599 - 05/05/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Bin Laden can take a lifetime to get to the bottom of. He was an agent of the US, there were fake videos of him when he was "hiding" and considered real by the military (yet never answered why he looked completely different) and now, the most wanted man by the FBI/CIA's "body" is captured dead only to show the only "good" it did was boost up Obama's rankings.

Shit's backwards lately. Compassion is being able to unconditionally Love all without the need to help or correct them. This was the definition a man of true medicine gave me and resonated with me. Dali Lama is innocent so he believes the US and thought this was a man who murdered thousands upon thousands and wanted to do more and the only way to stop him was kill him or capture him.


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Cups]
    #14410584 - 05/06/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story

Quote:

As the leader of Tibetan Buddhism, the 14th Dalai Lama says he practices compassion to such an extent that he tries to avoid swatting mosquitoes "when my mood is good and there is no danger of malaria," sometimes watching with interest as they swell with his blood.

Yet, in an appearance Tuesday at USC, he appeared to suggest that the United States was justified in killing Osama bin Laden.

As a human being, Bin Laden may have deserved compassion and even forgiveness, the Dalai Lama said in answer to a question about the assassination of the Al Qaeda leader. But, he said, "Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened. … If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures."







From this quote I think the Dalai Lama handled it like a freakin' pro. IMO he has a lot of things to contend with in terms of compassion. The first is, the man he could have shown compassion to is dead and any compassion is best placed on those still living. Second, what provides the greatest degree of compassion? IMO walking the fine political line that the Dalai Lama walked is showing the greatest degree of compassion to the largest amount of people. He has a lot of refugees to care for, and condemning the US would probably not be a compassionate move for the well-being of these people. Also, trying to convince the soldiers that they did something heinous is probably not a positive influence either.

True compassion is not rooted in idealism. I suspect that what the Dalai Lama's ideal world is, is not what exists. To only show compassion when an ideal appears is not very compassionate at all.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineivander
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Kickle]
    #14410805 - 05/06/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)


Whatever the case.. I agree with cosmo. I dont like what lama said this time. Something smells wrong. A wizard should know better.


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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Offlineauxiliary
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: ivander]
    #14410840 - 05/06/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think we really know enough to say either way. I mean, not that 9/11 was justified, but the american people don't exactly know what goes on over seas...


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: ivander]
    #14410843 - 05/06/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

not suprised at all. He also said that the USA was an example of working democracy and an example of freedom for the rest of the world.



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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: deff]
    #14410879 - 05/06/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:

Whatever the case.. I agree with cosmo. I dont like what lama said this time. Something smells wrong. A wizard should know better.



I :lol: COD gets me so enraged i could shit blood sometimes
Quote:

deff said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




:thumbup:



:thumbdown:


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14410901 - 05/06/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
Quote:

ivander said:

Whatever the case.. I agree with cosmo. I dont like what lama said this time. Something smells wrong. A wizard should know better.



I :lol: COD gets me so enraged i could shit blood sometimes
Quote:

deff said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




:thumbup:



:thumbdown:



:thumbup:


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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14411113 - 05/06/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

First prove that osama caused 9/11 without a shadow of a doubt.

Next, prove without a shadow of a doubt that he was in fact killed. Last I heard they killed him and dumped his body in the ocean.. and 'took pictures to prove all the conspiracy theorists wrong'. Yeah, because in this day and age with photoshop, pictures are legit stuff bro. :tard:


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OfflineOneU
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: foliocb]
    #14411157 - 05/06/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Prove anything without a shadow of doubt.


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14411188 - 05/06/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




Not if that elderly dialysis patient were responsible for thousands of murders...I condone it, and let it be a warning to the rest of em.
            Although, Im with you on the secret prison deal, fuck that shit, and keeping people for life even if there is no evidence against them, is deplorable at best.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama [Re: foliocb]
    #14411294 - 05/06/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

foliocb said:
First prove that osama caused 9/11 without a shadow of a doubt.

