|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy] 1
#14395717 - 05/03/11 06:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
joemolloy said: We are out there, we have tripped countless times, traveled the whole spectrum of the psychedelic experience, and called bullshit on it.
And yet nevertheless still stick around the community to make elaborate arguments? I was under the impression after something is dismissed, it is to be entirely left alone. A lot of Richard Dawkins' work, for example, would be hot air if not for the existence of his objects of contempt. For not providing growth or understanding, "haters" curiously tend to stick around their piñatas.
Kent is eloquent, surely. He also has some fascinating ideas.
I personally am under the conviction that we should be choking our gurus and idols and burning our bibles; the difference is I don't discriminate on the grounds of materialism and spirituality. That's just a simple dichotomy and polarity to toy around with. I've clocked a few hours on the court myself, and I always come back with ineffable and flabbergasted results that transcend ideology and labels. It's OK not to pigeon-hole everything -- which is what, I believe, the "spiritual" approach allows to happen: it makes room for a humble admission that (at the moment) the biggest implications from our experiences are still mysteries.
--------------------
|
joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: The Whale]
#14395778 - 05/03/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
And yet nevertheless still stick around the community to make elaborate arguments? I was under the impression after something is dismissed, it is to be entirely left alone. A lot of Richard Dawkins' work, for example, would be hot air if not for the existence of his objects of contempt. For not providing growth or understanding, "haters" curiously tend to stick around their piñatas.
I still love draining my nuts with that magical masturbation, I know that I didn't really fuck the girl on the computer screen and that it has no real consequence in my life, but I keep going back. Dismissing certain value doesn't dismiss all value. Psychedelics are fun, pretty colors and all.
Quote:
Kent is eloquent, surely. He also has some fascinating ideas.
I personally am under the conviction that we should be choking our gurus and idols and burning our bibles; the difference is I don't discriminate on the grounds of materialism and spirituality. That's just a simple dichotomy and polarity to toy around with. I've clocked a few hours on the court myself, and I always come back with ineffable and flabbergasted results that transcend ideology and labels. It's OK not to pigeon-hole everything -- which is what, I believe, the "spiritual" approach allows to happen: it makes room for a humble admission that (at the moment) the biggest implications from our experiences are still mysteries.
Cool, I understand where you are coming from. However, I think the spiritual approach to psychedelics is knocking on the door of mental illness or riding the Highway of Weird Motherfucker. I've ridden that road, watched others on that road and think it sucks because after a while you ain't driving anymore. Of course your personal mileage on that road will vary.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
|
The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
#14395854 - 05/03/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
joemolloy said: I've ridden that road, watched others on that road and think it sucks because after a while you ain't driving anymore.
A colorful analogy.
Still, I would say that mental stagnation is typical not of any particular ideology, but of patterned human behavior. A tendency towards dogma occurs even in the kitchen if you believe the marinara sauce, to reach perfection, has to be bought from Fred's on Sunday evening because that's when the tomatoes are best.
As for riding the "Highway of Weird Motherfucker" - I would say Bob down the street who watches Fox News and never deviates from the missionary position is just as weird as a burn out who thinks DMT will save humanity. I'm not resolving everything into relativism. I just think some people will interpret these substances in certain ways, depending on their disposition as a unique individual. Nick Sand wrote about this when he criticized Strassman's interpretations of his patient's consistent encounters with bizarre aliens (presumably due to their role as a patient in a hospital).
Quote:
Psychedelics are fun, pretty colors and all.
Honestly, I sometimes envy fellow trippers who can just get colors and "funny" ideas. I go into it shaking like a dog who knows the bath he's about to receive is going to be slightly too cold, as it always is. I get my ass handed to me on a silver platter and it's all I can do not to rip the curtains off the walls. In other words, the shit isn't fun at all, but I go back for different reasons.
