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OfflineKingEmblem
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Extremely smart people, real geniuses
    #14403249 - 05/05/11 12:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Name some of the ones you've enjoyed reading about. I would argue that they're pretty rare. Einstein is an obvious one, but he probably isn't even the most intelligent, whatever that means. Nikola Tesla is very interesting. William James Sidis is even more perhaps, although not nearly as prolific/productive as Tesla. :crazy2: Any others? Perhaps the Buddha? :blush:


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triptych


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Offlineeris
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem] * 1
    #14403254 - 05/05/11 12:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, me. My works are just yet to be published. I will win a nobel prize eventually, I'm sure of it.


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Immortal / Temporarily Retired
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OfflineZenXi6
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: eris]
    #14403255 - 05/05/11 12:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I concur. 

Eris is a genius.


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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!


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OfflineGreenvalley
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: ZenXi6] * 4
    #14403276 - 05/05/11 01:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Terence Mckenna


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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: eris]
    #14403282 - 05/05/11 01:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

eris said:
Yes, me. My works are just yet to be published. I will win a nobel prize eventually, I'm sure of it.





Some examples??


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: eris]
    #14403286 - 05/05/11 01:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

eris said:
Yes, me. My works are just yet to be published. I will win a nobel prize eventually, I'm sure of it.




This was the 2nd post in thread, too:

:header::header::header:


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Edited by Remix (05/05/11 01:05 AM)


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14403288 - 05/05/11 01:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Stephen Hawking is a god.



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OfflineZenXi6
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Greenvalley]
    #14403289 - 05/05/11 01:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)



Cats man.  They've got the world and humanity worked the fuck out.

The above is only a menial example of their truly maniacal ways...


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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!


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InvisibleMicawber
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14403309 - 05/05/11 01:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

chuck palinichuck-proly spelled wrong
i think hes a literary geniuses


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(mik-kaw'-bur) n. one who is poor but lives in optimistic expectation of better fortune:nyan:


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InvisibleMicawber
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Remix]
    #14403317 - 05/05/11 01:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
Quote:

eris said:
Yes, me. My works are just yet to be published. I will win a nobel prize eventually, I'm sure of it.




This was the 2nd post in thread, too:

:header::header::header:



aint you one observant fucker:wink:


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(mik-kaw'-bur) n. one who is poor but lives in optimistic expectation of better fortune:nyan:


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InvisibleSpiritualSnorkel
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Remix]
    #14403331 - 05/05/11 01:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
Quote:

eris said:
Yes, me. My works are just yet to be published. I will win a nobel prize eventually, I'm sure of it.




This was the 2nd post in thread, too:

:header::header::header:






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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: SpiritualSnorkel] * 3
    #14403355 - 05/05/11 01:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Every poster in the conspiracy theory forum


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: PreparationH]
    #14403368 - 05/05/11 01:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:zaphod:


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OfflineKingEmblem
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Greenvalley]
    #14403409 - 05/05/11 01:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Greenvalley said:
Terence Mckenna



I suppose I agree. Out of all the ones listed so far in this thread he would probably easily be the most personable, charming one. Oratory/literary genius. :psychsplit:


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triptych


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem]
    #14403415 - 05/05/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Saul Kripke


Quote:

Kripke has made influential and original contributions to logic, especially modal logic, since he was a teenager. Unusually for a professional philosopher, his only degree is an undergraduate degree from Harvard, in mathematics. His work has profoundly influenced analytic philosophy, with his principal contribution being a metaphysical description of modality, involving possible worlds as described in a system now called Kripke semantics.



Quote:

Kripke was labelled a prodigy, having taught himself Ancient Hebrew by the age of six, read the complete works of Shakespeare by nine, and mastered the works of Descartes and complex mathematical problems before graduating elementary school. He wrote his first completeness theorem in modal logic at the age of 17, and had it published a year later. After graduating from high school in 1958, Kripke attended Harvard University and graduated summa cum laude obtaining a bachelor's degree in mathematics. During his sophomore year at Harvard, Kripke taught a graduate-level logic course at nearby MIT. Upon graduation (1962) he received a Fulbright Fellowship, and in 1963 was appointed to the Society of Fellows.




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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14403489 - 05/05/11 02:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Aldous Huxley for sure.


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: pouihi] * 3
    #14403523 - 05/05/11 03:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I am a genius by numerical score.
I am an idiot by choice.


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RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #14403540 - 05/05/11 03:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sir Issac newton. There was the iconic moment with the apple but even more genius was what he did when someone asked him to explain it mathematically. He holed up in his house for a few months and came out with a new type of math called calculus :teacher:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] * 1
    #14403546 - 05/05/11 03:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Add Leibniz to the list.  You know that he and Newton simultaneously invented calculus independently of one another?


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14403560 - 05/05/11 03:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I had no idea, I find it odd that people unknown to eachother can come up with the exact same idea or discovery simultaneously. Its happened with more then a few historical inventions and discoveries :strokebeard2:


The hivemind is approaching :borg:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14403569 - 05/05/11 03:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:levitate:


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InvisibleCarl Sagan
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] * 2
    #14403573 - 05/05/11 03:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Sir Issac newton. There was the iconic moment with the apple but even more genius was what he did when someone asked him to explain it mathematically. He holed up in his house for a few months and came out with a new type of math called calculus :teacher:




Yes there are thousands of amazing minds that have led humanity to this juncture.  Newton being one of the most impacting. We are at an amazing place right NOW in human history. Science in so many great fields, is expanding at an exponential rate!  I care about todays minds, the minds that can make a difference!  Richard Dawkins,  Neil Tyson Degrasse,  Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchins, and anyone working in the fields of quantum physics, neuro science, and of course mycology!!!:zappa:


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“Sacred cows make the best hamburger”

Mark Twain



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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Carl Sagan]
    #14403592 - 05/05/11 03:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Dawkins? :smbfacepalm:

Science is great and all, but I really dont think were at a point in history where the quest for the higs boson, the life cycle of stars, or how to best bash on religion is all that relevant to our situation.


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InvisibleCarl Sagan
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14403621 - 05/05/11 03:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Dawkins? :smbfacepalm:

Science is great and all, but I really dont think were at a point in history where the quest for the higs boson, the life cycle of stars, or how to best bash on religion is all that relevant to our situation.





Oh really?  Where do think the "Great Minds" are, and what type of a contribution will they be bringing to the table?