Next, prove without a shadow of a doubt that he was in fact killed. Last I heard they killed him and dumped his body in the ocean.. and 'took pictures to prove all the conspiracy theorists wrong'. Yeah, because in this day and age with photoshop, pictures are legit stuff bro. :tard:



I dont believe bullshit propaganda. Ben laden had nothing to do with 9/11. he is a cia twat . The pentagon has a war agenda, purely for economical reasons, so that they can steal natural ressources from other countrys. The quest for capturing this boogey man is pure Media fabrication.  :arabs:


Edited by Vsnares.Zappa (05/06/11 04:57 PM)


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: thelivingfreekshow]
    #14411563 - 05/06/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




Not if that elderly dialysis patient were responsible for thousands of murders...I condone it, and let it be a warning to the rest of em.
            Although, Im with you on the secret prison deal, fuck that shit, and keeping people for life even if there is no evidence against them, is deplorable at best.




Does that give someone the right to murder George W. Bush for authorizing two wars which are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives? I don't think so. The world is not that black and white.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14411582 - 05/06/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




Not if that elderly dialysis patient were responsible for thousands of murders...I condone it, and let it be a warning to the rest of em.
            Although, Im with you on the secret prison deal, fuck that shit, and keeping people for life even if there is no evidence against them, is deplorable at best.




Does that give someone the right to murder George W. Bush for authorizing two wars which are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives? I don't think so. The world is not that black and white.



:thumbup:


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Offlineauxiliary
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14412084 - 05/06/11 07:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




Not if that elderly dialysis patient were responsible for thousands of murders...I condone it, and let it be a warning to the rest of em.
            Although, Im with you on the secret prison deal, fuck that shit, and keeping people for life even if there is no evidence against them, is deplorable at best.




Does that give someone the right to murder George W. Bush for authorizing two wars which are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives? I don't think so. The world is not that black and white.



:thumbup:



:thumbup:


--------------------


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14412119 - 05/06/11 07:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




Not if that elderly dialysis patient were responsible for thousands of murders...I condone it, and let it be a warning to the rest of em.
            Although, Im with you on the secret prison deal, fuck that shit, and keeping people for life even if there is no evidence against them, is deplorable at best.




Does that give someone the right to murder George W. Bush for authorizing two wars which are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives? I don't think so. The world is not that black and white.



:thumbup:




But, here we are.


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OfflineOneU
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: thelivingfreekshow]
    #14412250 - 05/06/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Bush did get the approval of congress. Obama didn't on this Libyan "no fly zone" which is war renamed. However, we really are not in a black and white world. The news coverage certainly relies on these extremes to make money and this is what the masses like to hear. They want to be thrilled about a story of danger or a story of heroism.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: OneU]
    #14412295 - 05/06/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Capitalism feeds on War IMO.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: OneU]
    #14412329 - 05/06/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OneU said:
The news coverage certainly relies on these extremes to make money and this is what the masses like to hear. They want to be thrilled about a story of danger or a story of heroism.




Exactly, the machine needs the "axis of evil", to quote Bush. If we started looking at each other as human beings, as brothers and sisters, and not "the other", wars wouldn't make sense.


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14412432 - 05/06/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

OneU said:
The news coverage certainly relies on these extremes to make money and this is what the masses like to hear. They want to be thrilled about a story of danger or a story of heroism.




Exactly, the machine needs the "axis of evil", to quote Bush. If we started looking at each other as human beings, as brothers and sisters, and not "the other", wars wouldn't make sense.



This utopia you describe will never happen.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14412473 - 05/06/11 08:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps not, brother.


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14412536 - 05/06/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I suppose it cant hurt to try


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14412553 - 05/06/11 09:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If the path to progress is discarded, then the other choice is collective suffering


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14412555 - 05/06/11 09:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hell yea, and imagine if we all did try, just for one day. :cool:


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OfflineOneU
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14412568 - 05/06/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh there will be much more than trying. Soon, very soon the veil will fall for the purpose of cosmic balance and "..the pain will be washed away by the flow of truth and those who have disgraced this Earth will suffer by their own choices..."