--------------------
|
joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: The Whale]
#14395907 - 05/03/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I agree with you, Whale. I need to have consistent access to consensus reality though, it pays the bills and keeps me happy. Psychedelics made me weird, hell man, inducing delusional states is bound to do that to a person. Some people find value in temporary psychosis, I find it fun and exciting, but dangerous.
I was kidding about the pretty colors, my trips are intensely personal, transcendent, magical and full of shit. No ying without the yang, right?
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
|
The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
#14395942 - 05/03/11 06:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
joemolloy said: I agree with you, Whale. I need to have consistent access to consensus reality though, it pays the bills and keeps me happy. Psychedelics made me weird, hell man, inducing delusional states is bound to do that to a person. Some people find value in temporary psychosis, I find it fun and exciting, but dangerous.
I was kidding about the pretty colors, my trips are intensely personal, transcendent, magical and full of shit. No ying without the yang, right?
Word.
That's why it's best to jump in the pool and then get out, towel off, and join the sober luncheon with the friends and grandparents. Otherwise your fingers start to wrinkle and look all pruney.
--------------------
|
Austrip
P. Sub


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 1,247
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
#14395990 - 05/03/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I consider psychedelics the closest thing to having a REAL religious culture and society that we have discovered at this point in existence. It doesn't have to be religious or spiritual in a traditional sense.
I'm really taking the words straight out of Richard Dawkins mouth and literature, but I look at the psychedelic experience similarly to how Dawkins views gods and deities.
We can all agree that something much bigger, and much more mysterious is at play here, although we still have no idea what it is, what drives it, where it exists, what its made of, ect. But through my use of pyschedelics that much I am sure, that there is some kind of divine force that exists far, FAR beyond my capability of understanding, and the restrictiveness of my 5 senses.
Dawkins calls it "The Einsteinian God" because of Einsteins belief not in a religious godhead, but in a mysterious force he could not begin to understand or explain that drives the mechanisms of the working parts in the Universe.
I think Psychedelics just allow us to lift the veil and peer into something raw and uncreated rather then the formed order that we use to define the universe as human beings. and too me at least, the psychedelic experience is just as real in every sense as my life experience, it was just another way I saw things for a brief moment in time.
--------------------
|
joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: Austrip]
#14396058 - 05/03/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I think Psychedelics just allow us to lift the veil and peer into something raw and uncreated rather then the formed order that we use to define the universe as human beings. and too me at least, the psychedelic experience is just as real in every sense as my life experience, it was just another way I saw things for a brief moment in time.
It's this type of thinking that is so damn seductive and dangerous. Every trip I'd get closer and closer to it, unraveling another layer. It's fucking intoxicating and empowering and intellectually stimulating, right? You'll know the riddle of the sphinx, the meaning of it all. Hell, you can become fucking God! Why stop? You're discovering your true nature, the real you. You're seeing outside of time, the inner workings of time, and everything else there is to experience. Can it be addictive and habit forming? You won't suck dick for it, but that doesn't answer my question.
Start finding the existential answers you seek from psychedelics and then it gets dangerous.
There are no answers or even hints or clues to the questions. Psychedelics just scramble these fucking eggs up and add purple-pink cum to make them taste good. But you just ate your own spooge.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
|
ThePhilosophizer
Musical Gear Head



Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 160
Loc: The Moon
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: Austrip]
#14396085 - 05/03/11 06:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I find it a little funny that many actual dedicated spiritual people hold the same view that psychedelics are not the road to enlightenment and just produce an illusion of a spiritual experience. Honestly, I don't see why it matters. I know these states might be illusory, but I still enjoy that divine feeling, even if its just an illusion. Masturbation is always fun, spiritual masturbation is no different 
As far as insights from these experiences, I'd say it's like any other experience. It's not the experience itself that made a positive difference, it's your interpretation of it and your choice to make a difference in your life. But that has nothing to do with any drug, but everything to do with personal choice. You are capable of changing your life right now without the aid of any drugs. Just because you saw something you've been neglecting because of a drug, doesn't mean that it wasn't 100% your decision to do something about it. But to get caught up in it and assume that all answers and problems will be solved by these substances is madness, in my opinion. If you really want change, you'll make change the moment you figure out what's keeping you back, be it through a drug experience or a car accident that makes you realize that you indeed are mortal and gets you to appreciate life a little more. If you don't want change, doesn't matter how many times you trip and have these 'realizations', you'll remain the same person you were, probably just weirder and spacier.
