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InvisibleHarri


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 1,452
How does LSD trigger schizophrenia?
    #14399693 - 05/04/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How does this happen? Like the transition from being on lsd to being a schizophrenic? is it so sudden or is it a gradual change. Always wanted to hear of those who have gone through this.


Edited by Harri (05/04/11 12:30 PM)


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OfflineThird i
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Harri]
    #14400092 - 05/04/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

IMO I think its gradual. But I also think it won't actually take effect until you have a 'bad' trip. Each bad trip makes it worse. I think I almost went schizophrenic because I didn't know what I was doing. I was tripping around people I didn't know and everyone knew. When the trip wore off I felt like no matter where I went everyone was watching me. I literally thought everyone was watching me and knew I was losing it. I've taken a break since then. I think its very important to spread trips out because if you don't each trip will follow the same thought pattern of your last trip. And if its a bad trip, your trips will just get worse.

A lot of people don't realize that LSD somewhat programs the way your brain works. And how your thinking in the trip, reflects on how you think when the trip wears off. I still feel kinda weird around strangers. I'm trying to plan a way to reverse what I did. My plan is to candy flip. I think the MDMA takes away the anxiety and fills me with confidence. So I'll feel confident when the trip wears off. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong... but so far my experience with these drugs tells me I'm right.


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Offlinearekusu
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Third i]
    #14400177 - 05/04/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Can you elaborate Third I? I had an absolutely horrible trip in January that I am still recovering from.


--------------------
Moodion said:
There's only one way to answer that frustrating question of "what was it like?".

You hand the fucker The Machine packed with an 80mg dose and wave goodbye.


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InvisibleAustrip
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Third i]
    #14400191 - 05/04/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

LSD doesn't trigger it instantly as the word suggests.

Usually a person has schizophrenia from the time their born, it's just a time bomb waiting to go off sometime in their life, the general consensus is that LSD can act as the catalyst to an early onset of schizophrenia, but it's likely that the person would have gotten schizophrenic symptoms at sometime in their life with or without LSD.

The way it happens is subjective to each individual case, as schizophrenia and other such diseases are deeply complex illnesses in the mind.
But I've known a few schizos that tripped in my life, some diagnosed, others you just know. 
But most of the time they were pretty chill when tripping, occasionally their voices would start and they would eat anti psychotics or valium or whatever they had on hand and go home. Sometimes they were outright fucking nutcases though as well.

Generally the way it happens though, in the traditional sense, is that a young guy/girl will drop acid, have a fucked up trip, not really come down even a few weeks later, and eventually have full blown psychotic breakdowns a lot of the time if left untreated.


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Offlinearekusu
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Austrip]
    #14400201 - 05/04/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm gonna make a new thread, I have a story I have been meaning to tell someone for a while now.


--------------------
Moodion said:
There's only one way to answer that frustrating question of "what was it like?".

You hand the fucker The Machine packed with an 80mg dose and wave goodbye.


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OfflineThird i
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: arekusu]
    #14400221 - 05/04/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

arekusu said:
I'm gonna make a new thread, I have a story I have been meaning to tell someone for a while now.



Ok I'll try to help.


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Offlinebholzer
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: arekusu]
    #14400233 - 05/04/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

arekusu said:
Can you elaborate Third I? I had an absolutely horrible trip in January that I am still recovering from.




I'm in a similar spot. Life has been slightly different for me since one of my more recent trips.

Can't wait to see that new tread.


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Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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OfflineBlackHat
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: arekusu]
    #14400347 - 05/04/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

arekusu said:
I'm gonna make a new thread, I have a story I have been meaning to tell someone for a while now.





Let us know when u post it. I'm interested in your story.


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Offlinearekusu
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: bholzer]
    #14400348 - 05/04/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, I am working on it now. Its gonna take a while to type.


--------------------
Moodion said:
There's only one way to answer that frustrating question of "what was it like?".

You hand the fucker The Machine packed with an 80mg dose and wave goodbye.


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OfflineThird i
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: arekusu]
    #14400425 - 05/04/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Make sure you include as much detail as you can. For example, your thoughts before the trip, your thoughts during the trip, your thoughts after the trip, what substances were used, who was with you, where were you...? Just as much detail as you can.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Registered: 05/04/11
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: arekusu]
    #14400450 - 05/04/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What exactly is a''psychotic breakdown '' ?


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Offlinebholzer
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400470 - 05/04/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It is an event in which psychosis starts to show itself. After the breakdown, the level of psychosis varies between the individual.

