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OfflineiPRiSTiNE
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Registered: 03/05/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14396879 - 05/03/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
Quote:

Then whoever conducted this study isn't very intelligible on the subject considering this is also different for every person and how their brain works, including another barrage of variables i dont want to go over.




so your saying you can't come up with any conclusions regarding ecstasy?

What else would you like me to come up with?

also people's brains don't function as exactly the same as the next person, but in general they function the same way.

I mentioned this and generally everyone's brain is at least a little different than anothers.

Quote:


And the fact that it depletes all your serotonin when used means if used constantly or at unnecessary  doses




yea if used too much, but it doesn't mean it won't go back to normal, it just means it will take longer compared to someone who does it less.
neuroplasticity is a proven concept
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity

Yes your brain can go back to normal but there can be permanent damage with most drugs, which doesn't ruin your life but if enough accumulates it will have an important effect on you. explain the basic concept and the importance of neuroplasticity to me if you could. Single ecs use will deplete a considerable amount if not all of your serotonin and yes you would have to use it somewhat frequently to begin to experience this effect. Kinda sounds to me like you take drugs a little lightly, you don't have to come up with exact scientific results to be intelligible about drugs..The fact that 90% of what the government releases about drugs is propaganda doesn't help.

Quote:


and after awhile of use any drug (even weed) can cause less communication between your brain hemispheres then your front temporal lobe will function less (which is in charge of your decisions and cognitive activity) which then just leaves the back of your brain which is in charge of memory, seeing, and hearing everything




you got a peer-reviewed source for that?

You could have just looked it up on the internet and found out its true. I know alot more on any of this topics and drugs than the average american or drug user. I actually do have peers that could prove it but that question was also a huge fucking joke.

Quote:

multitude of personal experience with ravers from colorado at my old treatment center and still meet more when i visit.




since when is personal experience used as a basis of fact?




Im just trying to say I can produce more evidence from real people than anything you can read about online trust me or not its your damn choice, im just glad i know and can say what is and isnt when i want.

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OfflineKonyap


Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14396890 - 05/03/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i got a good dicksuck in a restroom stall for some extacy and all I could help noticing was the braaaaaaIIN.

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OfflineLoveYourLife
MDMA


Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 2,076
Loc: Cincinnati
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: iPRiSTiNE]
    #14396897 - 05/03/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dude, just shut the fuck up already.  If you don't have the evidence to present to us than we don't care about your half assed opinions.

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OfflineiPRiSTiNE
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14396905 - 05/03/11 09:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LoveYourLife said:
Quote:

iPRiSTiNE said:
I just explained as much neuroscience as needed in the post above yours, if you need to know neuron firing is what does all the communicating in your brain for this. Your a common Etard though so unless you begin to compile a better argument than mine then I won't feel the need to give a better response to your ignorant idiotic behavior. I've even had a  multitude of personal experience with ravers from colorado at my old treatment center and still meet more when i visit. And with the intensity involved with the euphoria of ecstasy alone its hilarious how anyone can begin to think a chemical of that stregnth won't have any effect AT ALL on you, abuse the hell out of it and have a good time while your at it but save up a little money to have your brain scanned at the doctors when you feel ready. Ill enjoy using a pure 75 mg dose with 75 mg of MDA (way better) once to twice a month if i even feel like it or am not terribly busy with my life.




You didn't explain shit.  All you did was give a brief overview of basic neurological function that I learned in high school and my freshmen year of college.  Congratulations, I hope you feel good about yourself trying to sound smart when in reality you look like even more of dumbass for trying to summarize something that is still in debate by the top scientists in the world. 

It's cool though, keep using your confirmation bias to seek out information based on the opinion you've already made in your head. 

I think I'll wait until some better information comes out before I make my final judgement :facepalm:




Okay good job for somewhat showing your on the same level of paying attention in school as I am but regardless I've compared sober peoples behavior with heavy ecstasy users and have also seen peoples own charts that shows a hole or holes in their brain from raving/mdma use. But what the hell ever Etards just dont eat ridiculous or even semi consistent amounts of ecstasy, you can claim to not know the truth to whether ecstasy effects the brain and that its such a huge mystery that needs to be solved. tell me what you find in even 10 years and there still will be conflicting scientific studys and a tip: i find it useful to find out any facts about anything on my own and conduct my own personal studys on most stuff to be actually informed on something. There's alot of ignorant people out there.

