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Offlinemooshroom
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Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 70
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Few noob questions about casing
    #14395022 - 05/03/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm having 4 cakes at their second flushes. The flushes are in progress, few days since pinning.

I am considering casing the cakes, using water crystals, as described here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8926890#8926890


As I understand, for casing I should do the following (please correct or add to it if necessary!):

I break the cakes with a spoon
Put casing on the bottom, over it I put the cake chunks, and over the cake chunks another layer of casing. Inside a tray with the walls covered (so light only is available from above).
Then place tray in terrarium, where I mist every now and then, and keep proper temperatures and light cycles.

Correct?

As for the casing layer, I will be using only water crystals.

Now I have a few questions --
1. won't the mycelium suffocate, isolated as it is by the two casing layers?
2. is it okay to case my cakes after 2 flushes, instead of from the beginning?
3. out of curiosity, what difference would it make if I just "sink" the cakes in the water crystals, instead of breaking them into small chunks?

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OfflineMOPE
Walking Chemical Reaction


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 831
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14395127 - 05/03/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

theres no reason to case cakes that have already started fruiting, breaking up the mycelium will just make it loose more energy.

and if youre gonna case i would use a 50/50+ mix, not water crystals.  his results werent even good from that.


--------------------
Got used to the feeling of falling
But you'll never see me following
Bouncing back and forth between the healing and the hollering
Riding the outer ring of my own private saturn
Thoughts scattered all across the grey matter

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Offlinemooshroom
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Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 70
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: MOPE]
    #14395158 - 05/03/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

his results were better than the ones i got from the first two flushes of my cakes ( http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14387355 ), so i'd be happy to improve to his level.

Edited by mooshroom (05/04/11 06:33 AM)

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Offlineluluzuluwoundtdou


Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 200
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14395191 - 05/03/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

dont case man


--------------------
Disclaimer: Im a habitual liar. Anything i say and post is just in my alterior mental reality where i just post up.

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Offlinemooshroom
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Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 70
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: luluzuluwoundtdou]
    #14398289 - 05/04/11 04:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

rss6612 said:
dont case man




i'm more of a rational person.. if i am to be convinced of something, I noticed reasoning rather than affective persuasion works better :smile: I'm sure it's your case as well.

y do think it wud be better not to case?

Edited by mooshroom (05/04/11 04:13 AM)

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Offlineluluzuluwoundtdou


Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 200
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14398302 - 05/04/11 04:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

WEll from what ive read so far(i sit here all day for the past 8 months :3) Cubes dont really need a casing later at all and yields arent dramatically affecte by it. Also it adds more of a contam risk


--------------------
Disclaimer: Im a habitual liar. Anything i say and post is just in my alterior mental reality where i just post up.

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OfflineMOPE
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Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14398968 - 05/04/11 09:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mooshroom said:
Quote:

rss6612 said:
dont case man




i'm more of a rational person.. if i am to be convinced of something, I noticed reasoning rather than affective persuasion works better :smile: I'm sure it's your case as well.

y do think it wud be better not to case?





Quote:

MOPE said:
theres no reason to case cakes that have already started fruiting, breaking up the mycelium will just make it loose more energy.






If you break up and case cakes after theyve already had a flush or two, youre gonna be fucked, the mycelium will have trouble forming a full network again and your yields will be terrible.

You can case right after you birth, some get better results from it, but others find it unnecessary.

Also, like i said, theres a reason no one here uses "water crystals" to case, because a 50/50+ mix or something similar is much more effective.


--------------------
Got used to the feeling of falling
But you'll never see me following
Bouncing back and forth between the healing and the hollering
Riding the outer ring of my own private saturn
Thoughts scattered all across the grey matter

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OfflineAnarchyfest
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Registered: 04/18/10
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Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: MOPE]
    #14399124 - 05/04/11 10:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That top  layer of water crystal did look cool.
Id probably do that for novelty purposes.
But id still suggest mgmc Or jiffymix.
If ur determined to crumble a cake for casing, at least spawn it to coir Or manure. I do.. here's a pic of Wat I got from a cake /coir w/1:1 ratio.


--------------------
If you must live by the sword, then you will die by the sword.

Edited by Anarchyfest (05/04/11 10:24 AM)

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Offlinemooshroom
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Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 70
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14399612 - 05/04/11 11:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

please consider the context in which I'm trying to take this decision:

- water crystals are available to me, proper casing mix would require PC (don't have one), and a lot of time spent travelling to the necessary shops to buy the stuff.

- I got dwarf fruits during my first two flushes; so a mediocre crop on the casing would be better than what I seem to be able to achieve without it.