THIS is a good link about psychosis


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Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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InvisibleAustrip
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400480 - 05/04/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
What exactly is a''psychotic breakdown '' ?




IMO the specific type of psychotic breakdown that usually follows a bad psychedelic reaction is the dis attachment of yourself from the normal reality of everyone else. People slowly slip through the cracks of normality and fall into delusion


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Offlineic3.qu33n
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Harri]
    #14400532 - 05/04/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

actually this was the discussion in one of my classes the other day.  a psychotic breakdown can be triggered by a single use (mostly high doses) or the long term use to a permanent state of being.  lsd modifies the receptors, dendrites and reuputake in the brain, also altering dopamine levels, and I would assume GABA and serotonin levels as well.  With long term and chronic use the brain can be permanently modified to these levels and induce psychosis.  basically on LSD the brain works harder.

there also is a theory that follows with all hallucinogens, that there has always been an underlying mental illness condition and the drug had brought it out from the woodwork.

back in the days LSD was actually used to treat psychosis, but soon someone modified it and it became known to become recreationally used.


--------------------
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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Austrip]
    #14400553 - 05/04/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Aren't hallucinogens ''psycho-mimetic''drugs ?
This would mean that they induce psychotic mind states ?
So tripping in a way, is like having a psychotic breakdown.


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Offlineic3.qu33n
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400576 - 05/04/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

psycho-tropic.  i suppose mimetic would work too.  psychedelics alter your brain waves and function.

i believe that they can uncover underlying conditions that pre-existed though


--------------------
:alert: Disclaimer: Anything, I've said I do or done, or say is a complete facade of my dog Dr. Myco McRufferton's dream lifestyle. :alert:

Freestone Texas Grow

<<:mushroom2:Freestone Texas and B+ Prints available for Trade:mushroom2:>> PM me


My 5g Bucket Dehydrator Tek


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InvisibleAustrip
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400584 - 05/04/11 03:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yeah but there is like 20+ words that all describe hallucinogens/psychedelics. Rick Strassman has a paragraph on it at the start of the book DMT: the spirit molecule.

I prefer the term psychedelic or mind manifesting as it avoids the negative connotations of hallucinogen


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Offlinebholzer
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400600 - 05/04/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
Aren't hallucinogens ''psycho-mimetic''drugs ?
This would mean that they induce psychotic mind states ?
So tripping in a way, is like having a psychotic breakdown.




Yea, which is fun, when you're under the influence, and want it to happen. But when it stays, it's scary!


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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InvisibleAustrip
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Austrip]
    #14400622 - 05/04/11 03:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

back in the days LSD was actually used to treat psychosis, but soon someone modified it and it became known to become recreationally used




link?

Didn't LSD get sent out into the therapeutic and psychology departments by sandoz where it was given to test subjects (volunteers), where it then "escaped from the lab" onto the streets?

The tests on schizophrenics with LSD where done in the 50's (I think) and where not standard therapy for mental illness by any means.


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InvisibleHarri


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 1,452
Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: bholzer]
    #14400655 - 05/04/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I find getting your ego too big while on psychs and thinking you can handle anything that comes usually will end up fucking you over when a hellish bad trip ensues. Keeping the drugs effect on your mind equal to your respect for the drug usually keeps thing in a yin yangish type experience that nothing really bad can happen since its all just a projection anyway. Does that make any sense?


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Austrip]
    #14400697 - 05/04/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Tripping changed my perception of the world around me permanently... Does being disconnected from consensus reality make you psychotic ?
How far disconnected from it you got to be in order to be labeled as Schizo ?


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InvisibleHarri


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 1,452
Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400721 - 05/04/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
Tripping changed my perception of the world around me permanently... Does being disconnected from consensus reality make you psychotic ?
How far disconnected from it you got to be in order to be labeled as Schizo ?



I think being disconnected from reality isnt bad unless it gets out of control.
perfect example of the insane kind of crazy.



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InvisibleAustrip
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400729 - 05/04/11 04:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

its actually not that far out from normality you have to go before the medical society would label you as psychotic.
But with that said, if a doctor read half the spiritual crazy ideas people post here then we would all be labeled as crazies.

feeling separated from reality after a big trip is normal, its a shock to the body and mind to go from another dimension and come back to the dull world we have.

