|
mongo lloyd
Lone Free Ranger



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 9,351
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 days, 15 hours
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: AntiEverything]
#14387342 - 05/02/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DeadHearts said: That photo is so obviously fake its not even funny.
What photo is that?
Quote:
AntiEverything said:
Quote:
mongo lloyd said: Usama Bin Laden was NOT wanted by the FBI in connection to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Quote:
Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.
Source: http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten
I'm fairly certain those videos in which he took credit for the attack were released something like 3 years after they happened.
It would have been very interesting to see him in court, and see what evidence they had against him. Especially considering that he wasn't involved in 9/11. I'm guessing that there was no firefight, and he was killed outright, so there would be no trial.
touche
That's interesting isn't it? He obviously wasn't wanted for those crimes in that quote, but more likely to destabilise Al Qaeda activity in the region, making US activity easier.
--------------------
|
Kada
Asha'man


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,394
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: AntiEverything] 3
#14387346 - 05/02/11 08:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Death should never be celebrated, even if it is felt rightly deserved. -Me
Good and evil are in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of eyes in this world. America has killed many many innocent people in the middle east. We poisoned the earth they live on with weapons of mass destruction in the form of Depleted Uranium (DU). DU is radioactive material used to harden the tips of bullets and armor-piercing shells. The ordinance can then cut through metals including tanks. It also disintegrates on contact, spreading radioactive particles throughout the atmosphere. Soldiers and civilians inhale the particles; this is one suspected cause of "Gulf War Syndrome." In other words, it is very much like a "dirty bomb." The U.S. used 300 tons of DU in 1991, and used it again in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. This type of radiation never goes away and will kill indiscriminately. And DU dust is everywhere.
A minimum of 500 or 600 tons now litter Afghanistan, and several times that amount are spread across Iraq. In terms of global atmospheric pollution, we've already released the equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse. DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe or touch it; the substance also alters one's genetic code. Thus, birth defects are way up in Afghanistan since the invasion: children "born with no eyes, no limbs, tumors protruding from their mouths ...deformed genitalia," according to the tribunal report. This ghastly toll on the unborn - on the future - has led investigators to coin the term "silent genocide" to describe the effects of this horrific weapon. We knew this when we used them.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5941.htm
No doubt he was a bad guy and needed to be put down. But I won't celebrated it like I see people on TV doing. That's just not right to me. Were all viciously killing each other with enough justification and religious fervor on both sides that were all going to end up dead if it continues. Thus the reason I don't celebrate. I congratulate for stopping him. He was definitely mad and more people would die with out his death. Celebrate the lives saved by killing him, but his death is just as sad as the next in the grand scheme of things.
I just don't like seeing people happy over death. He felt justified in killing people because of what was done to him. Now we all are feeling justified in killing him for what he did to us. It gives me a massive migraine just thinking about it. We will continue on with this cycle because we celebrate death, destruction and revenge. Yes over riches and religion. Bah I'm sorry if I'm ranting. I just see past all the media crap. People don't want to kill us because we have freedoms and good lives, people want to kill us because we have done harm to them. We want to kill them for harming us. Were all killing the shit out of each other and good men die or worse turn into better killers.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
|
Mad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: mongo lloyd]
#14387369 - 05/02/11 08:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mongo lloyd said:
Quote:
DeadHearts said: That photo is so obviously fake its not even funny.
What photo is that?
http://www.redditpics.com/osama-picture-photoshopped,92590/
|
DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Mad_Larkin]
#14387381 - 05/02/11 08:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:
mongo lloyd said:
Quote:
DeadHearts said: That photo is so obviously fake its not even funny.
What photo is that?
http://www.redditpics.com/osama-picture-photoshopped,92590/
One of the worst displays of photoshop you can encounter lol.
|
AntiEverything
im not a doctor