- the only reason for the dwarf fruits that I can think of (and that has been suggested to me by others) is lack of humidity, and casing does provide better humidity, no?


But, thank you for your interest so far in inputting to this thread.

And also, if you happen to know the answers to those questions...

Quote:

mooshroom said:
As I understand, for casing I should do the following (please correct or add to it if necessary!):

I break the cakes with a spoon
Put casing on the bottom, over it I put the cake chunks, and over the cake chunks another layer of casing. Inside a tray with the walls covered (so light only is available from above).
Then place tray in terrarium, where I mist every now and then, and keep proper temperatures and light cycles.

Correct?

As for the casing layer, I will be using only water crystals.

Now I have a few questions --
1. won't the mycelium suffocate, isolated as it is by the two casing layers?
3. out of curiosity, what difference would it make if I just "sink" the cakes in the water crystals, instead of breaking them into small chunks?



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OfflineMOPE
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Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 831
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: MOPE]
    #14399640 - 05/04/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MOPE said:

Quote:

MOPE said:
theres no reason to case cakes that have already started fruiting, breaking up the mycelium will just make it loose more energy.






If you break up and case cakes after theyve already had a flush or two, youre gonna be fucked, the mycelium will have trouble forming a full network again and your yields will be terrible.

You can case right after you birth, some get better results from it, but others find it unnecessary.

Also, like i said, theres a reason no one here uses "water crystals" to case, because a 50/50+ mix or something similar is much more effective.




I completely understand you're situation, believe me, I'm trying to help you out here. 

But if you got two shitty flushes out of your cakes the flushes will probably be even worse if you case mid-fruiting. 

And you can easily make 50/50 without a PC, just pasteurize it. 
http://www.shroomery.org/54/50-50-Casing-Tek



--------------------
Got used to the feeling of falling
But you'll never see me following
Bouncing back and forth between the healing and the hollering
Riding the outer ring of my own private saturn
Thoughts scattered all across the grey matter

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Offlinebroken
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Posts: 14,063
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Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: MOPE]
    #14400826 - 05/04/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

don't case something that has started to fruit.

if u want to case u should move your PF cakes to a bulk sub like grain or coir. then case that. i have had poor results when attempting to case BRF.


--------------------
:willynilly:

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Offlinemooshroom
Stranger

Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 70
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: MOPE]
    #14400858 - 05/04/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MOPE said:
Quote:

MOPE said:

Quote:

MOPE said:
theres no reason to case cakes that have already started fruiting, breaking up the mycelium will just make it loose more energy.






If you break up and case cakes after theyve already had a flush or two, youre gonna be fucked, the mycelium will have trouble forming a full network again and your yields will be terrible.

You can case right after you birth, some get better results from it, but others find it unnecessary.

Also, like i said, theres a reason no one here uses "water crystals" to case, because a 50/50+ mix or something similar is much more effective.




I completely understand you're situation, believe me, I'm trying to help you out here. 

But if you got two shitty flushes out of your cakes the flushes will probably be even worse if you case mid-fruiting. 

And you can easily make 50/50 without a PC, just pasteurize it. 
http://www.shroomery.org/54/50-50-Casing-Tek






ahh, i should've been more specific -- it's vermiculite and everything else that i don't have access to either, besides a PC.

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OfflineSKrink
KING MOB
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Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 1,042
Last seen: 11 years, 17 days
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: MOPE]
    #14401073 - 05/04/11 05:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mooshroom said:
- the only reason for the dwarf fruits that I can think of (and that has been suggested to me by others) is lack of humidity, and casing does provide better humidity, no?





dwarf fruits = not enough fresh air, no?

But if your only reason for casing is to increase humidity, why not mist more?

That way you don't have to crumble your cakes, demanding even more energy from a half-spent 2nd flush cake.

Assuming you've already tried misting more and didn't get the results you wanted, and have ZERO verm left from making the cakes... how bout giving your cake a wax paper umbrella?

I can't find the link at the moment, but a sheet of crumpled wax paper placed over an uncased sub will hold a highly humid microclimate at the surface of the sub.

If I remember correctly though, this is more of a pinning strategy than a fruit-maturation strategy... seems like you would have to cut dorky little holes in the wax paper for your pins to poke through if you want to use it in your case, heheheh

If you're set on using these water crystals, is it possible for you to just roll your cakes in it? (as per dunk-n-roll?) Why do you need to crumble?

Although...

Quote:

MOPE said:

theres no reason to case cakes that have already started fruiting, breaking up the mycelium will just make it loose more energy.

