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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: Sunny]
    #14409784 - 05/06/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If we were all consciousnesses being simulated by an AI, though, it wouldn't matter if the technology appears to exist today or not. If it could potentially happen, ever, at any point in time, then we could be in a simulation right now, thinking we're in the year 2011.

Haven't you ever seen The Matrix? :shrug:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: NetDiver] * 1
    #14409926 - 05/06/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Keanu Reeves total inability to act actually worked for him in 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'.

Scene 1: Director - OK, Keanu, give a blank, emotionless stare. Very good!

Scene 2: Director - OK, Keanu, walk like a a constipated automoton. Awesome!

...

Scene 86: Director - OK, Keanu, now pretend for a millisecond like you have some flicker of empathy, then go back to your default blank, emotionless stare.

Director: That's a wrap!


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InvisibleSunny
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: NetDiver]
    #14410486 - 05/06/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
If we were all consciousnesses being simulated by an AI, though, it wouldn't matter if the technology appears to exist today or not. If it could potentially happen, ever, at any point in time, then we could be in a simulation right now, thinking we're in the year 2011.

Haven't you ever seen The Matrix? :shrug:




:lol: :yesnod:

The obvious flaw in this argument is that no-one can prove or disprove the hypothesis. Just like God! Now we've crossed the line into mysticism...


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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: Sunny]
    #14410601 - 05/06/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't say that I agree with the OP's premise or anything, just that your argument was not a valid refutation.


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InvisibleSunny
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: NetDiver] * 1
    #14411153 - 05/06/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I want to see the science behind the premise of OP's argument. That's all I was getting at.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: Sunny]
    #14411888 - 05/06/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

In that case, you're out of luck... it's completely a



argument.


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OfflineForever White Belt
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: deCypher]
    #14412094 - 05/06/11 07:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I just want to start this by saying I just smoked a good bong load and was really bored then I started reading this thread... This place is amazing!! IMO if everyone on this thread got together and wrote a book it would be awesome!!! Forget The Physics of Immortality (even though I am sure it is a great read)

I have a question

Do we have to die before we can access this AI afterlife?? Can you just plug in like in the movie eXistenZ? Because if you could I bet alot of people would just kill themselves.

I think that creates a bigger problem than anything else... Kind of like whats the point of anything?

Also lets also assume that their is a real God and now this AI would it be better? I mean that would kind of suck to choose the AI when you die and its like that Video Game you spent 60 bux on and you want your money back!

I really think this topic is extremely interesting for a few reasons.

I have been having a strange time of trying to integrate into my worldview the idea that there is technology in the spirit realm. Like in the book DMT the Spirit molecule and Supernatural also in some of the trip reports found here and Deoxy...

Do we make the "Heaven" or does the AI? Because I think the Goverment would be the first to make something like this illegal, then would make it so only they could use it or make it criminal for us to possess. Just like psychedelics. Either that or it would have to be strictly regulated because of rapists and criminals will always be able to find a way to corrupt a system. I mean they are already like trojan and backdoor virus.

The image of this computer locked in a room because its become dangerous reminds me of the ark of the covenant inside the holy of holies for some reason...


want to add so much but dogs gotta go outside! Either way I think Video Games are the best thing since drugs and the idea of Virtual Reality video game has been a dream since I was a kid!!

Virtual Reality MORTAL KOMBAT FTW!!!


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The Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.
      J. B. S. Haldane

The quest of the absolute leads into the four-dimensional world.
Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington


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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: Forever White Belt]
    #14413747 - 05/07/11 03:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's all virtual reality... close your eyes and look around maannn :bigblunt: lol


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14417593 - 05/08/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

reincarnation...true as fuck :pipesmoke::bongload:

its cause consciousness is the fundamental reality, not matter.  Even though they are ultimately the same thing, there's a definite hierarchy with consciousness preceding matter. This is just taking standard view of the world and flipping it on its ear.  Most people assume we evolved out of matter and consciousness formed from non conscious particles.  I guess, in time, this is true.  But its so obvious that there is a higher timeless reality, this can be experienced. It's the space everything happens in, from farts to euclidean geometry.


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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: deCypher]
    #14418859 - 05/08/11 10:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There is nothing created and composite that does not eventually cease to be. It may go on for a long time but would eventually end because of changing circumstances and conditions.

I don't believe a never-ending something.

But apart from that is does sound possible, unlikely but plausible.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: Ahimsa]
    #14418961 - 05/08/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

maybe not completely eternal as any sort of individual, but a particular individual stream might go on for very long indeed.


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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: g00ru]
    #14419137 - 05/08/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Even though they are ultimately the same thing



I agree, but then you contradict yourself by saying:

Quote:

its cause consciousness is the fundamental reality, not matter... there's a definite hierarchy with consciousness preceding matter.



If they're the same thing, neither one came first or preceded the other. It's simply a cyclical co-dependence.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: NetDiver]
    #14420639 - 05/08/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

okay fair enough, but its like water which can exist in vapor, water, or ice.  They're all the same substance, but in general i'd say vapor precedes ice, just intuitively.  Intergalactic gases had to come together and form planets. Same thing...consciousness/experience comes together to form matter.


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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: g00ru]
    #14420703 - 05/08/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

They're all the same substance




No they're not.  They are different substances with vastly different properties.  That is why we have different words to distinguish them from each other.


Edited by DieCommie (05/08/11 06:00 PM)


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14421124 - 05/08/11 06:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

they're all h2o...yeah, that's my position versus samurai drifter...he's saying the unity of our experience implies that my dualities are absurd...i'm saying they are diff thangs, relatively at least


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: g00ru]
    #14421145 - 05/08/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

And all matter is protons, neutrons and electrons.  That doesnt make all matter the same substance.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14421225 - 05/08/11 07:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

well, it's not the same physical substance but it's all the same insofar as it's all being.  sorry for my mystical utterance.


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Offline4896744
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: g00ru]
    #14421566 - 05/08/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
well, it's not the same physical substance but it's all the same insofar as it's all being.  sorry for my mystical utterance.




We don't take kindly to your folk around here...
:studmuffin:


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14422252 - 05/08/11 10:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
And all matter is protons, neutrons and electrons. That doesnt make all matter the same substance.



In what sense are you using the word "substance?" Because I think that whether or not all matter is the "same substance" depends entirely on how you choose to define that word.


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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: The Afterlife... a possibility for reductionistic materialists? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14427823 - 05/10/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
And all matter is protons, neutrons and electrons.  That doesnt make all matter the same substance.




Nah, protons and neutrons are made of quarks, and WIMPS are none of the above.

We really don't know the true nature of matter, it very well could all be the "substance".
String theory suggests all particles are points on a string, so I guess you could call these strings the substance.


And as far as consciousness preceding matter, doubt it. IMO the properties of matter and forces simply allow for
consciousness to occur, and consciousness is merely the perception of matter and forces interacting with our senses.


Edited by mushiepussy (05/10/11 01:14 AM)


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