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“Sacred cows make the best hamburger”

Mark Twain



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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Carl Sagan]
    #14403630 - 05/05/11 03:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think the great minds are the ones who dedicate there lives to bringing nature back to its former glory and building a wholly sustainable future for the countless generations to come. There the ones who's actions will have a impact that will resonate throughout our history and bring us true gains both in wisdom and life. Not some scientist figuring out the exact mathematical equations to the physics of this universe or the life cycles of cosmic process's.


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InvisibleCarl Sagan
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14403634 - 05/05/11 04:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Dawkins? :smbfacepalm:

Science is great and all, but I really dont think were at a point in history where the quest for the higs boson, the life cycle of stars, or how to best bash on religion is all that relevant to our situation.




Im sorry I cannot let a statement like that go unaddressed.

1 "but I really dont think were at a point in history where the quest for the higs boson"

    Understanding our world on a sub atomic level, and recreating events like the big bang could possibly change the way we view, and study our physical world. Not to mention bringing us closer to answering the questions that have burdened humanity since the beginning of recorded history.

2." how to best bash on religion is all that relevant to our situation"

    I cant even believe i am about to go into this one, so ill keep it brief: WAR FOR TEN YEARS by religious fundamentalists on both sides.


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“Sacred cows make the best hamburger”

Mark Twain



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InvisibleCarl Sagan
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14403644 - 05/05/11 04:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I think the great minds are the ones who dedicate there lives to bringing nature back to its former glory and building a wholly sustainable future for the countless generations to come. There the ones who's actions will have a impact that will resonate throughout our history and bring us true gains both in wisdom and life. Not some scientist figuring out the exact mathematical equations to the physics of this universe or the life cycles of cosmic process's.




All that is well and good, but it means nothing if we cannot push all the supernatural bull shit aside and start abiding by the laws of nature.  At this rate entering into hostile discourse with countries like Pakistan (who have long range nuclear weapons) could end life as we know it. Leaving no chance to expand the conciseness of humanity.


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“Sacred cows make the best hamburger”

Mark Twain



Independant Research Foundation


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem]
    #14403652 - 05/05/11 04:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Frederick Sanger. The dude got 2 nobel prizes so he owns most of the people mentioned so far :haha:


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OfflineRainman420
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14403666 - 05/05/11 04:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Also the development of superconductivity is imo crucial to transportation of the future.


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The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14403684 - 05/05/11 04:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Wow I was just amazed to see that Al Gore was a nobel laureate for peace, that's just ridiculous.

But seeing that nobel prizes don't contemplate geniuses from many centuries ago how would that be useful in defining someone's geniality?


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: pouihi]
    #14403692 - 05/05/11 04:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Literature and peace NP are kinda :rolleyes:

But F. Sanger was a fucking genious. He developed methods of sequencing proteins and DNA etc. which were like a corner stone in biochemistry/genetics n biology for the last half century or so.


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: pouihi] * 2
    #14403694 - 05/05/11 04:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ronald Hadley Stark I think was a genius. This man synthesized over 20 kilos of LSD and hardly anyone knows his name as where Owsley synthed about half a kilo in his career. This guy through sheer confidence got into the inner circles of Terrorist organizations in the middle east, the brotherhood of eternal love, the CIA , Italian Revolutionary circles and Asian Mafias without any of them knowing about eachother.


Quote:

Ronald Hadley Stark: The Man Behind the LSD Curtain

Posted Dec 02, 2010 29 comments
Hippie Mafia Wanted Poster

"...revolutions are not won by enlisting the masses. Revolution is a science for the few who are competent to practice it. It depends on correct organisation and above all, on communications." -- Robert Heinlen

Ronald Hadley Stark LSD11/30/11 -- The curse of doing research out here in Weirdoland is that the really fascinating people are nearly impossible to do research on. For instance, when you're covertly running the world's largest LSD manufacturing and smuggling operation for the CIA, you're not going to be doing interviews in Newsweek or publishing an autobiography. That's precisely the problem with Ronald Hadley Stark, who is one of the most insane characters in the history of LSD -- and that's really saying something, don't you think?

This article has been updated considerably since I first published it. Stark's life story is beyond belief, so I think it's important to be meticulous. There are, no doubt, still hundreds of errors here.

For anyone unfamiliar with the tangle of political, scientific, cultural and covert forces behind spread of LSD, this article could get confusing. Ronald Stark is a central figure in David Black's book ACID: A Secret History of LSD, but the best overall introduction to this material would be Acid Dreams, by Lee & Shlain. It's short and very readable, laying out the overall history in clear terms. For more serious seekers, I highly recommend HP Albarelli's masterpiece, A Terrible Mistake, which is meticulously documented and considerably broader than mere LSD history.
image
The Super-Context

Stark had been working with US intelligence agencies for at least 9 years by the time of his most infamous moment, a legendary meeting with the "hippie mafia" drug syndicate called The Brotherhood of Eternal Love. (no joke.) They were looking for a new supplier and Stark kicked off the meeting by showing them a kilogram of liquid LSD -- for US readers, that's 2.2 pounds of acid. Needless to say, his resume was persuasive. He claimed to have a dedicated lab in France, but it's his political philosophy that really makes Stark such an interesting character:

"He had a mission, he explained, to use LSD in order to facilitate the overthrow of the political systems of both the capitalist West and communist East by inducing altered states of consciousness in millions of people. Stark did not hide the fact that he was well connected in the world of covert politics."

The Brotherhood was sufficiently impressed to bring Ronald Stark into the fold, and what followed was the Golden Era of cheap, high-quality LSD. From 1969 through 1973, Stark and the Brotherhood dosed a generation and got away with it, too.
image

According to a figure quoted by everyone and verified by nobody, Stark made 20 kilograms of LSD in his career. Hippie lore generally gives Owsley Stanley the crown of the Acid King, but by Stanley's own estimates, his total production was a half kilogram. That might not sound like much -- but it adds up to over 5 million hits of acid. You can see why the Army and Navy were so interested in this compound: it is unusually powerful as drug molecules go.

Although the LSD story is closely associated with the Sandoz pharmaceutical corporation in Switzerland, most of the CIA's supply was actually domestic. Since at least 1954, the Eli Lilly Company was working under secret contract to keep the various MKNAOMI and ARTICHOKE research projects stocked up with magic mindfuck juice. The figures on their total LSD output are classified.

David Black: "Before clinching the deal with the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, Stark had been making some contacts in England among the radical psychiatry movement of R.D. Laing and the Tavistock Institute."