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: OneU]
    #14412750 - 05/06/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:rofl2:


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: OneU]
    #14412812 - 05/06/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OneU said:
Oh there will be much more than trying. Soon, very soon the veil will fall for the purpose of cosmic balance and "..the pain will be washed away by the flow of truth and those who have disgraced this Earth will suffer by their own choices..."



Nostradamus?

Some scary shit right thar


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OfflineOneU
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14412933 - 05/06/11 10:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why does that sound scary..?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14414055 - 05/07/11 07:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




Not if that elderly dialysis patient were responsible for thousands of murders...I condone it, and let it be a warning to the rest of em.
            Although, Im with you on the secret prison deal, fuck that shit, and keeping people for life even if there is no evidence against them, is deplorable at best.




Does that give someone the right to murder George W. Bush for authorizing two wars which are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives? I don't think so. The world is not that black and white.


Bush's orders were legitimate acts of war, whereas what the terrorists did on 9/11 was a surprise attack on innocent civilians; it's ridiculous to compare Bush to Islamic terrorists in such a fashion IMO.


Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

OneU said:
The news coverage certainly relies on these extremes to make money and this is what the masses like to hear. They want to be thrilled about a story of danger or a story of heroism.




Exactly, the machine needs the "axis of evil", to quote Bush. If we started looking at each other as human beings, as brothers and sisters, and not "the other", wars wouldn't make sense.


You're saying this as if you are under the bizarrely skewed impression that Islamic terrorists are just as innocent as ordinary American people. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: foliocb]
    #14414101 - 05/07/11 07:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

foliocb said:
First prove that osama caused 9/11 without a shadow of a doubt.


He admitted it himself:
Quote:

On October 29, 2004, at 21:00 UTC, the Arab television network, Al Jazeera, broadcast excerpts from a videotape of Osama bin Laden addressing the people of the United States, in which he accepts responsibility for the September 11, 2001 attacks, condemns the Bush government's response to those attacks and presents those attacks as part of a campaign of revenge and deterrence motivated by his witnessing of the destruction in the Lebanese Civil War in 1982.




Quote:

foliocb said:
Next, prove without a shadow of a doubt that he was in fact killed.


There is a lot of reliable evidence which suggests that he was.

Death of Osama bin Laden
Quote:

Al Qaeda confirmed the death in May 6 posts on jihadist websites, vowing to avenge the killing...One or two women from the compound, including one of bin Laden's wives, identified bin Laden's body after death..A wife of bin Laden also apparently called him by name during the raid, inadvertently assisting in his identification by U.S. armed forces on the ground...Both the corpse and bin Laden were 6 ft 4 in (193 cm); SEALs on the scene did not have a tape measure to use for measuring the corpse, so a DEVGRU operator of known height lay down next to the body and the height was approximated by comparison...CNN cited senior U.S. official as saying three sets of photographs of bin Laden's body exist: Photos taken at a hangar in Afghanistan, described as the most recognizable and gruesome; photos taken from the burial at sea on the USS Carl Vinson before a shroud was placed around his body; and photos from the raid itself, which include shots of the interior of the compound as well as three of the others who died in the raid.




Quote:

foliocb said:
Last I heard they killed him and dumped his body in the ocean.. and 'took pictures to prove all the conspiracy theorists wrong'. Yeah, because in this day and age with photoshop, pictures are legit stuff bro. :tard:


Well, then it's a good thing that we have more than just mere pictures to go by, isn't it? See how much you can learn with a simple Wikipedia search? :grin:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414270 - 05/07/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poid said: Bush's orders were legitimate acts of war, whereas what the terrorists did on 9/11 was a surprise attack on innocent civilians; it's ridiculous to compare Bush to Islamic terrorists in such a fashion IMO.