Edited by iPRiSTiNE (05/03/11 09:23 PM)

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OfflineLoveYourLife
MDMA


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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: iPRiSTiNE]
    #14396921 - 05/03/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iPRiSTiNE said:
Quote:

LoveYourLife said:
Quote:

iPRiSTiNE said:
I just explained as much neuroscience as needed in the post above yours, if you need to know neuron firing is what does all the communicating in your brain for this. Your a common Etard though so unless you begin to compile a better argument than mine then I won't feel the need to give a better response to your ignorant idiotic behavior. I've even had a  multitude of personal experience with ravers from colorado at my old treatment center and still meet more when i visit. And with the intensity involved with the euphoria of ecstasy alone its hilarious how anyone can begin to think a chemical of that stregnth won't have any effect AT ALL on you, abuse the hell out of it and have a good time while your at it but save up a little money to have your brain scanned at the doctors when you feel ready. Ill enjoy using a pure 75 mg dose with 75 mg of MDA (way better) once to twice a month if i even feel like it or am not terribly busy with my life.




You didn't explain shit.  All you did was give a brief overview of basic neurological function that I learned in high school and my freshmen year of college.  Congratulations, I hope you feel good about yourself trying to sound smart when in reality you look like even more of dumbass for trying to summarize something that is still in debate by the top scientists in the world. 

It's cool though, keep using your confirmation bias to seek out information based on the opinion you've already made in your head. 

I think I'll wait until some better information comes out before I make my final judgement :facepalm:




Okay good job for somewhat showing your on the same level of paying attention in school as I am but regardless I've compared sober peoples behavior with heavy ecstasy users and have also seen peoples own charts that shows a hole or holes in their brain from raving/mdma use.





You're trolling right?  If you are seriously talking about the NIDA brain images that showed "holes" in the brain, I'm about to make you look really.. really fucking stupid.

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OfflineLoveYourLife
MDMA


Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 2,076
Loc: Cincinnati
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14396938 - 05/03/11 09:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)





LOL ITS YOUR BRAIN ON ECSTASY! SEE DA HOLES?!

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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14396941 - 05/03/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LoveYourLife said:

I think I'll wait until some better information comes out before I make my final judgement :facepalm:




already has.

check chapter 10. (Serotonin) of 'The Biochemical Basis for Neuropharmocology, 8th Ed.' (Oxford press).
no gov't propaganda there, just evidence and references.

Quote:

"Fine axons with small varicosities originate from the dorsal raphe nuclei, and beaded axons with large spherical varicosities arise from the median raphe nuclei. These two types of 5-HT-containing axon have different regional and laminar distributions and appear to be differentially sensitive to the neurotoxic effects of certain amphetamine derivatives, including 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), referred to more commonly as "ecstasy." The fine axons are much more sensitive to the neurotoxic effects than the beaded axons, and the loss of fine axons lasts for months and may be permanent. Beaded axons appear to be resistant and remain unaffected following neurotoxic treatment with MDMA. This finding may be relevant to human studies, which have indicated that individuals using MDMA as a recreational drug may be exposed to dosages approximating those shown to exhibit serotonin neurotoxicity in nonhuman primates. A 26% decrease in the serotonin metabolite 5-HIAA was observed in the cerebrospinal fluid of MDMA users. This indirect evidence of a decrease in serotonin turnover in the brain perhaps reflects destruction or compromised function of this fine serotonin-containing axon system. Further studies of MDMA users seem warranted and could provide important information on the effects of selective loss of this fine axon system in humans. At present, the functional roles played by the fine and beaded axon systems and whether the functions are distinct or similar remain unclear. In serial section analysis of 5-HT terminals in the primate visual cortex, the fine and fat boutons appeared to coexist in the same axon, arguing against distinct 5-HT innervation of this brain region."




your opinion means sh!t.


--------------------
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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Offlinewithoutawire
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14396956 - 05/03/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Pristine-


You have NO idea what you are talking about.

Not to mention drugs don't put holes in your brain is the first obvious thing I am going to mention that's wrong with everything you said.


