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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14378030 - 04/30/11 02:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I looked up Myth of Mental Illness in Wiki, here is an excerpt:

"The Myth Of Mental Illness: Foundations of a Theory of Personal Conduct is a controversial book by Thomas Szasz and published in 1961. It is highly influential in the anti-psychiatry movement. In it, Szasz argues that mental illness is a social construct created by doctors, and the term can only be used as a metaphor given that an illness must be an objectively demonstrable biological pathology, whereas psychiatric disorders meet none of these criteria. Szasz says that what psychiatrists label mental illness is in fact nothing more than a deviation from the consensus reality or common morality.

He states that mental illness, madness and even many crimes are created or defined by cultural controls, morals and "real world" views of big science, religion and government, similar to heretics, pagans, and sinners before the industrial revolution."

I think that true mental illness is actually very rare.  But there is so much money to be made by using this label.  It's funny how "big science" and "religion" can agree with each other when it comes to controlling people.

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14378104 - 04/30/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well if you wake up one day hearing voices in your head, i'd like to ask you if you think its still a myth. Might be psychosomatic or not, but psychosis is not something to be fucked with, I lost 2 friends to it and it looks like much more then a myth to me.


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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14378290 - 04/30/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No I am not saying hearing voices doesn't exist, or feeling desperately sad doesn't exist, or seeing terrifying visions doesn't exist, but that these manifestations of dis-ease are not biological diseases as the mental illness mythic model makes out.

Of course this is not easy to see because it is the central controlling myth. its not something someone can say and you can say yes or no; it is all tied up with the process of the worldview you are in, with the system. It is as close as the religion was in the previous paradigm--all pervasive. Taken for granted as reality.

EVERYTHING is driven by this myth. You are fucked over by 'education' by parents, peers, mass media, and the pressure to be 'normal' in an insane world.

When i was trying to get through to that moderator from the Lycauem who really thought he was intelligence personified, he couldn't dig when I mentioned that the WORLD was fukin insane.

Edited by zzripz (04/30/11 03:41 PM)

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14378640 - 04/30/11 05:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

See, I am more interested at the moment in --how do you see, feel reality?

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14381161 - 05/01/11 03:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What is real? How do you define 'real'? :blueorred:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14381279 - 05/01/11 04:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

foliocb said:
What is real? How do you define 'real'? :blueorred:




You showing a pic from The Matrix? Are YOU plugged in? Not yet? Right.

Now are you prepared to admit that you may be affected by propaganda?

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14382643 - 05/01/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Something tells me you took that post seriously and didn't know what I was quoting. You should go watch the movie :ass:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14383172 - 05/01/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you just have no respect really do you?

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14383397 - 05/01/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



:glittershitz:

Keep in mind that just about everyone who offered their healthy and positive take in this thread was bashed by you every time, even though your thread implies a question from the start. Soemthing tells me you have a bloated ego and only made this thread for your own amusement and to regurgitate crap you read on the internets... which is what im doing back :ahahaha:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14383498 - 05/01/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

achhhhhgk I seen The Matrix before you was a twinkle kiddio

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14383573 - 05/01/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

doesn't look like you got the message :shrug:

guess age really is just a number:goodluck:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14383715 - 05/01/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you-are-a-troll.

go a-way. before i do somehum i oughnta

Edited by zzripz (05/01/11 05:03 PM)

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14383908 - 05/01/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:banhamster:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #14386245 - 05/02/11 12:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
No I am not saying hearing voices doesn't exist, or feeling desperately sad doesn't exist, or seeing terrifying visions doesn't exist, but that these manifestations of dis-ease are not biological diseases as the mental illness mythic model makes out.




Actually there is a lot of evidence pointing towards some forms of schizophrenia being helped by Vitamin B supplements and similarly depression with Vitamin D; if you have an extremely unhealthy diet and are deficient in needed brain nutrients then it makes sense that you would start to experience detrimental forms of consciousness.  The body and the mind are inextricably connected: curing the one significantly helps the process of curing the other.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: deCypher]
    #14386715 - 05/02/11 02:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yes nutrition of course is VERY important, and yet some rich git with a very expensive diet can still be insane! So thers a danger to still be caught up in the mental illness myth by claiming food is the 'treatment'--feel me. it goes far deeper. it calls into question the whole paradigm we are in.

It is like saying to a Native American who you have incarcerated into a reservation, taking away all their meaning of life. Robbed them of their land community and indedendence and spirituality and then recommend they get their daily requirement of vitamin D!!

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14386864 - 05/02/11 04:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:lolwut:


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14386905 - 05/02/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Psychedelics play with your vision, what you see, how you see it, what you consider real etc so they have the potential to reveal maya to you, but not direct Self realization.


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Edited by Chronic7 (05/02/11 05:46 AM)

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: Chronic7]
    #14388442 - 05/02/11 12:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Psychedelics play with your vision, what you see, how you see it, what you consider real etc so they have the potential to reveal maya to you, but not direct Self realization.




reveal "maya" to you? You mean the Eastern idea that reality is illusion?
So if I may rephrase your statement, you mean that psychedelic experience doesn't show you what is direct reality, but illusory? Got you right?

Well I definately do not agree with that.In my personal experience I feel that I am looking and feeling V E R Y directly. When I write about psychedelic experience I use that term 'direct/directly' a lot.

This means I am aware that in ordinary life we are caught up an illusory reality which is made from propaganda we are indoctrinated in. We are forced to go to school from very young , and that has an effect. So does all the mass media we are affected by, and also parental pressure and peer pressure, the mental illness myth, 'scientism', religion, philosophy, and that we end up instilling this propaganda.
So, when we take the entheogen all of that can be immediately blown away, and/or in flux, and all of a sudden you start seeing reality in deeper direct ways. So ie the politician you had trusted now looks ridiculous and you start giggling at his BS. Stuff like that.

The Eastern mysticism I have problems with. I recommend a book that exposes it called The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power

Of course 'illusion' is not the ONLY translation of that term,'maya'. Alan Watts would often translate it to mean 'play' and 'magic'. I prefer those. I think reality is VERY playful and magical. But once you start calling reality illusion you dissociate yourself from this mystery. That is what most of the new Age is about--looking with disdain at reality as though it is a trap, and a 3D illusion. This is because the New Age is very influenced by Eastern philosophy and occultism!

Edited by zzripz (05/02/11 12:54 PM)

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14388992 - 05/02/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

we already know you dont agree with anyone else on this subject  :rebeccablack:


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Offlineivander
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14389167 - 05/02/11 03:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

foliocb, might I ask.. why do you care?

Quote:

zzripz said:The Eastern mysticism I have problems with. I recommend a book that exposes it called The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power

Of course 'illusion' is not the ONLY translation of that term,'maya'. Alan Watts would often translate it to mean 'play' and 'magic'. I prefer those. I think reality is VERY playful and magical.
But once you start calling reality illusion you dissociate yourself from this mystery. That is what most of the new Age is about--looking with disdain at reality as though it is a trap, and a 3D illusion. This is because the New Age is very influenced by Eastern philosophy and occultism!



This is your opinion perhaps, but I would argue that many people would not share it with you. Accepting reality as illusion is not dissociation from it, rather a dissociation of ego. Which is construct of this illusion, and that act is just defensive mechanism at work. IMO. When one is asking questions about himself or about other selves, its important first to know who is the self? Is it auto pilot ego, or something else?
Also when you look at psychedelic experiences, you can apply many filters to look upon it. And every other will give you different perspective. And that does not mean, that one is more or less truthful then another.


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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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