If you break up and case cakes after theyve already had a flush or two, youre gonna be fucked, the mycelium will have trouble forming a full network again and your yields will be terrible.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Offlinemooshroom
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Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 70
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: SKrink]
    #14401095 - 05/04/11 05:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the thing is -- I've injected my cakes with 5-10cc of water every day; i've misted & fanned a lot, added holes to the fc, AND partly covered the cakes with water crystals (as you suggested; it just doesn't stick very well, tho..)

and I still got dwarf fruits -- although, they matured twice as fast, and are twice as thick; but, still very, very short. so I'm just trying to figure what else to do.

also, i am curios --

when casing, doesn't the mycelium suffocate, isolated as it is by the two casing layers?

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OfflineTrustYourSelf
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Registered: 04/13/11
Posts: 271
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14401241 - 05/04/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I break the cakes with a spoon
Put casing on the bottom, over it I put the cake chunks, and over the cake chunks another layer of casing. Inside a tray with the walls covered (so light only is available from above).
Then place tray in terrarium, where I mist every now and then, and keep proper temperatures and light cycles.

Correct?

As for the casing layer, I will be using only water crystals.

Now I have a few questions --
1. won't the mycelium suffocate, isolated as it is by the two casing layers?
2. is it okay to case my cakes after 2 flushes, instead of from the beginning?
3. out of curiosity, what difference would it make if I just "sink" the cakes in the water crystals, instead of breaking them into small chunks?





Don't do anything you just posted.

You could spawn which is breaking up a cake and mixing it with subsrate.

You don't spawn using cakes that fruited.

A casing layer is generally a top layer.

If you want your cakes to have more moisture you dunk them.

I don't know anyone using this water crystal method you speak of.

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Offlinear1es
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Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: TrustYourSelf]
    #14403038 - 05/04/11 11:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

casing doenst need a pc

you dont need a casing layer

i tried casing a few times

takes a bit longer than normal because it adds an extra step

after the first flush the casing is a pain in the ass when you are trying to dunk between flushes

reading on this site for over a year, growing for a while now

if you utse you will see casings dont add anything to yield but some people like to use them to get even pinsets


--------------------
":mushroom2:here is nothing lost or wasted in this life.” - Bhagavad Gita

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OfflineSKrink
KING MOB
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Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14407312 - 05/05/11 08:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mooshroom said:
when casing, doesn't the mycelium suffocate, isolated as it is by the two casing layers?




When casing, only one layer (top) is necessary.

The casing layer is made of 50/50 peat/verm precisely because these materials, hydrated to optimal capacity, give you a nice light FLUFFY OPEN mixture.

This mixture allows air to permeate through the casing layer, so suffocating is a non-issue.

Are your water crystals light, fluffy, and open?


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Offlinemooshroom
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Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: SKrink]
    #14408699 - 05/06/11 05:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

cheers.

yup, they are light, fluffy and open.

and btw -- they are used in this product as well, proving that water crystals are actually becoming mainstream rather than experimental:

http://www.appliedmicroscience.co.uk/myco-farm/StageTwo.html

(disregard the pictures, they are outdated; the new "dry polymer" mentioned in the text = water crystals)

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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14408886 - 05/06/11 07:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mooshroom said:
Put casing on the bottom, over it I put the cake chunks, and over the cake chunks another layer of casing.




Casing the bottom of a substrate is just shy of useless.  The real reason to case is that it creates a suitable microclimate for primordia formation.  It helps to give the substrate a little extra moisture, but it's not supposed to be a water reservoir.

If you think your cakes are lacking in moisture, add a little more vermiculite to the PF recipe.

EDIT: If you actually wanted to try out water crystals, you can try adding them into the PF recipe as well.

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OfflineSKrink
KING MOB
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Re: Few noob questions about casing [Re: mooshroom]
    #14411356 - 05/06/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mooshroom said:
and btw -- they are used in this product as well, proving that water crystals are actually becoming mainstream rather than experimental





It proves this? Really?

The only thing it "proves" is that different people use different materials to achieve the same effect, but that takes understanding the effect you're looking for.

In this case, I feel like people were trying to explain that crumbling and casing your cakes mid-2ndflush will set your myc back even further, regardless of what casing mix you use.

When this was ignored, the community offered up the casing mix known to work from experience, rather than say go ahead with the material we've not seen results from. It's not a matter of how "mainstream" it is.

I agree with Sillycibin, try out the crystals on a fresh batch. Get to know their properties and how they can best be applied to the process. Post results.

I look forward to seeing new information on this site! Good luck!


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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