You also did not prove or back up anything. All you did was explain some VERY basic things about how drugs work. What does that matter at all?


Quote:

. Ill enjoy using a pure 75 mg dose with 75 mg of MDA (way better) once to twice a month if i even feel like it or am not terribly busy with my life.





LOL your name should be I-Pretentious.


--------------------
:tigerbunny:

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OfflineLoveYourLife
MDMA


Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 2,076
Loc: Cincinnati
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: piracetam]
    #14396984 - 05/03/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
Quote:

LoveYourLife said:

I think I'll wait until some better information comes out before I make my final judgement :facepalm:




already has.

check chapter 10. (Serotonin) of 'The Biochemical Basis for Neuropharmocology, 8th Ed.' (Oxford press).
no gov't propaganda there, just evidence and references.

your opinion means sh!t.





I never claimed Ecstasy doesn't cause damage, in all likelihood it probably does to some degree, as I stated earlier.  I am not disagreeing with you on that.  The fact is that we really don't know anything for sure, as a 100% fact.  We have some studies claiming one direction and others claiming a completely different one.

If you are honestly making a positive decision on something that has EXTREME variables and very limited research, you probably should reconsider that.

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OfflineiPRiSTiNE
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14397016 - 05/03/11 09:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well tell me how do you think a drug like this with such overwhelming effects does nothing negative to you considering many years of constant pot smoking will make your brain look different? (E is a little bit stronger..) You think its even questionable that ecstasy does nothing to you? I think very much the opposite and ive interpreted what i think about alot of drugs and dont see how its such a huge question with ecs which also just doesnt make sense to me with all the users ive met in person and what theyre like. My 2 cents.

Btw I would never think college studies involve government propoganda nonethless any dealing with our government.

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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14397020 - 05/03/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

there is a direct correlation between extensive MDMA use and depleted metabolites, and plasticity is probably moot. in those who've
extensively abused the drug, the axonal damage would have progressed to the point where regeneration is not possible.

this is no longer the speculative issue of the 90's, where denial was rampant, there is clear evidence of it.
what isn't clear is the extent of function loss in lateral areas


--------------------
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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OfflineLoveYourLife
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: piracetam]
    #14397060 - 05/03/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iPRiSTiNE said:
Well tell me how do you think a drug like this with such overwhelming effects does nothing negative to you considering many years of constant pot smoking will make your brain look different? (E is a little bit stronger..) You think its even questionable that ecstasy does nothing to you? I think very much the opposite and ive interpreted what i think about alot of drugs and dont see how its such a huge question with ecs which also just doesnt make sense to me with all the users ive met in person and what theyre like. My 2 cents.

Btw I would never think college studies involve government propoganda nonethless any dealing with our government.




Dude, your interpretations of things don't mean shit.  One of the first rules of science is that correlation does not equal causation.  I'd really like to see this study of yours that shows marijuana has lasting effects on the brain.  No seriously, show it to me.

Quote:

piracetam said:
there is a direct correlation between extensive MDMA use and depleted metabolites, and plasticity is probably moot. in those who've
extensively abused the drug, the axonal damage would have progressed to the point where regeneration is not possible.




This I would agree with.

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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: piracetam]
    #14397071 - 05/03/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Im just trying to say I can produce more evidence from real people than anything you can read about online trust me or not its your damn choice, im just glad i know and can say what is and isnt when i want.




so you know more about ecstasy than brain experts doing research?
and how do you these real people weren't using other drugs, or that they didn't have problems before using, or that they never returned to normal?

Quote:

already has.

check chapter 10. (Serotonin) of 'The Biochemical Basis for Neuropharmocology, 8th Ed.' (Oxford press).
no gov't propaganda there, just evidence and references.




just because references are mentioned in a textbook, doesn't mean the studies weren't funded by the government. also like i showed before, some studies are showing permanent changes, while others aren't.

Quote:


this is no longer the speculative issue of the 90's, where denial was rampant, there is clear evidence of it.




there's also evidence of the opposite.


also from the study i posted

Quote:

“As well as the actual pill-poppers, the non-using control group were also apparently "members of the 'rave' subculture,’ the statement said, “And thus repeatedly exposed to sleep and fluid deprivation from all-night dancing - factors that themselves can produce long-lasting cognitive effects




how are you so sure this isn't what's causing the effects on the brain?

