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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
    #14498316 - 05/23/11 10:19 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

you supported everyone and anyone who opposed communism. now it's islam. it used to be the nazi . how can you deny being fascistic or an american ultranationalist. at least i am honest about my anti-americanism, i say it outloud that my people will only feel alive,happy,culturally vibrant the day it spits on america as a symbolic gesture of freedom from foreign capital.

How is islam preventing america from being alive,happy,culturally vibrant? if anything america still shines with their culture around the world, and you want more power as always.

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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14498445 - 05/23/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

the un helped create israel, not just america. i think their tactics (israel's) can be heavy handed at times, but i can also understand that they are surrounded by people who are completely hostile towards them and have to protect themselves. ultimately the only way for things to get better is for palestine to handle up on its shit and get rid of the element that is causing israel to react in the way it does.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: millzy]
    #14498492 - 05/23/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
the un helped create israel, not just america. i think their tactics (israel's) can be heavy handed at times, but i can also understand that they are surrounded by people who are completely hostile towards them and have to protect themselves. ultimately the only way for things to get better is for palestine to handle up on its shit and get rid of the element that is causing israel to react in the way it does.




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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14498501 - 05/23/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The UN is also condemning israel all the fucking time. the UN is also condemning cuba's embargo. what does the united states do? it veto every fucking thing. Now it's time someone in america get it why i want ron paul as their president. he understands politics, and politics is about not setting precedents, it's about thinking before you do something because the consequences are going to be there for the next 50 years whatever you do. just like killing bin laden will only stimulates terrorism, but no problem with that since it's nothing but trying to stop russia and china from taking africa and the middle-east. since stability in that region means a true free market where china and russia will truly compete with america instead of having favorable price due to imperialism.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14498518 - 05/23/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
The UN is also condemning israel all the fucking time. the UN is also condemning cuba's embargo. what does the united states do? it veto every fucking thing. Now it's time someone in america get it why i want ron paul as their president. he understands politics, and politics is about not setting precedents, it's about thinking before you do something because the consequences are going to be there for the next 50 years whatever you do. just like killing bin laden will only stimulates terrorism, but no problem with that since it's nothing but trying to stop russia and china from taking africa and the middle-east. since stability in that region means a true free market where china and russia will truly compete with america instead of having favorable price due to imperialism.



The UN is a feckless agglomeration of aggrieved failed states.  How many Muslim nations are there, each with one vote?  50?  They wanted to put Libya as head of the human rights council.  Cuba?  The whole fucking world trades with them except us.  Tough shit. 

Killing ObL stimulates terrorism?  :facepalm:  You do realize that, of those three nations you mentioned, the least imperialist, by far, is the US.


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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #14498534 - 05/23/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The UN, as a feckless agglomeration of aggrieved failed states. Gave the land to israel right? the UN is only good when you like it.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14498573 - 05/23/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
The UN, as a feckless agglomeration of aggrieved failed states. Gave the land to israel right? the UN is only good when you like it.



I don't think it was all that great back then either.  They gave Israel a fucking mess and the Arabs all the resources and almost all the land.  Pay close attention.  THEY GAVE THE ARABS MUCH MORE THAN THEY GAVE ISRAEL!


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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14498870 - 05/23/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

they gave israel 70% of the land of palestine.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14499147 - 05/23/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
they gave israel 70% of the land of palestine.





So what?  What does that have to do with anything?

If you have some argument making Israel bad or illegal due to this, let's hear it.

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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: johnm214]
    #14499299 - 05/23/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I was replying to Zappa saying they gave everything to the arabs, while in reality they gave 70% of the land to the jews. the rational was that jews will immigrate soon. it was refused by the arabs and there was no other negociation. i am not sure but i think jerusalem was completly jewish under that plan, correct me if i am wrong.

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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14499345 - 05/23/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

By the way, i don't get it. how can anyone claim that america is not imperialist. i thought i had a bad memory but how can you claim that 600 billion $$$ per year is a small military budget and they are not arming whoever the fuck they want plus invading other countries as it feels like. there's a war every 10 year and less with america is involved in all of them. name me a war in which america did not at least talkshit the countries into submission or rebellion.

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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: johnm214]
    #14499354 - 05/23/11 02:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

nobody benefits from instability in that region. i also don't see how turning our back on a situation we helped create could possibly be in our best interests either.

and like i said, i also find it difficult to sympathize with a government who seems to only want death and destruction and obstinately refuses israel's right to even exist.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14499502 - 05/23/11 02:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
By the way, i don't get it. how can anyone claim that america is not imperialist. i thought i had a bad memory but how can you claim that 600 billion $$$ per year is a small military budget




Gee, I don't remember claiming that.  Why are you criticizing this position?  What is the relevance?


Quote:

and they are not arming whoever the fuck they want plus invading other countries as it feels like.




Hmm, I don't remember claiming this one either.  Why are you criticiaing this position?  What is the relevance?



Quote:

there's a war every 10 year and less with america is involved in all of them. name me a war in which america did not at least talkshit the countries into submission or rebellion.




What is the relevance here?