Obviously this was a big money business, and organized crime involvement was inevitable. Since small batches of LSD have a literally exponential commercial profit margin, technical expertise was highly rewarded. Consider the case of Clyde Apperson, a specialist in quickly setting up a fully functional manufacturing lab just about anywhere. More importantly, he could take them down even faster. For set-up, Apperson would charge $100,000 in cash -- take downs were only $50,000. He was finally busted working in the infamous abandoned missile silo with William Leonard Pickard in 2000.
image

Everyone's always getting busted, though. The history of LSD is full of incredibly intelligent men making highly stupid decisions. Yet through it all, from Operation Julie to the Sand-Scully case, Ronald Stark just kept on trucking. He was a calculating cameo artist: always on the scene, never holding the bag.

Until he suddenly was: "Whatever game Stark was playing took an abrupt turn in February 1975 when Italian police received an anonymous phone call about a man selling drugs in a hotel in Bologna. A few days later at the Grand Hotel Baglioni they arrested a suspect in possession of 4,600 kilos of marijuana, morphine, and cocaine. The suspect carried a British passport bearing the name Mr. Terrence W. Abbott. Italian investigators soon discovered that "Mr. Abbott" was actually Ronald Stark."-- Source: Acid Dreams, pg. 213
Ronald Hadley Stark AKA Terrence W. Abbott

Terrence W. Abbott was holding a genuine British passport, number 348489A, which was issued in 1973. The story of how he got it will never be told -- British intelligence refused to release his files. The FBI refused to share their files on him with the DEA's investigation, and the US State Department has actively interfered with many foreign attempts to extradite or prosecute Stark. The man led a charmed life.

"...the picture of Stark's activities began to broaden with the discovery of a vial of liquid and a cache of papers kept in a Rome bank deposit box. The vial was sent for forensic examination. The scientists reported back that they could not precisely identify the drug it contained. At best, they put it close to LSD. Perhaps it was the synthetic THC Stark had dreamt of creating; the papers included formulae for the synthesis. There were also plans for the bulk purchase of hemp seeds and calculations for shipments, investments and plant installation. Some of the papers went back to the Brotherhood days but they gave no details of his LSD operations after the Belgian episode. They did show that his range of interests in the drug world had expanded to include narcotics. There were details of the synthesis of cocaine." Source: The Brotherhood of Eternal Love
image

Stark's time in Italy is the strangest and bloodiest chapter of his odd history. Although most accounts frame his 1975 arrest as a "bust," one commentator who does not is worth mentioning here: Phillip Willan. His view of Stark is shaped not by LSD folklore, but through earnest journalism and research into the history of political terrorism in Italy. The Ronald Stark that Willan presents is not a drug lord getting taken down, so much as an intelligence asset deliberately changing venues.

Willan: "Stark's arrest in Italy was prompted by a mysterious phone call to the police and he seems quite happy to go to prison, where his time was gainfully employed in winning the confidence of captured Red Brigades leaders, given that he turned down the opportunity of bail in August 1978."

Stark was no mere snitch, though. He was actively setting up infrastructure, teaching the principles of operational security and preaching the virtues of the "cell" structure. "He also provided them with a cryptographic system for coded radio communications," Willan says, although it should be assumed that Stark was also passing that system on to his secret employers. Prison records show that he met with Italian police and intelligence agents many times while he was networking there. It was in Italy that a large part of Ronald Stark's operation collapsed into the visible world. The facts that emerged are an education in covert warfare and intelligence operations.
Some Heavy Dudes
Howard Marks | Mr Nice

"...his preferred to keep his range of contacts ignorant of each other's activities. Oftentimes he concealed the fact he was an American. His European associates were not privvy to his affairs in Africa, and those in Asia knew little about his work in the states. The brothers, for example, had no idea he was running a separate cocaine ring in the Bay Area." -- Acid Dreams, pg 250

Researching Roland Stark, I was reminded of people like Porter Goss, Henry Karl "Andijra" Puharich, or Barry Seal: it is unreal how much this guy got around. He stayed in close contact with the founders of "The Process Church of the Final Judgement," which is another hub in the Dark Network of occult history.

They began as a splinter group who broke ranks from Scientology, which meant they were waging spiritual war with L. Ron Hubbard from 1965 through 1974, which was a pretty bad year for "The Teacher," Robert DeGrimston. He was booted from his own cult and his wife divorced him on her journey to starting a successful chain of "Best Friends" animal shelters. (No joke.)
image

All of which sounds way more lurid than it was. Stark was ultimately a drug dealer so beyond being Very Interesting, his link with the Process Church doesn't imply any shared philosophy...and doesn't exclude it, either. The oddball sociologist William Sims Bainbridge studied the group for months, and he didn't exactly make it sound like a blood magick sacrifice: "there was no violence and no indiscriminate sex, but I found a remarkably aesthetic and intelligent alternative to conventional religion." Then again, the Solar Temple was full of wealthy and sophisticated people who held refined parties and had very high-level conversations right up until the mass murder, mass suicide thing.

(For considerably more detail on the Process, refer to the Bainbridge essay Social Construction from Within: Satan's Process.)
Timothy Leary TANSTAAFL

Timothy Leary was a perfect avatar for the Age of Horus: playful, brilliantly creative and blissfully unaware of the bad consequences he was unleashing. Although there is little evidence to tie Leary himself to the drug smuggling and merchandising activities of the Brotherhood, there is no question he quickly became the spiritual center of the group. For what it's worth, Leary himself downplayed their significance:

LEARY: "The whole concept of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love is like a bogeyman invented by the narcs. The brotherhood was about eight surfer kids from Southern California, Laguna Beach, who took the LSD, and they practiced the religion of the worship of nature, and they'd go into the mountains. But they were not bigshots at all. None of them ever drove anything better than a VW bus. They were just kind of in it for the spiritual thrill."

Maybe so -- but probably not. In September 1970, Leary escaped from prison in a complicated deal exposing just how serious the Brotherhood network had become. Money from Ronald Stark was paid to the Weather Underground, which is the precise point where the "hippie mafia" became connected to actual hippie terrorists. Leary himself wound up in Algeria under the (very) armed watch of Eldridge Cleaver, himself in exile. A year later, Leary and his wife were in Switzerland, living under the protection of the arms dealer Michel Hauchard. For a story about spiritual thrills, there's definitely a lot of guns involved here.
Weather Underground Wanted Poster

At one point, though, maybe the Brotherhood really was just a group of hippies with a couple trunks full of weed. The Weather Underground were harmless student activists for awhile, too. Once Stark was brought into the Brotherhood, he quickly took change of the entire operation, establishing secure shipments and managing every aspect of their finances. "Stark warned them that buying real estate openly, as they had done, was much too risky -- but his lawyers could remedy the situation by hiding ownership in a maze of shell companies."

