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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,416
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
#14501737 - 05/23/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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it's pointless to debate whose land it rightfully belongs to. everyone's land belonged to someone else at some point. what's done is done and it's time to move forward.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
#14501774 - 05/23/11 10:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was going to respond but honestly, whats the point? It seems like everything this guy states is some variation on the theme of incorrect, incoherent, schizophrenic, clusterfuck babble. Are you on drugs, suffering from the effects of autism, or did the pope, the Jews, your leaders and the U.S. force you to drink the firewater?
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: Therian]
#14502543 - 05/24/11 01:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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millzy said: it's pointless to debate whose land it rightfully belongs to. everyone's land belonged to someone else at some point. what's done is done and it's time to move forward.
Yes, but nobody is arguing the fact that land or other property once belonged to someone else constitutes some wrong. The whole point is whether the present party has a valid claim. Someone who seizes land in an aggressive war does not rightly own the land. Someone who seizes the land in a defensive war or pursuant to the agreement with the prior owner/sovereign, has justly aquired the land.
The whole point is whether Israel should have been formed and whether its formation was illegal. It doesn't really seem like there's any decent argument for either of these based on this thread, though perhaps someone will bring up something or be able to back up some of the previous claims.
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Therian said: I was going to respond but honestly, whats the point? It seems like everything this guy states is some variation on the theme of incorrect, incoherent, schizophrenic, clusterfuck babble. Are you on drugs, suffering from the effects of autism, or did the pope, the Jews, your leaders and the U.S. force you to drink the firewater?
I'm not really sure if your replying to communeart as your post indicates, as I don't understand your refrences, but whomever that was in reply to, you are not permitted to insult posters, such as by asking incredulously if they are on drugs or suffering from some ailment. You can argue his claims are incoherent or whatever, but namecalling and criticisms of the person are generally not allowed and off topic anyways.
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: johnm214]
#14503133 - 05/24/11 06:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Someone who seizes land in an aggressive war does not rightly own the land.
The Ottomans seized the land in an agressive war so you would never consider them to have been a legitimate sovereign?
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Someone who seizes the land in a defensive war or pursuant to the agreement with the prior owner/sovereign, has justly aquired the land.
I dont really think the British driving the Ottomans from the area can be termed a defensive war do you? So going by your definition I cant quite see how the British can be classed as a legitimate sovereign. It seems much more accurate to say that it was merely a case of to the victor the spoils.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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2jew4u
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 1,014
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: GazzBut]
#14503590 - 05/24/11 10:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well the Us took the land from the natives through trickery,war, disease. So does that not make US valid? And We still have Reservations-The Us equivalent to a Concentration camp- The only reason Israel exist, Is that it was given to them after WW2 to punish the Ottomans, for joing the Axis powers,(and we are a christian based nation derived from Judaism)- What should happen IMO is that they let them fight it out, but with out that interference and backing the US lavishes on Israel. Or Israel should just give back the land and make a peace full state, with the Palestinians. Its just such a waste of money, resources(thats the biggie),time. For them to fight over a few square miles of land.
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: 2jew4u]
#14503887 - 05/24/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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you are not permitted to insult posters
I never insulted him, nor did I call him names. I merely ASKED if he was suffering from the EFFECTS of autism. I didn't say he was retarded. But since you brought it up I do feel as though he is suffering from some type of cognitive disorder. Name calling? Didn't a few people call Zappa a racist, and bigoted asshole?
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I remember a south park episode where the focus was on new jersey, an often repeated phrase was : It's a jersey thing.
Their ancestral home is very ancestral, it's also more or less their choice if they did not return up to that point . the messiah has to come and everything. i do not really condemn immigration of Jews, i condemn the suffering of the palestinians. to be honest, i don't really give a fuck about what's going on in israel as much as i used to. it's a key conflict in the world. those on the side of israel are the powerful, and those on the side of palestine are the weak . it is obvious that my solidarity is with the palestinians seeing as how i want to hang the pope plus the majority of our parliamentary leaders for treason.
So once again wtf does Cartman, the pope, parliamentary leaders,.... have to do with Israel? Those on the side of Palestine are weak? How is it that every Arab nation, much of Europe, as well as china weak?
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