I compare it to the problem that celebrities have, a lot of them when they come off a big show or finish a movie return to a normal live where theres nobody watching them, nobody interested, no crowd and they go bat shit fucking crazy from it. They get so used to have 10,000 people in front of them that when it's just them back in normality it doesn't seem normal anymore.

hope that makes sense haha :peace:


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Harri]
    #14400765 - 05/04/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

hahahahahaha !!!!!
I feel better about my sanity upon seeing this :cool:





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InvisibleHarri


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 1,452
Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14400808 - 05/04/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Are you saying this is guy isn't normal? I see no problem with his methods


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OfflineNunbuh_Chrubble
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Harri]
    #14400990 - 05/04/11 05:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD#Psychosis

Quote:

There are some cases of LSD inducing a psychosis in people who appeared to be healthy before taking LSD.[67] In most cases, the psychosis-like reaction is of short duration, but in other cases it may be chronic. It is difficult to determine whether LSD itself induces these reactions or if it triggers latent conditions that would have manifested themselves otherwise. The similarities of time course and outcomes between putatively LSD-precipitated and other psychoses suggest that the two types of syndromes are not different and that LSD may have been a nonspecific trigger.

Estimates of the prevalence of LSD-induced prolonged psychosis lasting over 48 hours have been made by surveying researchers and therapists who had administered LSD:

    * Cohen (1960) estimated 0.8 per 1,000 volunteers (the single case among approximately 1250 study volunteers was the identical twin of a schizophrenic and he recovered within 5 days) and 1.8 per 1,000 psychiatric patients (7 cases among approximately 3850 patients, of which 2 cases were "preschizophrenic" or had previous hallucinatory experience, 1 case had unknown outcome, 1 case had incomplete recovery, and 5 cases recovered within up to 6 months).[68]
    * Malleson (1971) reported no cases of psychosis among experimental subjects (170 volunteers who received a total of 450 LSD sessions) and estimated 9 per 1,000 among psychiatric patients (37 cases among 4300 patients, of which 8 details are unknown, 10 appeared chronic, and 19 recovered completely within up to 3 months).[42]

However, in neither survey study was it possible to compare the rate of lasting psychosis in these volunteers and patients receiving LSD with the rate of psychosis found in other groups of research volunteers or in other methods of psychiatric treatment (for example, those receiving placebo).

Cohen (1960) noted:[68]

    "The hallucinogenic experience is so striking that many subsequent disturbances may be attributed to it without further justification. The highly suggestible or hysterical individual would tend to focus on his LSD experience to explain subsequent illness. Patients have complained to Abramson that their LSD exposure produced migraine headaches and attacks of influenza up to a year later. One Chinese girl became paraplegic and ascribed that catastrophe to LSD. It so happened that these people were all in the control group and had received nothing but tap water."

Peter Green, founder of the band Fleetwood Mac, is a popular example of a psychosis, Schizophrenia in this instance, attributed to LSD abuse.[69]




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How does LSD trigger schizophrenia? [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #14401809 - 05/04/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

who we are and what we are is closely connected
both our habits and our genetics come into play.

my father-in-law's whole family has what looks like parkinson's disease but it is actually non-essential tremors - i.e. habit - a habit of shaking while trying to focus. nerves you might say.

things that are repeated become engrained and nearly impossible to stop.

why then does his whole family have it, is genetics giving a habit?
no, more likely the exposure of family members to eachother is more likely how the behavior is passed on.

weird but not so weird.

shizophrenia is a disease that is a lot like non-essential tremor.
when it is established it is definitely a physical illness with chemical imballance, but while it is getting established, it is more in the category of behavior,
patterns of reaction,
phrases and gestures,
timing and side comments,
a style of resisting accepting what is happening...

when the habits get engrained they become the personality, but the kind of habits they are contribute to what we have come to regard as paranoid schizophrenia.

the behaviors get intense and a feedback effect occurs changing the brain chemistry, and voila, classic schizophrenia.

and that it runs in the family is not much different than nonessential tremor. a tranfer of habit of behavior complexes.

----------------------------------------

ok so what about psychedelics triggering this stuff,
well,
psychedelic will facilitate simultaneous layers of sensation and mentation, as if time was both standing still and marching on.
in this way we can have one personality reaction and it will continue while we have another one, and while they both continue we can experience a commentary to both of them, and it really feels nuts.

the content of the voices of those personalities will be what we normally experience, so if we have been playing in an area that is close to paranoid schizophrenia, this will be fine opportunity to have multiple antagonistic personality gestures concurrent in the mind, and it can really be enough to set a precedent.

it is just an amplification of what we already are.

the predisposition is the kind of thinking and role playing that we are accustomed to.
it relates to family psychodrama and to school psychodrama.

I recommend studying to get a good perspective on how what we do becomes habit, in order to be a good tripper and avoid the dangers. also dose wisely and be gentle with your life.


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