There is not legitimate killing, imo, whether its surprise attack or not. To focus on such comparisons, is way of the point.
This whole story is strange to me.. While the court in Hague prosecute those criminals off war, trough democracy, and 'fair' trial... others are just forced upon guillotine, like we are in middle ages. We should ask ourselves is this act for better or worse.. and who gains and who watches. Also it seems to me like this was desperate act of something.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414360 - 05/07/11 09:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think there is something wrong with shooting an elderly unarmed dialysis patient... In America we used to believe in trials, now we settle for the firing squads and secret prisons. :thumbdown:




Not if that elderly dialysis patient were responsible for thousands of murders...I condone it, and let it be a warning to the rest of em.
            Although, Im with you on the secret prison deal, fuck that shit, and keeping people for life even if there is no evidence against them, is deplorable at best.




Does that give someone the right to murder George W. Bush for authorizing two wars which are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives? I don't think so. The world is not that black and white.


Bush's orders were legitimate acts of war, whereas what the terrorists did on 9/11 was a surprise attack on innocent civilians; it's ridiculous to compare Bush to Islamic terrorists in such a fashion IMO.





I don't even know where to start... What makes an act of war "legitimate"? Are you saying killing in the name of a state is somehow superior to terrorism? It's the same outcome. Tell that to the Islamic World who doesn't see it from your American bubble perspective. Try and put yourself in the shoes of the Afghan civilian population.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: ivander]
    #14414366 - 05/07/11 09:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

poid said: Bush's orders were legitimate acts of war, whereas what the terrorists did on 9/11 was a surprise attack on innocent civilians; it's ridiculous to compare Bush to Islamic terrorists in such a fashion IMO.



There is not legitimate killing, imo, whether its surprise attack or not.


Sure, not even self-defense is acceptable. :what:

Obviously, that the attacks which occurred on 9/11 were made by surprise (and on innocent civilians) adds to their cruelty factor--sucker punches (akin to 9/11) are not the same thing as punches given in a fight that you did not instigate (akin to our response to 9/11), not even close.


Quote:

ivander said:
To focus on such comparisons, is way of the point.


"The way of point"? :wtf: 

Anyways, such a comparison is retarded--some violence is justifiable, and to compare an instance of non-justifiable violence to an instance of justifiable violence as being remotely similar (in terms of justification) is just plain ridiculous.


Quote:

ivander said:
This whole story is strange to me.. While the court in Hague prosecute those criminals off war, trough democracy, and 'fair' trial... others are just forced upon guillotine, like we are in middle ages. We should ask ourselves is this act for better or worse.. and who gains and who watches. Also it seems to me like this was desperate act of something.


Obviously, you didn't read the news articles very well:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/05/05/2011-05-05_the_house_of_terror_li_all_in_the_evil_family_at_hideout_before_the_seals_came_m.html
Quote:

The unarmed Bin Laden, after making a move toward the SEALs, was then fatally shot in the chest and the head as blood spattered across his refuge.



He made a threatening move, the SEALs were more-than-justified to take fire on him, this was not some sort of medieval execution.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Dali Lama [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14414401 - 05/07/11 09:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I don't even know where to start... What makes an act of war "legitimate"?


You can start by doing a quick Wikipedia search:

Laws of war
Quote:

Example substantive laws of war

To fulfill the purposes noted above, the laws of war place substantive limits on the lawful exercise of a belligerent’s power. Generally speaking, the laws require that belligerents refrain from employing violence that is not reasonably necessary for military purposes and that belligerents conduct hostilities with regard for the principles of humanity and chivalry.
However, because the laws of war are based on consensus, the content and interpretation of such laws are extensive, contested, and ever-changing. The following are particular examples of some of the substance of the laws of war, as those laws are interpreted today.


Declaration of war

Some treaties, notably the United Nations Charter (1945) Article 2, and other articles in the Charter, seek to curtail the right of member states to declare war; as does the older Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928 for those nations who ratified it.


Lawful conduct of belligerent actors

Modern laws of war regarding conduct during war (jus in bello), such as the 1949 Geneva Conventions, provide that it is unlawful for belligerents to engage in combat without meeting certain requirements, among them the wearing of a distinctive uniform or other distinctive signs visible at a distance, and the carrying of weapons openly. Impersonating soldiers of the other side by wearing the enemy's uniform is allowed, though fighting in that uniform is unlawful perfidy, as is the taking of hostages.