--------------------
 <<<<<<<<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>> A game without challenges is boring. It is possible to live a happy optimistic life without being in denial about all the shit that goes on all around. You just gotta get up and dance with the fire instead of moping about it. Be thankful for your problems. Without them, your life would be a fucking bore. But don't make it all about the problems. There are magnificent wonders in this world worth living for
Edited by ThePhilosophizer (05/03/11 07:02 PM)
|
Austrip
P. Sub


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 1,247
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
#14396103 - 05/03/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
joemolloy said:
Quote:
I think Psychedelics just allow us to lift the veil and peer into something raw and uncreated rather then the formed order that we use to define the universe as human beings. and too me at least, the psychedelic experience is just as real in every sense as my life experience, it was just another way I saw things for a brief moment in time.
It's this type of thinking that is so damn seductive and dangerous. Every trip I'd get closer and closer to it, unraveling another layer. It's fucking intoxicating and empowering and intellectually stimulating, right? You'll know the riddle of the sphinx, the meaning of it all. Hell, you can become fucking God! Why stop? You're discovering your true nature, the real you. You're seeing outside of time, the inner workings of time, and everything else there is to experience. Can it be addictive and habit forming? You won't suck dick for it, but that doesn't answer my question.
Start finding the existential answers you seek from psychedelics and then it gets dangerous.
There are no answers or even hints or clues to the questions. Psychedelics just scramble these fucking eggs up and add purple-pink cum to make them taste good. But you just ate your own spooge.
I understand exactly what you mean, as I spent most of my teenage years doing just that.
But I feel like I know some of the answer to that riddle now, at least inside myself I do, it's that life is beautiful and should be appreciated, I should be nicer to people just because, and death isn't so bad. That kind of thing. It's definitely not that spinning fractal colors in the sky point to some kind of divine miracle in life, you kind of have to "read between the lines" with the psychedelic experience. Even the answers are wrapped up in another mystery.
I really have found alot of answers, I still have a few questions of course, but theres always another question to ask about the infiniteness of life.
I agree 100% there are always more questions, but for me there was lots of answers as well, albeit personal ones instead of answers that help all of man, but answers none the less.
--------------------
|
Nature Boy
Stranger than most



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 8,246
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 3 days, 15 hours
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: Austrip]
#14396523 - 05/03/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Man, this thread (and a bunch more like it that have cropped up on this forum lately) is just a bunch of psychobabble claptrap wasting people's time and straining "principles" trying to get one or the other maneuvered into a best fit.
When is someone (other than JoeMalloy) going to step up and confess: "I like (insert drug) because it gets me altered in a way that I can choose to interpret as (insert adjective of choice) - Example: "spiritual", "religious" or simply "entertaining".
Before you go off on me (asbestos undies donned) please be advised I have no particular preference for which adjective you choose! Think of the psychedelic state / experience what you will. Its all good. Nobody knows the "right" answer...because there are only opinions and perceptions to deal with, and they are all, by their very nature (just look at the myriad of descriptions of experiences!) SUBJECTIVE.
There is NO objective "truth" to the meaning of any aspect of life, let alone the confusing conundrum of life spent with one foot in consensual reality, and the other foot immersed from time to time in the psychedelic state. Trust me, there is NO DEFINITIVE CONCLUSION to draw on the meaning of EITHER state...not now, and probably not ever. I know its tough to hear and it sucks because we're all "seekers"...but your quest is futile and beyond our ability as mere humans to cognize.