You seem to argue against positions you yourself constructed, but without any explanation why your doing so. Is this one of those imperialist threads where at the end we find out that the person arguing country a is imperialist was using some secret definition?

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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: johnm214]
    #14499780 - 05/23/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I asked for your definition, that is the only secret definition here.

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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14499784 - 05/23/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

that plus i'm drunk, so bare with me.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14499789 - 05/23/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
I was replying to Zappa saying they gave everything to the arabs, while in reality they gave 70% of the land to the jews. the rational was that jews will immigrate soon. it was refused by the arabs and there was no other negociation. i am not sure but i think jerusalem was completly jewish under that plan, correct me if i am wrong.



You know what else they did?  They gave 100% of Israel to Isreal.  Look at a fucking map. The freakshow Arabs got almost all of the middle east.  And you are quite wrong about Jerusalem.  What a surprise.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14499793 - 05/23/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
By the way, i don't get it. how can anyone claim that america is not imperialist. i thought i had a bad memory but how can you claim that 600 billion $$$ per year is a small military budget and they are not arming whoever the fuck they want plus invading other countries as it feels like. there's a war every 10 year and less with america is involved in all of them. name me a war in which america did not at least talkshit the countries into submission or rebellion.



You clearly don't know what the word means.


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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14499808 - 05/23/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

i also find it difficult to sympathize with a government who seems to only want death and destruction and obstinately refuses israel's right to even exist.




It is actually wrong that the hamas obstinately refuse israel's legitimacy. Iran is having a tough position on israel and hamas is at least psychologically helped by iran if not by funding of money and arms. But the position are nuanced. they negociate the right of return for palestinians, they want to gain something out of all those people who lost their home and are prevented from going back in.
Quote:


You know what else they did?  They gave 100% of Israel to Isreal.  Look at a fucking map. The freakshow Arabs got almost all of the middle east.  And you are quite wrong about Jerusalem.  What a surprise.




arabs and jews are not equal races. they have different populations. according to some people's morality, human individuals are equal, that is why the arabs are superior in number. Palestine belongs to the palestinians, just like lebanon belongs to the lebanese people. your constant bullshiting about what identity is legitimate and isn't is frankly a joke and probably reveals ignorance about what is a national identity in the first place, nothing but illusions but an illusion that people believe in and thus must be respected.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: communeart]
    #14499965 - 05/23/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
that plus i'm drunk, so bare with me.



Quote:

communeart said:
Quote:

i also find it difficult to sympathize with a government who seems to only want death and destruction and obstinately refuses israel's right to even exist.




It is actually wrong that the hamas obstinately refuse israel's legitimacy. Iran is having a tough position on israel and hamas is at least psychologically helped by iran if not by funding of money and arms. But the position are nuanced. they negociate the right of return for palestinians, they want to gain something out of all those people who lost their home and are prevented from going back in.




It is in the Hamas charter.  There will never be a right to return.  99% of the people who claim it never lived there.
Quote:


Quote:


You know what else they did?  They gave 100% of Israel to Isreal.  Look at a fucking map. The freakshow Arabs got almost all of the middle east.  And you are quite wrong about Jerusalem.  What a surprise.




arabs and jews are not equal races. they have different populations. according to some people's morality, human individuals are equal, that is why the arabs are superior in number. Palestine belongs to the palestinians, just like lebanon belongs to the lebanese people. your constant bullshiting about what identity is legitimate and isn't is frankly a joke and probably reveals ignorance about what is a national identity in the first place, nothing but illusions but an illusion that people believe in and thus must be respected.




The Lebanese people are also Palestinians, are they not?  Many Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians also.  Just fucking stop.  Palestinian is an artificial ethnic group.  They aren't any more Palestinian than the Jews.  You speak of the right of return but condemn the European Jewish and Middle Eastern Jewish migration to their ancestral home?  Even after they were driven out of those places for real and not by choice?


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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Was Israel's founding, its continuation, bad? or What's wrong with Israel? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14501094 - 05/23/11 08:32 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:




It is in the Hamas charter.  There will never be a right to return.  99% of the people who claim it never lived there.



they negociated, the problem with the right of return is that it affects children of those who were evicted from the homes, also that israeli have since taken residence in those same home.
Quote:

The Lebanese people are also Palestinians, are they not?  Many Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians also.  Just fucking stop.  Palestinian is an artificial ethnic group.  They aren't any more Palestinian than the Jews.  You speak of the right of return but condemn the European Jewish and Middle Eastern Jewish migration to their ancestral home?  Even after they were driven out of those places for real and not by choice?



I remember a south park episode where the focus was on new jersey, an often repeated phrase was : It's a jersey thing.

Their ancestral home is very ancestral, it's also more or less their choice if they did not return up to that point . the messiah has to come and everything. i do not really condemn immigration of jews, i condemn the suffering of the palestinians. to be honest, i don't really give a fuck about what's going on in israel as much as i used to. it's a key conflict in the world. those on the side of israel are the powerful, and those on the side of palestine are the weak . it is obvious that my solidarity is with the palestinians seeing as how i want to hang the pope plus the majority of our parliamentary leaders for treason.

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