Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: GazzBut]
    #14398750 - 05/04/11 08:09 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Of course I can see how that could be a problem, as with anything that isn't completely inert: you can have positive and negative effects.

What I can't see is how so many liberal-leaning people who claim to be for free speech and against censorship suddenly turn into censors when "corporations" are brought up.

If you support the first amendment then the issue is allready decided.  It is duplicitious to believe in open, free, debate and discussion and to turn around and want to deprive people of their rights (which, as I said, is what happens with corporate personhood or not, as its inevitably a person who acts for the corporation and who may be interpreted as acting as a person just as easily as they are interpreted as acting for the corporation).

It seems people loose their minds when "corporations" are brought up- half the criticisms don't seem to have anything particularly to do with the buisness model.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: johnm214]
    #14399050 - 05/04/11 09:42 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

> What I can't see is how so many liberal-leaning people who claim to be for free speech and against censorship suddenly turn into censors when "corporations" are brought up.

Most liberals are authoritarian at heart, but are unable to recognize it in their position.  They tend to use the rich as their boogieman to justify their authoritative nature.  It is ironic that they decry the right wing police state as authoritarian while advocating the left wing police state to protect the little man from the big scary rich man.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: Seuss]
    #14399860 - 05/04/11 12:51 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Thank you for bringing us another missive from the ivory towers of perfected thought. Or is it just another round of my dogmas better than your dogma? So hard to tell these days.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: GazzBut]
    #14400082 - 05/04/11 01:51 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Do you know what the word "dogma" means?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14400376 - 05/04/11 02:56 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Sure do.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: GazzBut]
    #14400406 - 05/04/11 03:01 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Well then maybe you can use it correctly next time.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14400492 - 05/04/11 03:17 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Thank you for bringing us another missive from the ivory towers of perfected thought. Or is it just another round of my dogmas better than your dogma? So hard to tell these days.





Well, Seuss will defend his ideas and justify them, though you don't even ask for such before criticizing the manner in which they are conveyed (rather than the substance).  This is a bit different than many others who pop in with conclusory claims and depart without defending them.  Given Seuss is not one of the ones who engages in this silliness, I think your criticisms of some unidentified portion of his style of delivery is dumb.


Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So you have no intention of answering john's questions?




Nah, he's reading way too much into it. I'm just throwing around ideas and seeing what people have to say. I'm more interesting in hearing suggestions on how to better implement such an idea, and the implications growing technology will have on our political culture in general. I don't come to these forums to have a debate or Poidesque line-by-line argument.

John, I appreciate your feedback and I did read what you had to say. I think our disagreement may lie in overall ideology and I'm sure we could argue for days. :grin:





I don't know of a better way to debate ideas asides from using the actual text you provide- poidesque or not.  Any alternative involves my interpretation without providing the reader and convieniant evidence of its applicability- something quoted text does nicely.

My objections are not to details, but rather the entire idea- unfinished though it may be.  You simultaneously argue for increased democracy while dismissing the validity and appropriatness of entire groups of the electorate- old, ignorant, uninvolved, et cet.  This seems a fundamental problem that remains unsolved.  Democracy is somewhat dangerous for the very reasons you seem to consider in dismissing particular voting blocks' opinions, but you nevertheless claim to favor greater democratic qualities to the US system- a somewhat quizzical stance.

A primary concern I have is the effect of requiring or allowing participation in official matters that requires particular technical skills and, more importantly, physical infrastructure.  Those who cannot afford such or who have differing types of these items would be excluded from this democratic system, it seems.  This seems a bit Jim Crow-like: democracy for everyone, except....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: johnm214]
    #14400639 - 05/04/11 03:43 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
A primary concern I have is the effect of requiring or allowing participation in official matters that requires particular technical skills and, more importantly, physical infrastructure.  Those who cannot afford such or who have differing types of these items would be excluded from this democratic system, it seems.  This seems a bit Jim Crow-like: democracy for everyone, except....




Indeed. It wouldn't work at the moment, but I suspect at some point in the future every individual will have regular access to a computer and the internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14403350 - 05/05/11 01:27 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

You dont need to have direct personal access to the internet as some form of community centre could be setup where people without their own personal access could go to vote.

As for the requirement of technical skills, in our current systems there are no specific levels of skill / knowledge required to become a politician so you can end up with people like George W. and Sarah Palin holding the reins of power which is surely of far greater concern?


--------------------
Always Smi2le

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: TRUE Democracy in the 21st Century and the ePolitician [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14403352 - 05/05/11 01:28 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Well then maybe you can use it correctly next time.




As I used it correctly this time I would say the chances are fairly high that I will use it correctly next time Zap.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Earth as a weapon in 21st Century of Wars
( 1 2 all )
chodamunky 2,489 22 01/04/04 04:49 PM
by Baby_Hitler
* Open Democracy
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
GazzBut 5,042 88 07/28/04 02:04 AM
by GazzBut
* does democracy actually work? Tasty_Smurf_House 1,513 19 11/29/04 06:05 AM
by GazzBut
* Democracy Is Not Freedom
( 1 2 all )
Ancalagon 2,999 27 02/09/05 08:31 PM
by RandalFlagg
* Democracy newuser1492 771 11 04/28/04 06:18 PM
by Crobih
* True American newuser1492 674 14 05/30/04 07:09 AM
by vampirism
* Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) Northernsoul 1,415 13 08/15/04 08:43 PM
by Divided_Sky
* Choiceless Democracy Psilocybeingzz 689 4 07/13/03 07:14 PM
by Psilocybeingzz

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,303 topic views. 2 members, 6 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.