Why not just stop asking "why" and just enjoy your substance of choice for what it does bring you in a measurable way. Example: Smoking pot and sex with my wife ROCKS! Vaporizing DMT is exhilarating and pretty. Alcohol gives me license to pat a pretty young thing on her tight little ass.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
Edited by Nature Boy (05/03/11 08:13 PM)
|
noobieman
Stranger
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 74
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: Austrip]
#14396536 - 05/03/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I can't speak to the "psychedelic spooge of spirituality" argument.
Instead for me it's a matter of insight. If the insight I gain enables my mind to work better in some way, then I've gained something. If the experience provides something that is applicable in the "real" world, then it has utility.
And if I choose to call some of those gains "spiritual," then good for me.
|
Austrip
P. Sub


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 1,247
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: noobieman]
#14396625 - 05/03/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Why not just stop asking "why" and just enjoy your substance of choice for what it does bring you in a measurable way. Example: Smoking pot and sex with my wife ROCKS! Vaporizing DMT is exhilarating and pretty. Alcohol gives me license to pat a pretty young thing on her tight little ass.
Because for some the WHY question of it all is the most confusing, wonderful, exhilarating, psychedelic and most beautiful aspect of it all.
I'm at complete peace knowing that I'll never fully understand the psychedelic experience, but I'm sure as hell going to do my best to try with the short amount of time I have on earth. I have an eternity after death to bask in the lights and fractal patterns, but I only get a short span of time to actually question my existence before I descend back into it.
Quote:
When is someone (other than JoeMalloy) going to step up and confess: "I like (insert drug) because it gets me altered in a way that I can choose to interpret as (insert adjective of choice) - Example: "spiritual", "religious" or simply "entertaining".
I like psychedelics because they put me in touch with something long forgotten, and completely unknown at the same time. I don't think theres an adjective in any language that describes what I get from it.
--------------------
|
noobieman
Stranger
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 74
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: Nature Boy] 1
#14396626 - 05/03/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Nature Boy said: Man, this thread (and a bunch more like it that have cropped up on this forum lately) is just a bunch of psychobabble claptrap wasting people's time and straining "principles" trying to get one or the other maneuvered into a best fit.
When is someone (other than JoeMalloy) going to step up and confess: "I like (insert drug) because it gets me altered in a way that I can choose to interpret as (insert adjective of choice) - Example: "spiritual", "religious" or simply "entertaining".
Some people actually enjoy talking about philosophical things. And if they incorporate psychedelics into that discussion, why does that have to be assaulted?
We are not all the same. Some of us do things for reasons you might not "get." The reductionist argument that everything is a form of masturbation applies to virtually all choice, so it is neither informative nor persuasive. I get off on cherios? Give me a break, I like my preformed organic molecules palatable, yes, but mostly I eat to survive.
Likewise i enjoy hallucinogens but mainly my brain requires new and interesting material. Challenging material. Its part of my identity to seek new experiences, patterns and possibilities. To munch on difficult experiences. It's mental health that drives me. Its not always a fun masturbatory experience, either. But that's who I am. Just as in life I make hard choices for a living because at some point I saw that was healthier. Yes, it felt better...is everything that feels good masturbatory? Only to a pornographic mind.
|
HerbalJunkie
Psycho


Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 305
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: noobieman] 1
#14396726 - 05/03/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I loved the read and agree fully with Kent.
Mind you i love the psychedelic experience, and I've been one of the spiritual beings that thought that psychedelics are the key to it all..
I over-analyzed, went down the rabbit hole, became christ, nailed mysellf on the cross, and now am transcending from the crucifiction.
Whatever man, It only complicated my life, I thought I was using psychedelics very well, not for partying, not for simple 'fun'. Using them to understand, self-empowerment and creativity(which i still do)
But who am I shitting? My problem was that. Taking the psychedelic so seriously, giving it a divine element. Beleiving everything it tells me.
That shit only isolated me from the world, locked me up in my own room and wanting to stay the fuck away from humans, stressed, lost in riddles and delusional, unable to hold a job.