Red Cross, Red Crescent and the white flag

Modern laws of war, such as the 1949 Geneva Conventions, also include prohibitions on attacking doctors, ambulances or hospital ships displaying a Red Cross, a Red Crescent or other emblem related to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. It is also prohibited to fire at a person or vehicle bearing a white flag, since that indicates an intent to surrender or a desire to communicate.
In either case, persons protected by the Red Cross/Crescent or white flag are expected to maintain neutrality, and may not engage in warlike acts; in fact, engaging in war activities under a protected symbol is itself a violation of the laws of war known as perfidy. Failure to follow these requirements can result in the loss of protected status and make the individual violating the requirements a lawful military target.




Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Are you saying killing in the name of a state is somehow superior to terrorism?


No; that is not necessarily true, and I am not saying that. We are not talking about "killing in the name of the state" in general, we are specifically talking about the current situation between certain areas in the middle east and the US armed forces; the US' presence there is to help rid the world of these dangerous terrorists, and to help stabilize governments that have been ruled by people with similar mindsets to the said terrorists.

Yeah, terrorism is clearly superior. :rolleyes:


Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
It's the same outcome.


Yup, innocent deaths = deaths of those guilty of cold-blooded murder. :thumbup:


Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Tell that to the Islamic World who doesn't see it from your American bubble perspective. Try and put yourself in the shoes of the Afghan civilian population.


Anybody who cares about the welfare of humans in general, Afghan civilian or not, would realize that my perspective is nothing but fair, and realistic--obviously, Afghan civilians who contribute to or otherwise support terrorist causes will not see eye-to-eye with me on this. :lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414422 - 05/07/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You do realize the vast majority of deaths in our two wars are that of innocent civilians? Al qaeda, the terrorists, is a marginal organization which numbers in the mere thousands. I spent four years studying these issues at the University. It's quite clear our reasons for being at war are economic.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414430 - 05/07/11 09:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Self defense is and strategically organized post retaliation are two different things.

Way off the point.. did the typo confused you? Its ridiculous to say any violence is justifiable. In the human society ofc.. dont try and bring animals into this one :smile: Seals are trained soldiers and skilled in hand to hand combat. Were they not able to restrain one old man.. or is it easier just to shot him in the head. Ofc, its done deal now. These guys were ordered to kill him no matter what, that is obvious. So where is your democracy now?


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: ivander]
    #14414467 - 05/07/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
You do realize the vast majority of deaths in our two wars are that of innocent civilians?


I'm pretty sure this is true, although you do not specify whether or not the vast majority of these civilians were killed by US (or allied) forces, so unless you provide a source which claims that they were, I'm just gonna have to shrug my shoulders for the time being. :shrug:


Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Al qaeda, the terrorists, is a marginal organization which numbers in the mere thousands.


Al qaeda isn't the only terrorist organization, and not all terrorist attacks are issued by a large, organized terrorist organization (many kill simply in the name of their religion). Not to mention there are plenty of people who support terrorist causes (financially or otherwise) who themselves do not partake in any violence.


Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
It's quite clear our reasons for being at war are economic.


You know what else is quite clear? That this had absolutely no bearing on the president's decision to declare war on terror: :septemberlol:



Quote:

ivander said:
Self defense is and strategically organized post retaliation are two different things.


This sentence doesn't make sense--maybe you accidentally added that extra 'is'? :confused:

If so, then, who cares if they're two different things? If I'm correct, you are giving the US' reaction to 9/11 the title of "organized post retaliation"--why is this, IYO, any less acceptable than self-defense?


Quote:

ivander said:
did the typo confused you?


What typo?


Quote:

ivander said:
Its ridiculous to say any violence is justifiable.


Yeah, again, including self-defense. :rolleyes:


Quote:

ivander said:
Were they not able to restrain one old man.. or is it easier just to shot him in the head.


Old or not, he can still pull a trigger.


Quote:

ivander said:
These guys were ordered to kill him no matter what, that is obvious. So where is your democracy now?


:lol:,how is that obvious? Just because you feel it is obvious, this does not make it true.