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 6,003
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Kada]
#14387383 - 05/02/11 08:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kada said: Death should never be celebrated, even if it is felt rightly deserved. -Me
Good and evil are in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of eyes in this world. America has killed many many innocent people in the middle east. We poisoned the earth they live on with weapons of mass destruction in the form of Depleted Uranium (DU). DU is radioactive material used to harden the tips of bullets and armor-piercing shells. The ordinance can then cut through metals including tanks. It also disintegrates on contact, spreading radioactive particles throughout the atmosphere. Soldiers and civilians inhale the particles; this is one suspected cause of "Gulf War Syndrome." In other words, it is very much like a "dirty bomb." The U.S. used 300 tons of DU in 1991, and used it again in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. This type of radiation never goes away and will kill indiscriminately. And DU dust is everywhere.
A minimum of 500 or 600 tons now litter Afghanistan, and several times that amount are spread across Iraq. In terms of global atmospheric pollution, we've already released the equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse. DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe or touch it; the substance also alters one's genetic code. Thus, birth defects are way up in Afghanistan since the invasion: children "born with no eyes, no limbs, tumors protruding from their mouths ...deformed genitalia," according to the tribunal report. This ghastly toll on the unborn - on the future - has led investigators to coin the term "silent genocide" to describe the effects of this horrific weapon. We knew this when we used them.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5941.htm
No doubt he was a bad guy and needed to be put down. But I won't celebrated it like I see people on TV doing. That's just not right to me. Were all viciously killing each other with enough justification and religious fervor on both sides that were all going to end up dead if it continues. Thus the reason I don't celebrate. I congratulate for stopping him. He was definitely mad and more people would die with out his death. Celebrate the lives saved by killing him, but his death is just as sad as the next in the grand scheme of things.
I just don't like seeing people happy over death. He felt justified in killing people because of what was done to him. Now we all are feeling justified in killing him for what he did to us. It gives me a massive migraine just thinking about it. We will continue on with this cycle because we celebrate death, destruction and revenge. Yes over riches and religion. Bah I'm sorry if I'm ranting. I just see past all the media crap. People don't want to kill us because we have freedoms and good lives, people want to kill us because we have done harm to them. We want to kill them for harming us. Were all killing the shit out of each other and good men die or worse turn into better killers.
naw man i didn't think that was a rant at all. very well thought out and informative.
and yes mongo-lloyd that is extremely interesting. i think you persuaded me into thinking that it really should have been a trial.
-------------------- You are at once both the quiet and the confusion of my heart. -Franz Kafka
|
Mad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: DeadHearts]
#14387396 - 05/02/11 08:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DeadHearts said:
Quote:
Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:
mongo lloyd said:
Quote:
DeadHearts said: That photo is so obviously fake its not even funny.
What photo is that?
http://www.redditpics.com/osama-picture-photoshopped,92590/
One of the worst displays of photoshop you can encounter lol.
And yet it still got air time by news agencies, and people believed it was real.
|
unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Kada] 1
#14387398 - 05/02/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kada said: Death should never be celebrated, even if it is felt rightly deserved. -Me
Yeah everyone in front of the WH last night just made all of us look like assholes to the entire world....again. Plus people have no idea what type of impact that's going to have on peacekeepers, troops, and even just plain medical volunteers all over the middle east. I guarantee you shit hits the fan even harder over there after this.
|
mongo lloyd
Lone Free Ranger



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 9,351
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 days, 15 hours
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: AntiEverything]
#14387399 - 05/02/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:
mongo lloyd said:
Quote:
DeadHearts said: That photo is so obviously fake its not even funny.
What photo is that?
http://www.redditpics.com/osama-picture-photoshopped,92590/
Gross. And blatently faked.
Quote:
AntiEverything said: and yes mongo-lloyd that is extremely interesting. i think you persuaded me into thinking that it really should have been a trial.
Not that I sympathise with terrorists, I just sympathise with the truth
--------------------
|
unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Mad_Larkin]
#14387403 - 05/02/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mad_Larkin said:

|
DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: unam sanctum]
#14387404 - 05/02/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Im really happy that most of us are finding common ground on this subject.
Its really important.
|
Tri High
Whigro


Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Irishdrunk]
#14387410 - 05/02/11 08:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
|
Lennyk
D-O-L-E Dole