Quote:

I'd really like to see this study of yours that shows marijuana has lasting effects on the brain.  No seriously, show it to me.




actually there is, but there are studies that show there isn't any too


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14397099 - 05/03/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

inherent side-effects from the drug's use, the actual damage is resulting from  excitotoxicity from excessive signal transduction.
like I said, measuring the loss of metabolites and axons in the raphe nuclei is a strong indicator of cause-effect relationship, and we can have a circular argument all you want. the evidence purely suggests causality. if you guys want to play the neuroplasticity
card, fine...but it only works to an extent. abusing any drug can have irreversible consequences, and the same is true for
mdma, even without the "dirty" additives

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OfflineLoveYourLife
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14397165 - 05/03/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:

actually there is, but there are studies that show there isn't any too





I know that already, I said I wanted to see his study from which he is basing his expert opinion.

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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #14397195 - 05/03/11 10:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1196/annals.1432.007/abstract;jsessionid=671FB773DC5A0DC17D8D6ACEB864BD46.d03t03

:lol:


lay off the raver crack, 'k kids?
I guess there needs to be more studies done on E-tards.


--------------------
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: piracetam]
    #14397293 - 05/03/11 10:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
inherent side-effects from the drug's use, the actual damage is resulting from  excitotoxicity from excessive signal transduction.
like I said, measuring the loss of metabolites and axons in the raphe nuclei is a strong indicator of cause-effect relationship, and we can have a circular argument all you want. the evidence purely suggests causality. if you guys want to play the neuroplasticity
card, fine...but it only works to an extent. abusing any drug can have irreversible consequences, and the same is true for
mdma, even without the "dirty" additives




but again, what about the studies contradicting that. how are you so sure that this study is right? or that sleep deprivation is not the cause of the effects?

btw i never even tried ecstasy before so i have no bias

also i find it hard to believe that years after recovery plasticity can't turn a brain back to normal. obviously i could be wrong, but when i read stuff like this

Quote:


woke up after spending 19 years in a minimally conscious state. When scientists scanned his brain combining PET (Positron Emission Tomography) and DTI (Diffusion Tensor Imaging) technologies, they found evidence that Wallis’s brain had “developed new pathways and completely novel anatomical structures to re-establish functional connections, compensating for the brain pathways lost in the accident” (New Scientist, 03/07/2006).




it's hard to believe, especially with an extreme example like above


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

Edited by bigmike7104 (05/03/11 10:35 PM)

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OfflineKonyap


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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14397438 - 05/03/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

certain receptors never recover as much as they could and you're talking about a organ with nothing to do rather then a altered pattern of molecular fusions....

or some shit...

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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: piracetam]
    #14397602 - 05/03/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
theyre testing people that used street ecstasy. dont they understand that street x is impure? theyre using these kinds of studies to decide if its worth the risk to use MDMA therapeutically, but theyre basing data off of people who used impure mdma. IMO this makes a big difference. and even if the difference is minimal, this is not the way they should decide if MDMA is useful in therapy, which I believe it is.





perfect example of a denial-type response

what part of "mdma is neurotoxic" do you not understand? even molly will damage said neurons.
the oxidative damage it imparts is inherent to the molecule itself, not just impurities.




woah hold on bro. no where in my post did I say that MDMA is not neurotoxic. I was just saying that the method here is flawed. theyre scanning peoples brains that have used ecstasy before but theyve also probably used countless other drugs as well. ecstasy is probably the most impure drug on the street imo.

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OfflineSpiderbaby
?
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Re: Ecstasy associated with chronic change in brain function [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14398227 - 05/04/11 03:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
theyre testing people that used street ecstasy. dont they understand that street x is impure? theyre using these kinds of studies to decide if its worth the risk to use MDMA therapeutically, but theyre basing data off of people who used impure mdma. IMO this makes a big difference. and even if the difference is minimal, this is not the way they should decide if MDMA is useful in therapy, which I believe it is.





I worked in a lab specialising in SERT research last year, the mdma we use and the mdma used in these studies is pharmaceutical grade as in >98% pure

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