I can't say I didn't have a kick ass time.. or that it didn't motivate me to immerse myself in art more but in the long run it didn't improve my life.
I bullshitted myself in thinking it did. Because psychedelics are the key to flowa powa, peace and happiness and truth innit? Well it wasn't for me, and others.
I've been one of the pro-spiritual psychedelic useage. and it's divine enlightening properties.
But now i feel like a I entered a new level. I feel liberated by de-attaching myself from the 'delusional enlightening aspect' of psychedelics. I just feel more real with myself and others. No hate, I've been there, but now it's time for change cos I sure fuckin' need it!
Being stuck in the psychedelic spiritual loop is a neverending quest, with more questions to every 'answer'.
I can simply use a psychedelic just to watch cartoons and laugh my ass off so hard and have a better time than anyone trying to seek an answer to this joke.
It's just that, I stopped taking it personal and so serious. Man i just want to have a good time and take a break, not ponder things that our silly minds cannot comprehend, which probably there is no need to since it's meaningless.
But we give it meaning! A good recent example of someone taking psychedelics in a divine way is my best friend. Who beleives everything that the mushroom shows him is the ULTIMATE TRUTH. and you will be damned if you disagree. well at a point apperantly, he saw Satan in me, dark, and evil. and in no way I did any evil action to him, I was actually tellin jokes, and making my chick have a giggle with my comedic grumpyness. Well, it only took that for my friend to view me as Satan, and thats all it took to break the friendship..
I begged him to shed the light on my blinded perception, why is he seeing me like that? ''You are satan, cos the mushroom told me so..'' Isn't an intelligent feedback for me, heck if that's what mushrooms do on your brain I wonder why they call them smart drugs, but i won't blame the mushroom, i'll blame the weak mindedness of one.
Anyway this post got too long. It's late, I should pass out.
Goodnight !
|
The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: Nature Boy]
#14396846 - 05/03/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Nature Boy said: Man, this thread (and a bunch more like it that have cropped up on this forum lately) is just a bunch of psychobabble claptrap wasting people's time and straining "principles" trying to get one or the other maneuvered into a best fit.
I would respond to your ideas, but being the butter from which the milk was churned, they're also a "waste of time."
--------------------
|
Cactilove
Controversial Mystic



Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: The Whale]
#14396946 - 05/03/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Man I'm so torn between both sides in the matter and have so much to say I don't even want to touch this shit right now!
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
|
joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: noobieman]
#14398351 - 05/04/11 05:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
We are not all the same. Some of us do things for reasons you might not "get." The reductionist argument that everything is a form of masturbation applies to virtually all choice, so it is neither informative nor persuasive. I get off on cherios? Give me a break, I like my preformed organic molecules palatable, yes, but mostly I eat to survive.
Likewise i enjoy hallucinogens but mainly my brain requires new and interesting material. Challenging material. Its part of my identity to seek new experiences, patterns and possibilities. To munch on difficult experiences. It's mental health that drives me. Its not always a fun masturbatory experience, either. But that's who I am. Just as in life I make hard choices for a living because at some point I saw that was healthier. Yes, it felt better...is everything that feels good masturbatory? Only to a pornographic mind.
That's some simplistic and topical thinking. Dig a little.
The trend with these drugs is that they are good until they stop being fun, until the masturbation turns into something less euphoric. Then spirituality and rest of it goes out the window and its on to drugs that are more consistent with their effects. Think of all the users from the Psychedelic forum who have graduated to the the Other Drugs discussion. Many of them professed the power, uniqueness, and transforming nature of psychedelics - until the masturbatory effects stopped. Many users convince themselves they are taking these drugs "for the right reasons" but I think there are a lot of deluders out there bullshitting themselves about a whole lot more than peace and love maaaaaan. Its masturbation, dressed up in magic, and once that dress comes off, its onto the meaner, nastier drugs.