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Kada]
#14387454 - 05/02/11 08:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kada said: Death should never be celebrated, even if it is felt rightly deserved. -Me
Good and evil are in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of eyes in this world. America has killed many many innocent people in the middle east. We poisoned the earth they live on with weapons of mass destruction in the form of Depleted Uranium (DU). DU is radioactive material used to harden the tips of bullets and armor-piercing shells. The ordinance can then cut through metals including tanks. It also disintegrates on contact, spreading radioactive particles throughout the atmosphere. Soldiers and civilians inhale the particles; this is one suspected cause of "Gulf War Syndrome." In other words, it is very much like a "dirty bomb." The U.S. used 300 tons of DU in 1991, and used it again in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. This type of radiation never goes away and will kill indiscriminately. And DU dust is everywhere.
A minimum of 500 or 600 tons now litter Afghanistan, and several times that amount are spread across Iraq. In terms of global atmospheric pollution, we've already released the equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse. DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe or touch it; the substance also alters one's genetic code. Thus, birth defects are way up in Afghanistan since the invasion: children "born with no eyes, no limbs, tumors protruding from their mouths ...deformed genitalia," according to the tribunal report. This ghastly toll on the unborn - on the future - has led investigators to coin the term "silent genocide" to describe the effects of this horrific weapon. We knew this when we used them.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5941.htm
No doubt he was a bad guy and needed to be put down. But I won't celebrated it like I see people on TV doing. That's just not right to me. Were all viciously killing each other with enough justification and religious fervor on both sides that were all going to end up dead if it continues. Thus the reason I don't celebrate. I congratulate for stopping him. He was definitely mad and more people would die with out his death. Celebrate the lives saved by killing him, but his death is just as sad as the next in the grand scheme of things.
I just don't like seeing people happy over death. He felt justified in killing people because of what was done to him. Now we all are feeling justified in killing him for what he did to us. It gives me a massive migraine just thinking about it. We will continue on with this cycle because we celebrate death, destruction and revenge. Yes over riches and religion. Bah I'm sorry if I'm ranting. I just see past all the media crap. People don't want to kill us because we have freedoms and good lives, people want to kill us because we have done harm to them. We want to kill them for harming us. Were all killing the shit out of each other and good men die or worse turn into better killers.
People would probably be either further with their desires for revenge, or such a desire would be eliminated if the war pains could be seen through their very own eyes. Sad how many do not even want this war, and those that do or stand on the fence I question their humanity.
-------------------- Stealth Lighting Cubensis benefits beyond cluster headaches Mush Extract! (You can even use Vinegar!) Flame your needle in style with a sexy mini butane torch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What happens in the Romper Room, stays in the Romper Room. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All posts are written by the sex deprived helper monkey Curious George.
|
AntiEverything
im not a doctor



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 6,003
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Lennyk]
#14387480 - 05/02/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
he started a firefight with the US troops supposedly. no trial was attainable. that's why they killed him outright. im kind of skeptical about the lack of body or pictures though, you'd think they would be all over that. there is a video of saddams hanging FFS. there should be beacoup pictures of osama all over the net.
there should have been a trial though, to clear up all the controversy about everything....it delegitimizes not only killing him but the entire operation when we kill him in the night and dump his body out at sea, gangster style
-------------------- You are at once both the quiet and the confusion of my heart. -Franz Kafka
|
iLuvAF
Dont take me seriously!!


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 514
Loc: FL
Last seen: 12 years, 4 days
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Lennyk]
#14387482 - 05/02/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|

YAY!
-------------------- My first attempt at a SUCCESSFUL grow! ------- Total prints donated: 1 Please Donate! -------- Looking for PE prints! I have forever and 4$ stamps to trade! me!
|
mongo lloyd
Lone Free Ranger



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 9,351
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 days, 15 hours
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: iLuvAF] 2
#14387483 - 05/02/11 08:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
If he actually did get killed last night, whoever fired the shot mustve got some serious XP. That shit would level you up to infinity.
--------------------
|
AntiEverything
im not a doctor



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 6,003
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Lennyk]
#14387484 - 05/02/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Lennyk said:
Quote:
Kada said: Death should never be celebrated, even if it is felt rightly deserved. -Me
Good and evil are in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of eyes in this world. America has killed many many innocent people in the middle east. We poisoned the earth they live on with weapons of mass destruction in the form of Depleted Uranium (DU). DU is radioactive material used to harden the tips of bullets and armor-piercing shells. The ordinance can then cut through metals including tanks. It also disintegrates on contact, spreading radioactive particles throughout the atmosphere. Soldiers and civilians inhale the particles; this is one suspected cause of "Gulf War Syndrome." In other words, it is very much like a "dirty bomb." The U.S. used 300 tons of DU in 1991, and used it again in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. This type of radiation never goes away and will kill indiscriminately. And DU dust is everywhere.
A minimum of 500 or 600 tons now litter Afghanistan, and several times that amount are spread across Iraq. In terms of global atmospheric pollution, we've already released the equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse. DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe or touch it; the substance also alters one's genetic code. Thus, birth defects are way up in Afghanistan since the invasion: children "born with no eyes, no limbs, tumors protruding from their mouths ...deformed genitalia," according to the tribunal report. This ghastly toll on the unborn - on the future - has led investigators to coin the term "silent genocide" to describe the effects of this horrific weapon. We knew this when we used them.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5941.htm
No doubt he was a bad guy and needed to be put down. But I won't celebrated it like I see people on TV doing. That's just not right to me. Were all viciously killing each other with enough justification and religious fervor on both sides that were all going to end up dead if it continues. Thus the reason I don't celebrate. I congratulate for stopping him. He was definitely mad and more people would die with out his death. Celebrate the lives saved by killing him, but his death is just as sad as the next in the grand scheme of things.
I just don't like seeing people happy over death. He felt justified in killing people because of what was done to him. Now we all are feeling justified in killing him for what he did to us. It gives me a massive migraine just thinking about it. We will continue on with this cycle because we celebrate death, destruction and revenge. Yes over riches and religion. Bah I'm sorry if I'm ranting. I just see past all the media crap. People don't want to kill us because we have freedoms and good lives, people want to kill us because we have done harm to them. We want to kill them for harming us. Were all killing the shit out of each other and good men die or worse turn into better killers.
People would probably be either further with their desires for revenge, or such a desire would be eliminated if the war pains could be seen through their very own eyes. Sad how many do not even want this war, and those that do or stand on the fence I question their humanity.
i dont support the "war on terror" but i support the overthrow of tyrannical theocratic rule or muslim law
-------------------- You are at once both the quiet and the confusion of my heart. -Franz Kafka
|
I AM SWIM
doin' thangs



Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 9,999
Loc: Feels Changsta Man
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: Kada]
#14387486 - 05/02/11 08:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kada said: Death should never be celebrated, even if it is felt rightly deserved. -Me
Good and evil are in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of eyes in this world. America has killed many many innocent people in the middle east. We poisoned the earth they live on with weapons of mass destruction in the form of Depleted Uranium (DU). DU is radioactive material used to harden the tips of bullets and armor-piercing shells. The ordinance can then cut through metals including tanks. It also disintegrates on contact, spreading radioactive particles throughout the atmosphere. Soldiers and civilians inhale the particles; this is one suspected cause of "Gulf War Syndrome." In other words, it is very much like a "dirty bomb." The U.S. used 300 tons of DU in 1991, and used it again in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. This type of radiation never goes away and will kill indiscriminately. And DU dust is everywhere.
A minimum of 500 or 600 tons now litter Afghanistan, and several times that amount are spread across Iraq. In terms of global atmospheric pollution, we've already released the equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse. DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe or touch it; the substance also alters one's genetic code. Thus, birth defects are way up in Afghanistan since the invasion: children "born with no eyes, no limbs, tumors protruding from their mouths ...deformed genitalia," according to the tribunal report. This ghastly toll on the unborn - on the future - has led investigators to coin the term "silent genocide" to describe the effects of this horrific weapon. We knew this when we used them.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5941.htm
No doubt he was a bad guy and needed to be put down. But I won't celebrated it like I see people on TV doing. That's just not right to me. Were all viciously killing each other with enough justification and religious fervor on both sides that were all going to end up dead if it continues. Thus the reason I don't celebrate. I congratulate for stopping him. He was definitely mad and more people would die with out his death. Celebrate the lives saved by killing him, but his death is just as sad as the next in the grand scheme of things.
I just don't like seeing people happy over death. He felt justified in killing people because of what was done to him. Now we all are feeling justified in killing him for what he did to us. It gives me a massive migraine just thinking about it. We will continue on with this cycle because we celebrate death, destruction and revenge. Yes over riches and religion. Bah I'm sorry if I'm ranting. I just see past all the media crap. People don't want to kill us because we have freedoms and good lives, people want to kill us because we have done harm to them. We want to kill them for harming us. Were all killing the shit out of each other and good men die or worse turn into better killers.
|
Mad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: AntiEverything]
#14387487 - 05/02/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
AntiEverything said: he started a firefight with the US troops supposedly. no trial was attainable. that's why they killed him outright. im kind of skeptical about the lack of body or pictures though, you'd think they would be all over that. there is a video of saddams hanging FFS. there should be beacoup pictures of osama all over the net.
there should have been a trial though, to clear up all the controversy about everything....it delegitimizes not only killing him but the entire operation when we kill him in the night and dump his body out at sea, gangster style
That's pretty much sums it up though doesn't it? It was pretty much a Mafia hit. Did they put his feet in conrete before they shoved him into the ocean?
I wonder if his body will wash up somewhere, that'd be
|
trekie
Metal man


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 11,085
Loc: Larger cities
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: AntiEverything]
#14387489 - 05/02/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
They are gonna wait till the dna test come back later today.
Then they will release photos of the body, They pretty much have too
-------------------- I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
|
I AM SWIM
doin' thangs



Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 9,999
Loc: Feels Changsta Man
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
|
Re: Official OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD Thread!!!!!!!!! [Re: trekie]
#14387498 - 05/02/11 09:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
trekie said: They are gonna wait till the dna test come back later today.
Then they will release photos of the body, They pretty much have too 
They already did DNA testing for Osama, and from what I heard, they dumped his body in the ocean (which is retarded IMO since that is just throwing away evidence)
|
|