This is a repeated pattern in Stark's operations: he is always ready to create an organization where none exists. After Owsley got busted and the Brotherhood went international, many of the original bay area chemists got wise to what Stark was really doing. "We were definitely very gullible in believing the stuff he told us," as poor Tim Scully would later observe.

The Brotherhood got plugged into Stark's global underground very quickly: massive marijuana imports from the Middle East, shadow bank accounts in the Cayman Islands, and he was somehow micro-managing everything. Once he had flooded the West Coast with Afghan weed, Stark turned his attention to New York City, which was completely unprepared for the sheer quantity the Brotherhood supplied. From distribution to organizing street-level dealers, Stark was there, establishing Ordo Ab Chao is his own specific way.
Howard Marks Mr Nice

Skilluminati readers may already be familiar with Mr. Nice, the Welsh arms trader and Hashish entrepreneur who paved the pipeline that brought Afghanistan's finest exports into the hands of hippies and other connoisseurs all around the world. His real name is Howard Marks and his pioneering work in cultural exchange was the foundation for everything from the Cannabis Cup to Afghanistan's ongoing civil war, although of course neither was actually Howard's fault. Unlike Stark, he's made a modest living telling colorful and contrite stories of his drug dealing days. Part of the Mr. Nice gig, of course, is that he swears he's never used violence or trafficked in "hard drugs" -- which was probably an even bigger factor in his early retirement than getting busted by the DEA. Afghanistan, of course, got very heavy very quick and Mr. Nice was steamrolled out of the picture in short order.

Howard Marks was very much a hippie. Ronald Stark was something else altogether.
Giorgio Floridia
Giorgio Floridia | Ronald Hadley Stark

Most of what's known about Ronald Stark today is through an Italian magistrate named Giorgio Floridia, who released Stark from Italian prison in 1979. After Stark had gotten himself caught in 1975, he busied himself trying to convince anyone and everyone that he was operating with the blessings of the United States government. Four years later, he finally managed to persuade Floridia, who cited "an impressive series of scrupulously enumerated proofs" that Stark had given him.

    At his appeals trial Stark changed identities once again, this time passing himself off as "Khouri Ali," a radical Palestinian. In fluent Arabic he spelled out the details of his autobiography, explaining that he was part of an international terrorist organization headquartered in Lebanon, called "Group 14." Stark's appeal failed, and he was sent back to jail.

    But Italian police took a renewed interest in his case after they captured Enrique Paghera, another terrorist leader who knew Stark. At the time of his arrest Paghera was holding a hand-drawn map of a PLO camp in Lebanon. The map, Paghera confessed, had come from Stark, who also provided a coded letter of introduction. The objective, according to Paghera, was to forge a link with a terrorist organization that was planning to attack embassies.

Floridia also claims Stark worked for the Defense Department from 1960 on, and recieved paychecks from Fort Lee, in New Jersey. It is worth considering that Stark might have exaggerated his role and connections, and even fabricated evidence, in presenting his case to the magistrate who was in a position to free him. Either way, it worked. Stark was released on parole....and disappeared days later.

In terms of Floridia's motivation, it's worth considering the fate of the guy who came before him:

    In June 1978 a Bologna magistrate, Graziano Gori, was assigned to investigate Stark and his astounding web of associates. A few weeks later, Gori was killed in a car wreck.

That, of course, might be the most "impressive proof" of all.
Somehow Not the End
Hegelian Dialectic LSD Social Engineering

Ronald Stark turned up in Holland in 1982. There's not a lot of published details, but it clearly involves 16 kilos of hasish and a Lebanese cover identity. He was busted en route to New York City. He got deported the next year and apparently died in custody -- because when Italy requested that he be extradited on terrorism charges, the US replied with a copy of Stark's death certificate.

(You guessed it -- "heart attack.")

His paper trail comes to an end here, although the reader can be forgiven for assuming his crusade continued covertly. There was certainly no retirement for a man like Stark. His mission was too important, too huge for a mere career.
Zbigniew Brzrzinski and Menachem Begin plays chess at Camp David

...but then again, what was his mission, after all? Is it a mistake to place any stock in what he told the Brotherhood of Eternal Love? Perhaps not. Although Ronald Hadley Stark was many things to many people, the sole constant that emerges is Revolution. From the Weather Underground to the Red Brigades, from the PLO to the IRS, Stark was consistently moving in circles where the overthrow of government and the liberation of the people were central themes...circles that today would be considered "Terrorist." Certainly, Stark manipulated and lied to his contacts every step of the way, and it's safe to assume the speeches he gave to the Palestinians and Italians were much different from the picture he was painting in 1969 for the Brotherhood.

It's worth revisiting, though: "...in order to facilitate the overthrow of the political systems of both the capitalist West and communist East by inducing altered states of consciousness in millions of people." Now, Hadley's chosen network makes it pretty clear that he viewed automatic rifles and firebombs as equally valid tools for "inducing altered states of consciousness," and it's unlikely that a realist like Stark honestly believed that LSD was going amount to much more than a profitable business. Setting that aside, overthrowing both capitalism and communism sounds like an authentic statement of Stark's overall goals, or at least one that fits his sketchy and fast-moving modus operandi.

Ronald Hadley Stark LSDStark was an infiltrator, creating back channels for communication between intelligence and police agencies and the underground movements that were trying to fight them. The fact he was so successful and so prolific is what makes him a remarkable character. Throughout his documented life, Stark is relentlessly working with, for and against dozens of competing players. He travels constantly, juggles multiple identities and stays actively involved in multiple conflicts simultaneously.

Looking over his strange, tangled career, it's hard to avoid thinking that LSD was really not the point. The single biggest producer of raw LSD the world has ever known was not a True Believer, he was just passing through on his way to bigger and better things. His work for US intelligence agencies had less to do with blowing minds than establishing connections. Vast quantities of acid was perhaps more of a bona fide, a calling card to establish himself as a legitimate criminal figure.