Goddamn, sometimes all the baseless conjecturing in this forum makes my head explode! :header:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (05/07/11 10:05 AM)


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414474 - 05/07/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:picard:

Btw, that last quote isn't mine.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14414487 - 05/07/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
:picard:


You know, words may help further this discussion, but I see you prefer doing it your way. :rolleyes:

I do not see how anything I said in reply to you could be worthy of a facepalm, let alone a Picard...:frown:


I guess your four years spent at University makes you automatically right on this issue, and makes me  unworthy of your highly-educated time. Man, for a moderator of a spirituality forum, you sure are humble! :wink:



Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Btw, that last quote isn't mine.


Fixed. :voila:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (05/07/11 10:27 AM)


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414513 - 05/07/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm leaving for the weekend shortly and I don't have the time to rebuttal, so a Picard will have to do. :satansmoking:


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: c0sm0nautt] * 1
    #14414535 - 05/07/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well have a good time! Hopefully you'll feel less Picardish upon returning, and make an effort to offer a sensible, respectful rebuttal. :smile:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414882 - 05/07/11 11:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."

While the United States does not have a traditional empire in the later form, in the late 20th and early 21st centuries it nevertheless exerted tremendous power over other countries, sometimes through the use of military force, but more often from behind the scenes, just as in the earlier phases of many if not most of the earlier empires.[22][23] In 2005, the United States had 737 military bases in foreign countries, according to official sources.[24]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

:boot:


Edited by Vsnares.Zappa (05/07/11 11:56 AM)


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14414967 - 05/07/11 12:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Many countries fully welcome our military presence--we're not imperialists to the middle east, in fact, we're trying to help them, give them the ability to maintain their own fairness, safety, and freedom (something they obviously failed to do without our intervention). We have no intention of retaining control of their nations indefinitely.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (05/07/11 12:24 PM)


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14414995 - 05/07/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:rolleyes:


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14415012 - 05/07/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Many countries fully welcome our military presence--we're not imperialists to the middle east, in fact, we're trying to help them, give them the ability to maintain their own fairness, safety, and freedom (something they obviously failed to do without our intervention). We have no intention of retaining control of their nations indefinitely.





:ahahaha:


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: auxiliary]
    #14415013 - 05/07/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Gotta love all those big words people always use in this forum. :eek:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14415034 - 05/07/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

One of the first words: "One of them has a weapon."

Yeah dude, sounds like imperialism. :rolleyes:


Again, gotta love all those big words people always use in this forum, I'm so glad this place is not full of people who are too immature to actually discuss issues, and who just provide YouTube clips as "evidence" of some obscure unspoken "point". :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (05/07/11 12:53 PM)


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14415069 - 05/07/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

if you watch carefully, this video is depicting, amrican soldiers murdering Al-Jazeera journalists. (''he have a weapon'', yeah just because he seems to have a weapon, we'll just kill him right?:rolleyes: .)
You should stop watching bullshit propaganda on the Fox channel bro.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14415073 - 05/07/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why would any country take our military presence within their own borders as acceptable?


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: auxiliary]
    #14415082 - 05/07/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

auxiliary said:
Why would any country take our military presence within their own borders as acceptable?




For protection.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14415100 - 05/07/11 12:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
if you watch carefully, this video is depicting, amrican soldiers murdering Al-Jazeera journalists. (''he have a weapon'', yeah just because he seems to have a weapon, we'll just kill him right?:rolleyes: .)
You should stop watching bullshit propaganda on the Fox channel bro.


You should link me to a valid text source which supports your theory that this video depicts members of the US Armed Forces acting out of line, or just not even bring it up. :shrug:

Why should I accept your bullshit propaganda any more than I should accept Fox's?


Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

auxiliary said:
Why would any country take our military presence within their own borders as acceptable?




For protection.


I honestly can't believe somebody actually asked that question. :lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14415171 - 05/07/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
if you watch carefully, this video is depicting, amrican soldiers murdering Al-Jazeera journalists. (''he have a weapon'', yeah just because he seems to have a weapon, we'll just kill him right?:rolleyes: .)
You should stop watching bullshit propaganda on the Fox channel bro.