Fuck me and my presumptious generalization but I suspect (and you know) it hits the mark with damn accurate precision.
Just because we take drugs doesn't mean we have to lie to ourselves.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
|
Austrip
P. Sub


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 1,247
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
#14398373 - 05/04/11 05:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The trend with these drugs is that they are good until they stop being fun, until the masturbation turns into something less euphoric. Then spirituality and rest of it goes out the window and its on to drugs that are more consistent with their effects. Think of all the users from the Psychedelic forum who have graduated to the the Other Drugs discussion. Many of them professed the power, uniqueness, and transforming nature of psychedelics - until the masturbatory effects stopped. Many users convince themselves they are taking these drugs "for the right reasons" but I think there are a lot of deluders out there bullshitting themselves about a whole lot more than peace and love maaaaaan. Its masturbation, dressed up in magic, and once that dress comes off, its onto the meaner, nastier drugs.
not to be jumping in on your response to another member, but I disagree fully.
I used to be a fairly heavy meth user a long time ago, I was an addict in my younger years. I've been through several addictions from pot to MDMA pills to codine to meth to cocaine, and through all of that over nearly a decade of use now, I still consider the psychedelic experience to have all its "magic"
DMT may be more so in this case and what your refering to, since its short acting and people with access to it can use it heavily and repeat dosing again and again. But for me I always put the psychedelic experience on a pedestal. It was like waiting to get drunk on a friday when I was a young teen, but 100X more special. I would wait for months before dosing and be excited about the date I planned it, and since I never pushed it "too hard" on psychedelics I've made it through all my trips with a good outlook on my use.
You said it yourself that your generalizing but I just don't think that that kind of thinking applies to all psychedelic users. Like I said I know a real drug addiction, and psychedelics never led me there, and even through the rough times of that addiction my psychedelic trips where special and all turned into good memories.
Psychedelics never stop being fun for me, I just kind of reach the point where I realize I don't need them anymore. And I eventually come back to them because like we all know, they have the "magic"
--------------------
|
noobieman
Stranger
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 74
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
#14398516 - 05/04/11 06:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
joemolloy said:
That's some simplistic and topical thinking. Dig a little.
Fuck me and my presumptious generalization but I suspect (and you know) it hits the mark with damn accurate precision.
Just because we take drugs doesn't mean we have to lie to ourselves.
I'm glad you're not lying to yourself anymore Joe. And I'm glad your thinking is sharp about your own drug use.
But yes, I can promise you are overgeneralizing. I'm a substance abuse counselor. My whole job is helping people unravel their thinking about what they do and why they do it. And they definitely don't all do it for the same reasons you do, have the same overall experience with substances you do, or stop for the reasons you would. My own integrity on the matter is important if I'm to help anyone, so I take that seriously.
My tendency is to over think and process to the extreme. I would say it is far more simplistic to imagine everyone's use of drugs is like your own, and that your insights apply to everyone.
More than 90% of drug users do not connect their use with spirituality except to say it destroyed theirs. Why would you assume the rare birds getting something from the drugs are just like everyone else? It makes no sense except from within your own experience. Because you had a fucked up ride. Well I can tell you confidently there are some who navigate those waters differently.
How old you are when you start seems to have a lot to do with it. I didn't start with psychedelics until I was 40. I know others who had their shit together before they messed with certain drugs. That's very different from the adolescent entry points, usually.
|
Comcouveflor



Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 353
|
Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: noobieman]
#14398585 - 05/04/11 07:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You folks have immense existential issues - and the thing is, you're yet to encounter the reality to trigger such issues (thus rendered valid). It's apparent when one's vision falls far short of reality, and the ability to discern this is what psychedelics CAN imbue: it doesn't mean you'll see it. Regardless of their use, what you must understand is yourself. This is why a generalized approach to them is entirely silly: the description tells more of the describing entity then of the object of description.
Edited by Comcouveflor (05/04/11 07:07 AM)
|
|