Which brings us, finally, full circle.
The Last Vial
A Harsh Mistress

In 1966, Putnam & Sons published a new novel from Robert Heinlein named The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. The plot concerns a worker's revolution on a Lunar colony, organized by a small group of people with considerable assistance from a self-aware supercomputer that controls the colony's infrastructure. Written in a distinctively abbreviated "Moonspeak," the book goes into remarkable detail about secure, secret communication networks. Stark was seldom without a copy and spoke highly of it around the world. Perhaps the closest we can ultimately get to unraveling his motives and beliefs is within the pages of a sci-fi story, rather than the life he left behind.

It's impossible to write about the character of Ronald Stark without discussing the character of Professor Bernardo de la Paz. As the brains behind the Lunar revolution, the Professor has several extensive monologues about the design principles behind covert operations. "Revolution," the Prof says, "is an art I pursue, rather than a goal I expect to achieve."

The end of the novel is pure Chinatown. The revolution gets subverted like revolutions always do, and Heinlein was really writing a love song about The Frontier itself. Revolution is the flame that extinguishes itself, for simple and practical reasons: "Every new member made it that much more likely that you would be betrayed," as the Prof puts it.

"Organization must be no larger than necessary -- never recruit anyone merely because he wants to join. As to basic structure, a revolution starts as a conspiracy; therefore structure is small, secret and organized as to minimize damage by betrayal -- since there are always betrayals. One solution is the cell system and so far nothing better has been invented."
Covert Cell Structure

The Professor goes on to propose a mandala of three-member cells, all reporting through a single Leader node back towards the center. This compartmentalized approach allows the founders to both monopolize information flow and insulate themselves against exposure. The concept is simple and effective, and it has been proven here in the real world for decades, from terrorist networks to intelligence agencies to evangelical Christians. It is staggering to think of how much Ronald Stark was connected to, assuming he rigorously pursued the Professor's blueprint, as Art for Art's sake. It is sobering to realize that the long, wide trail of covert history I've outlined here was just a couple of cells that got busted, part of a larger picture that is gone completely here in 2010.

His greatest achievements were the successful conspiracies, the completed operations that will never get traced back to his careful planning and constant hard work. There are too many huge gaps and unanswered questions to leave much doubt that Ronald Hadley Stark had a very impressive batting average. He was in a line of work where invisibility is the goal, and his true legacy is hiding behind headlines we will never understand, out here in the herd.

pg 77 "Correctly organized and properly timed it is a bloodless coup. Done clumsily or prematurely and the result is civil war, mob violence, purges, terror. I hope you will forgive me if I say that, up to now, it has been done clumsily."
Further Reading

Sorry, no LSD recipes here. Handy safety test: if you need to google the instructions, you're not qualified to perform them. Don't play with fire, kids.
LSD Lab | DEA Bust

Be sure to check out the Cult of the Dead Cow's review of Acid: A New Secret History of LSD" -- full of further information on Stark.

The always-excellent Gary Lachman offers a sober and detailed take on The Process Church.

If you want to learn more about the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, that's good: you should. There's an outstanding book on the subject, predictably titled The Brotherhood of Eternal Love I recently read a new book on the subject, Orange Sunshine, which wasn't nearly as good.

Finally, for deep background on WTF Ronald Hadley Stark was doing in Italy during those mysterious final years of his life, Philip Willan's book is essential: "Puppetmasters: The Political Use of Terrorism in Italy ."
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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem] * 1
    #14403702 - 05/05/11 05:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

John von Neumann was insanely intelligent.  He was the father of the modern computer.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14403723 - 05/05/11 05:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Literature and peace NP are kinda :rolleyes:

But F. Sanger was a fucking genious. He developed methods of sequencing proteins and DNA etc. which were like a corner stone in biochemistry/genetics n biology for the last half century or so.


Yes, I don't know him, so I won't refute that, I'm just saying that comparing it by np's isn't so valid, specially if he was contemporary and had the time to achieve new discovering enabling him to receive another np.

I'm pretty sure that if you suggested him it's because you have good reasons to do so, I just think that "owning two nobel prizes" isn't such a good motive.


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Offlinepatterns
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: pouihi]
    #14403739 - 05/05/11 05:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Beethoven
:soundsgoodman:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: patterns] * 1
    #14403752 - 05/05/11 05:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My former language teacher mastered 14 diffirent languages.

Sometimes I think i'm a genius:blush: :lol: don't we all.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem] * 1
    #14403797 - 05/05/11 06:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"genius" is highly subjective.

There are many geniuses of social interaction, cooking, lovemaking, childraising, gardening, DIY and many other non-prestigeous fields that will never see recognition beyond the blessed circle of their close ones and often not even them.

Geniuses are quite common, theres millions and millions of them, and not even one percent will ever see fame outside their innermost circle.

You can't count the number of geniuses who wish the were less remarkable.

Since people mention geniuses like Einstein, Edison or Nield Bohr, I'd like to add Benny Hill to that list as an exceptionally witty man with a wicked knack for the english language, though most remember him only for his sped up slapstick skits, which really sells this man short.



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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Asante]
    #14403806 - 05/05/11 06:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yay for flawed education :thumbdown:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14403881 - 05/05/11 06:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I think the great minds are the ones who dedicate there lives to bringing nature back to its former glory and building a wholly sustainable future for the countless generations to come. There the ones who's actions will have a impact that will resonate throughout our history and bring us true gains both in wisdom and life. Not some scientist figuring out the exact mathematical equations to the physics of this universe or the life cycles of cosmic process's.



Thats my life goal.

I have nothing to contribute.

I agree with Beanhead:
Quote:

Sometimes I think i'm a genius:blush: :lol: don't we all.





Edited by TTT (05/05/11 06:49 AM)


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Micawber]
    #14403931 - 05/05/11 07:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Micawber said:
chuck palinichuck-proly spelled wrong
i think hes a literary geniuses




He's a genius at ripping off Kurt Vonnegut :mad2:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: patterns]
    #14404244 - 05/05/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

patterns said:
Beethoven
:soundsgoodman:



:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:



But even he ain't got shit on Janamil


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: twighead]
    #14404268 - 05/05/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:lolsy: I wonder how his thesis thing is going.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14404561 - 05/05/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Muppet was a true genius. I wonder how his book is coming along.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: MisterMuscaria] * 1
    #14404639 - 05/05/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i'm surprised Richard Feynman hasnt been mentioned yet.

regarding the simultaneous invention of calculus by both Newton and Leibniz, we spoke about this phenomenon in my sociology class this semester. the notion was that when certain information becomes available, it inevitably follows that the information will be used and implemented to create whatever comes next, in this case it happened to be calculus. its sort of like a right place at the right time effect.

the topic of genius is interesting. what really makes one a genius? its hard to classify. imo to be 'genius' one has to know how to think, rather than simply having an impressive mental capacity.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: nglsnv]
    #14404669 - 05/05/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If I could identify any shroomery geniuses they would be;

RR - mush cult
Workman - mush cult
Wiccan - general intellect
Seuss - general intellect
redgreenvines - spiritually
lana - beating the system
Speeker - mycologically
Ferris - savant like intelligence
Alan Rockefeller - mushroom hunting
isaacein - savant like intelligence
mushroomtrip - psychological intellect



Edited by MisterMuscaria (05/05/11 10:55 AM)


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14404686 - 05/05/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

mushroomtrip :lol:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14404692 - 05/05/11 10:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

She's condescending, but many people who are really smart are.
Plasmid was like that too.