You should link me to a valid text source which supports your theory that this video depicts members of the US Armed Forces acting out of line, or just not even bring it up. :shrug:

Why should I accept your bullshit propaganda any more than I should accept Fox's?


Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

auxiliary said:
Why would any country take our military presence within their own borders as acceptable?




For protection.


I honestly can't believe somebody actually asked that question. :lol:




I don't mean to be rude but,
If Afgans were in america shooting people and blowing things up you would have a completely other point of view.


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14415210 - 05/07/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Guys, just a friendly reminder: this is not a forum for political debate. Either bring it back on topic or take it to a proper forum.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Kickle]
    #14415256 - 05/07/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:doublefacepalm:

some just choose not to listen :shrug:


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Offlineivander
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14415408 - 05/07/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
    ivander said:
    Self defense is and strategically organized post retaliation are two different things.

This sentence doesn't make sense--maybe you accidentally added that extra 'is'? :confused:

If so, then, who cares if they're two different things? If I'm correct, you are giving the US' reaction to 9/11 the title of "organized post retaliation"--why is this, IYO, any less acceptable than self-defense?


    Quote:
    ivander said:
    did the typo confused you?

What typo?


    Quote:
    ivander said:
    Its ridiculous to say any violence is justifiable.

Yeah, again, including self-defense. :rolleyes:


    Quote:
    ivander said:
    Were they not able to restrain one old man.. or is it easier just to shot him in the head.

Old or not, he can still pull a trigger.


    Quote:
    ivander said:
    These guys were ordered to kill him no matter what, that is obvious. So where is your democracy now?

:lol:,how is that obvious? Just because you feel it is obvious, this does not make it true.


Goddamn, sometimes all the baseless conjecturing in this forum makes my head explode! :header:




It seems I did accidentally added that 'is'. Same would also be for typo... of <> off in the previous post.

If there is no attacker there would no be reason for self defense. So yes, cuz these two are inseparable, that would make them unjustifiable. But still, you can always turn the other cheek, even if punched.

What trigger? They say he was unarmed?

Now, how is that obvious? Cuz he is dead! Now you say i could feel some things are such, but that would not necessarily make them true. This statement is valid for you also.

And what of the point? I dont know what point you try to find. But to me this whole thread is to find out is Dali Lamas opinion valid or not.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: ivander]
    #14415465 - 05/07/11 02:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
It seems I did accidentally added that 'is'. Same would also be for typo... of <> off in the previous post.


Oh sorry, I forgot it was you who made that typo..my bad. :lol:


Quote:

ivander said:
If there is no attacker there would no be reason for self defense. So yes, cuz these two are inseparable, that would make them unjustifiable. But still, you can always turn the other cheek, even if punched.


Why does the fact that the two are inseparable mean that they are both unjustifiable IYO?


Quote:

ivander said:
What trigger? They say he was unarmed?


He made sudden advances toward the SEALs and it unnerved them.


Quote:

ivander said:
Now, how is that obvious? Cuz he is dead! Now you say i could feel some things are such, but that would not necessarily make them true. This statement is valid for you also.


I provided lots of evidence for my contentions..can't say the same for you. :shrug:


Quote:

ivander said:
And what of the point? I dont know what point you try to find. But to me this whole thread is to find out is Dali Lamas opinion valid or not.


Is English your first language?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlineivander
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Poid]
    #14415539 - 05/07/11 02:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

-IMO, they are unjustifiable, cuz every problem could be solved through dialog. This planet is big enough for everybody. Ofc, if this is to work, we would need global restart. Forgive and move on. Blood will only ask for more blood.

-He made a sudden move? With a fork? A bazooka? Unarmed? Again, these guys are trained combat professionals...

- What evidence? Some links from the net? You seem to prefer some sources on the internet which you would agree with, while you dismiss others you do not. That is a conclusion I came to while reading some of the threads...

-No.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Dali Lama "approves" of Bin Laden hit. You suprised? [Re: Cups]
    #14415559 - 05/07/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Off topic


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