You can be extremely intelligent and have the worst social skills very easily.

My boss is a fucking asshole but like a borderline autistic genius.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14404741 - 05/05/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."

i don't consider myself to have very good social skills because i don't like to talk about what most people around me like to talk about, i just get bored and uninterested and zone out. it seems like a big waste of time for me because nothing is ever said or accomplished. although i've noticed when i'm doing something else i can engage in smalltalk more easily, like juggling a soccer ball or something.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem]
    #14404743 - 05/05/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I think the great minds are the ones who dedicate there lives to bringing nature back to its former glory and building a wholly sustainable future for the countless generations to come. There the ones who's actions will have a impact that will resonate throughout our history and bring us true gains both in wisdom and life. Not some scientist figuring out the exact mathematical equations to the physics of this universe or the life cycles of cosmic process's.




This is one of the most laughable, naive and disgustingly smug idealistic posts I have ever read in my life. WOW. :tard:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #14404752 - 05/05/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i'm a socially retarded genius, no doubt about it


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: owls]
    #14405001 - 05/05/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'd say Jimi Hendrix is probably one of the smartest people to ever walk the Earth. If it wasn't guitar then Jimi would have found something else and became the best at it, he was an evolved being in my eyes.

And it doesn't even have to be exclusive to his musical abilities, listen to him talk in between shows... some of the smartest things I've ever heard.

Hell I'd throw Hicks in there as well, I don't think anybody's come as close to him (maybe Hunter S Thompson) at describing what exactly is wrong with this fucking country.. but Hendrix is definitely the smartest person to walk the Earth in my eyes.

I'd also say Martin Luther King Jr was also a genius, in my eyes at least.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


Edited by pfxtc (05/05/11 12:18 PM)


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14405019 - 05/05/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Add Leibniz to the list.  You know that he and Newton simultaneously invented calculus independently of one another?




Considering the totality of their work, Leibniz doesnt hold a candle to Newton.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: DieCommie]
    #14405114 - 05/05/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Add Leibniz to the list.  You know that he and Newton simultaneously invented calculus independently of one another?




Considering the totality of their work, Leibniz doesnt hold a candle to Newton.



Few people do, so it's not quite a fair comparison.  Leibniz was a polymath of the highest order, and if Newton hadn't been his contemporary, chances are more people would've heard of him.  Pretty much the only genius I can think of who can compare to Newton would be Da Vinci.


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Edited by Silversoul (05/05/11 12:56 PM)


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14405127 - 05/05/11 12:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Paul Erdős and Srīnivāsa Rāmānujan were definite mathematical geniuses.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14405147 - 05/05/11 12:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I seriously don't think anyone has mentioned Leonardo Da Vinci... in my opinion one of the smartest people to have ever existed.

He was an absolute master painter, sculptor, architect, anatomist, cartographer, writer, botanist, geologist, engineer, inventor, musician, optician.. who knows what else.

He's the archetype of a true genius.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: pfxtc]
    #14405270 - 05/05/11 01:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hitler was a genius too :lolocaust:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14405282 - 05/05/11 01:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Spinoza.

He developed what is, to my mind, the greatest philosophical system in history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza#Philosophy

Quote:

Spinoza viewed God and Nature as two names for the same reality, namely the single substance (meaning "that which stands beneath" rather than "matter") that is the basis of the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually modes or modifications, that all things are determined by Nature to exist and cause effects, and that the complex chain of cause and effect is understood only in part.




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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Carl Sagan]
    #14405725 - 05/05/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Carl Sagan said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Dawkins? :smbfacepalm:

Science is great and all, but I really dont think were at a point in history where the quest for the higs boson, the life cycle of stars, or how to best bash on religion is all that relevant to our situation.




Im sorry I cannot let a statement like that go unaddressed.

Quote:

1 "but I really dont think were at a point in history where the quest for the higs boson"

    Understanding our world on a sub atomic level, and recreating events like the big bang could possibly change the way we view, and study our physical world. Not to mention bringing us closer to answering the questions that have burdened humanity since the beginning of recorded history.




These questions have not burdened humanity, the only people I ever find to be burdened by these questions are the ones who dedicate themselves to that particular field of science.


Quote:


2." how to best bash on religion is all that relevant to our situation"

    I cant even believe i am about to go into this one, so ill keep it brief: WAR FOR TEN YEARS by religious fundamentalists on both sides.


And how does bashing on them solve anything? You cannot argue against a religious person and your gonna need a act of god on your side to get them to not believe. Richard Dawkins method of attack on religious people is repulsive.




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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14405777 - 05/05/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Richard Dawkins' books The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker are two of the most lucid and insightful books on evolution and natural selection that I've read.  Regardless of his antagonism towards religion, the guy's quite intelligent.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: deCypher]
    #14405808 - 05/05/11 03:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't really buy the genuis card. Some people excel at some things, while other people excel at others. My grandma makes an unreproducible pound cake that cannot be reverse engineered. Creativity, autodidacts, bricoleurs, POETS! What about Baudelaire or Rainer Rilke? Because they don't hold framed degrees or fuck with electrical currents I presume they will be under-appreciated and doomed to obscurity in the """humanities."""

On a more serious note, a young woman with an amazing body just walked by me and literally took my breath away. It's the first time that has ever happened. I felt a tingle in my toes afterward, which gradually crept up to my crotch. That ass was genius.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: mellowparty]
    #14405967 - 05/05/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
F. Sanger was a fucking genious. He developed methods of sequencing proteins and DNA etc. which were like a corner stone in biochemistry/genetics n biology for the last half century or so.




Another genius, Carl Woese, applied Sanger's method to study the rRNA of microbes that live in extreme conditions, like the methane vents on the ocean floors that are perhaps the most likely place for life to have started on Earth.

He discovered that the cells exhibited properties of both eukaryotes (cells with nuclei like plants, animals, fungi) and prokaryotes (no nucleus, like bacteria) he called this third domain of life Archaea.

His discovery shows that all life did not evolve from distinct and separate lines of decent, and are really just different levels of organization. He said "biology is a study in emergent levels of increasingly complex organization."

he also stressed the importance of Horizontal Gene Transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

Carl Woese showed that the evolution of cellular structures was far more cooperative than competitive. When you consider the impact of social darwinism, this is one of the most important discoveries in modern science.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: deCypher]
    #14405998 - 05/05/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Richard Dawkins' books The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker are two of the most lucid and insightful books on evolution and natural selection that I've read.  Regardless of his antagonism towards religion, the guy's quite intelligent.



I'll grant that he's intelligent.  Genius?  I don't think so.  His "selfish gene" theory helped advance the Neo-Darwinian synthesis, but it hardly compares to the work of Tesla or Mozart or Da Vinci.  And when he ventures outside of biology, such as with his anti-religious books, he's just plain ignorant.  I'm not sure I would even put Darwin himself in the genius category.  Sure, his theory was groundbreaking, but it basically just amounted to applying Malthus' economic theories to biology.  He was a smart guy, but he was no Newton or Einstein.

It's hard for me to really think of any recent scientific geniuses.  A lot of people point to Stephen Hawking, but he's really more of a science popularizer.  The way he's perceived among the public differs radically from the way he's perceived among physicists.  I think Richard Feynman would be a better candidate, though his bashing of philosophy strikes me as infantile.  I think the last major scientific geniuses were Einstein and the various pioneers of quantum physics.

However, two modern polymaths who I think I would say are geniuses are Douglas Hofstadter and Jared Diamond.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14406023 - 05/05/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think there are plenty of genius people in science that just aren't given much due credit... obviously there are since the rate of technological advancement has skyrocketed.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14406042 - 05/05/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I think the great minds are the ones who dedicate there lives to bringing nature back to its former glory and building a wholly sustainable future for the countless generations to come. There the ones who's actions will have a impact that will resonate throughout our history and bring us true gains both in wisdom and life. Not some scientist figuring out the exact mathematical equations to the physics of this universe or the life cycles of cosmic process's.




I agree, except that scientists who figure out the physics of the universe are, in fact, leading the ecological revolution. quantum physics shows that the universe can not be understood through reductionism, but must be viewed holistically. subatomic phenomena can only be understood through their interactions. The consciousness of the observer cant be taken out of the equation.

modern physics implies an ecological worldview where man is not separate from nature. All the problems of industrialization are founded in newton's mechanistic worldview, the true geniuses of our time transcend this paradigm.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #14406115 - 05/05/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

and from the environmental movement I add John Muir to the list. he was the first to propose, correctly, that Yosemite was formed by glaciers, and was instrumental in the creation of many of our natural parks. His religious views are very similar to transcendentalists, Emerson traveled across the country to meet him.

"We all flow from one fountain Soul. All are expressions of one Love. God does not appear, and flow out, only from narrow chinks and round bored wells here and there in favored races and places, but He flows in grand undivided currents, shoreless and boundless over creeds and forms and all kind of civilizations and people and beasts, saturating all and fountainising all" (John Muir: His Life and Letters 167)


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem]
    #14406187 - 05/05/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Among philosophers, I'd say some of the biggest geniuses would be Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Leibniz, Hume, John Stuart Mill, John Dewey, and Bertrand Russell.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14406255 - 05/05/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
John Stuart Mill




I would strongly disagree.

Though, first, I would have to hear your reasoning and what his philosophy means to you.
Because to me, most all of Utilitarianism, especially Mill's expression of it, is an extremely watered-down version of altruism.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14406262 - 05/05/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Saul Kripke


Quote:

Kripke has made influential and original contributions to logic, especially modal logic, since he was a teenager. Unusually for a professional philosopher, his only degree is an undergraduate degree from Harvard, in mathematics. His work has profoundly influenced analytic philosophy, with his principal contribution being a metaphysical description of modality, involving possible worlds as described in a system now called Kripke semantics.



Quote:

Kripke was labelled a prodigy, having taught himself Ancient Hebrew by the age of six, read the complete works of Shakespeare by nine, and mastered the works of Descartes and complex mathematical problems before graduating elementary school. He wrote his first completeness theorem in modal logic at the age of 17, and had it published a year later. After graduating from high school in 1958, Kripke attended Harvard University and graduated summa cum laude obtaining a bachelor's degree in mathematics. During his sophomore year at Harvard, Kripke taught a graduate-level logic course at nearby MIT. Upon graduation (1962) he received a Fulbright Fellowship, and in 1963 was appointed to the Society of Fellows.







This is the kind of stuff that makes me feel like an intellectual peasant for having to go to school. :frown:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Remix]
    #14406326 - 05/05/11 05:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
John Stuart Mill




I would strongly disagree.

Though, first, I would have to hear your reasoning and what his philosophy means to you.
Because to me, most all of Utilitarianism, especially Mill's expression of it, is an extremely watered-down version of altruism.



John Stuart Mill, though famous for his political and ethical philosophy, has a body of work that covers empiricism, economics, logic, and numerous other areas.  His utilitarian philosophy itself is far more nuanced than the caricature that its opponents like to make of it.  He advocated a philosophy of social liberalism, best explicated in his essay On Liberty.  He was one of the earliest feminists, though his book The Subjection of Women was not published until after his death.  He advanced the English philosophical school of empiricism well beyond the work of Locke and Hume, and in many ways anticipated the work of the American pragmatists.  His Principles of Political Economy was the standard economic textbook for nearly a century.  And as for utilitarianism, it is far from "watered-down altruism."  Like Buddhism, it identifies the central problem of the world as suffering, and seeks to mitigate that suffering as much as possible while also promoting the greatest happiness.  This may involve some degree of altruism, but not to the extent of destroying one's own happiness.

But even if you disagree with everything Mill said, it's hard to deny his genius.  By the age of 10, he had read the works of Plato and Herodotus -- in the original Greek.  That alone is enough to make him a genius.  Add to that the breadth of his intellectual work, and you have one of the greatest intellects of his age.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #14406875 - 05/05/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Dumb people trying to qualitatively rate the intelligence of geniuses, LOL.


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14407015 - 05/05/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
John Stuart Mill, though famous for his political and ethical philosophy, has a body of work that covers empiricism, economics, logic, and numerous other areas.  His utilitarian philosophy itself is far more nuanced than the caricature that its opponents like to make of it.  He advocated a philosophy of social liberalism, best explicated in his essay On Liberty.  He was one of the earliest feminists, though his book The Subjection of Women was not published until after his death.  He advanced the English philosophical school of empiricism well beyond the work of Locke and Hume, and in many ways anticipated the work of the American pragmatists.  His Principles of Political Economy was the standard economic textbook for nearly a century.  And as for utilitarianism, it is far from "watered-down altruism."  Like Buddhism, it identifies the central problem of the world as suffering, and seeks to mitigate that suffering as much as possible while also promoting the greatest happiness.  This may involve some degree of altruism, but not to the extent of destroying one's own happiness.




Here's the thing. I would criticize "social liberalism" (and to a lesser extent, western interpretations of Buddhism) for the same reasons I would criticize Utilitarianism.
My criticism mainly stems from the fact that they all paint a picture of suffering as though it can be escaped. They compromise suffering for what it is: a necessary experience.

My opinion is that pain and suffering is not something that needs to be averted or subdued, on an individual or a societal level. Trying to "escape or get rid of suffering" is misunderstanding what suffering is. Granted, not many people actually want to experience pain or suffering - physically or emotionally - but this is only because this phenomenon is not always understood for what it is: an almost sentient calling for attention. Pain needs to be felt and, in addition, be understood so that it can "fulfill its purpose" in a way.
That's one of the first things I came to discover through the use of psychedelics. Bad trips can usually be traced to some sort of pain or suffering that you were ignoring and trying to "avert your gaze" from. The learning from such trips usually comes when one has decided to take action or "integrate" changes in their life based on the painful experience.

Quote:

Silversoul said:
But even if you disagree with everything Mill said, it's hard to deny his genius.  By the age of 10, he had read the works of Plato and Herodotus -- in the original Greek.  That alone is enough to make him a genius.  Add to that the breadth of his intellectual work, and you have one of the greatest intellects of his age.




I think being a genius has to involve some level of creativity or innovativeness.
Being able to dissect and read such works at the age of 10, I'll agree, does make one very intelligent. But someone who can do this, even in multiple languages, could still be an unoriginal and uncreative intellectual drone.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Remix] * 1
    #14407105 - 05/05/11 07:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

lmao @ calling wiccan_seeker a genius. that's funny


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem] * 1
    #14407173 - 05/05/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ted Kaczynski.  :unabomber:

Quote:

As a result of testing conducted in the fifth grade, which determined he had an IQ of 167...




:whoa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: eris]
    #14407279 - 05/05/11 08:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So I can read these later I posteth this


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Silversoul]
    #14407340 - 05/05/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Among philosophers, I'd say some of the biggest geniuses would be Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Leibniz, Hume, John Stuart Mill, John Dewey, and Bertrand Russell.



Most famous philosophers were insanely smart. To some degree, to stand out in any field people must typically possess a genius of some type. Although I agree with people's views of intelligence as impossible to quantify, or measure in any meaningful way, at least through a test. I still believe genius exists...and I'm only interested in the extremes of a Da Vinci or Descartes, for the most part.

I would argue a more subtle, wide encompassing genius belonged to Albert Camus. His writing is leagues above most philosophers. It's pretty awful that he died so young. A mind like that would probably only increase in wisdom over the years and produce some delicious philosophical fruit. :shrug:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Seuss]
    #14407389 - 05/05/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Leonard Euler was the man.  His name is peppered all over science and mathematics.  He was as near to a god as anyone gets on Earth. 

Joseph Baptiste Fourier.  This guy was one of those French mathematicians that paved the way for solutions to partial differential equations.

Carl Sagan had such an intriguing mind.  He was full of ideas and a really cool person.

Nikola Tesla was a fascinating individual and he does not get the credit that is due.

Quote:

Seuss said:
John von Neumann was insanely intelligent.  He was the father of the modern computer.




Wow, I'm surprised he is known on here.  He was a genius.  He liked to party too. I use Von Neumann stability analysis sometimes.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14407450 - 05/05/11 09:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Ronald Hadley Stark I think was a genius. This man synthesized over 20 kilos of LSD and hardly anyone knows his name as where Owsley synthed about half a kilo in his career. This guy through sheer confidence got into the inner circles of Terrorist organizations in the middle east, the brotherhood of eternal love, the CIA , Italian Revolutionary circles and Asian Mafias without any of them knowing about eachother.





Wow, that was a very interesting read.  Thank you Muscaria:thumbup:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: KingEmblem]
    #14407644 - 05/05/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Nikola Tesla :wtfsonic:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: NetDiver]
    #14408596 - 05/06/11 04:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Spinoza.

He developed what is, to my mind, the greatest philosophical system in history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza#Philosophy

Quote:

Spinoza viewed God and Nature as two names for the same reality, namely the single substance (meaning "that which stands beneath" rather than "matter") that is the basis of the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually modes or modifications, that all things are determined by Nature to exist and cause effects, and that the complex chain of cause and effect is understood only in part.







Interesting :strokebeard:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: owls]
    #14408663 - 05/06/11 05:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lmao @ calling wiccan_seeker a genius. that's funny





You got me all figured out eh :awesomenod:


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: pouihi]
    #14408715 - 05/06/11 05:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pouihi said:
Wow I was just amazed to see that Al Gore was a nobel laureate for peace, that's just ridiculous.





as was Henry Kissinger, his was awarded because because he stopped the
bombing raids in Viet Nam, the same bombing raid that he started three
years prior, maybe Osama bin Laden need a nobel prize, he stopped killing
innocent people too.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14408781 - 05/06/11 06:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Along with Bush!!
I think they would make two pretty pathetic nobel prizes


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: pouihi]
    #14408803 - 05/06/11 06:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

just liek the war monger/murderer we call Mr.President


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14409053 - 05/06/11 08:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces... whatcha goin' do but murder and war?


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14409195 - 05/06/11 09:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
just liek the war monger/murderer we call Mr.President




Every president in the last century probably deserves this bizarro noble prize you guys are awarding.


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Re: Extremely smart people, real geniuses [Re: Remix]
    #14411876 - 05/06/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yeah.
Nobel Prize for Hypocrisy.


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