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InvisibleCups
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Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama!
    #14385040 - 05/01/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Do you care?  Will it make a difference?

Have we had him all along? :strokebeard:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Cups]
    #14385882 - 05/01/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Will it make a difference?




None whatsoever. Pulling out of Afghanistan will make a difference.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14386016 - 05/01/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

no this shit is huge, especially in terms of american politics.  it is now so much more likely that obama gets reelected.  this puts so much shit in perspective. so much symbolism.  i'm jazzed.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: g00ru] * 1
    #14386046 - 05/01/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I can see how a spiritual being would get jazzed over the death of another human being. :rolleyes:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14386059 - 05/01/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

just being honest, enough of your ad hominem assumptions child


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: g00ru]
    #14386112 - 05/01/11 11:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Once again you demonstrate a total lack of understanding of common fallacies. What I wrote is not an ad hominem argument.

Do you ever even get one right?


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14386119 - 05/01/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

you imply a negative connotation to the term spiritual being, as i well know

i hear by challenge you to fisticuffs sir


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Offlineunsui888
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14386121 - 05/01/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

obama's been dead for 10 years...


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Cups]
    #14388457 - 05/02/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
Do you care?  Will it make a difference




it will even make a huger difference if he's not even dead at all.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Cups]
    #14389044 - 05/02/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Philosophy, sociology or psychology, which is this?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14389083 - 05/02/11 02:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sociology?


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14389090 - 05/02/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That said I think the biggest impact this will have for Americans is an increased chance of having Obama re-elected. By no means will it end or even stifle terrorism. Bin Laden wasn't the only guy who thought of being mad at the West.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14389138 - 05/02/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Phonetically, it took an Obama to get an Osama.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14389183 - 05/02/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

By the way, I find it fairly disturbing and very telling how this is being covered in the media - Osama's death is really quite inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but news outlets and my Facebook feed show that many see this event as nothing less than an unquestionable validation of the American way of life.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14389189 - 05/02/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
That said I think the biggest impact this will have for Americans is an increased chance of having Obama re-elected. By no means will it end or even stifle terrorism. Bin Laden wasn't the only guy who thought of being mad at the West.



1.  The election is a long way away.  The election will roll on what almost all of them roll on.  The economy.
2.  bin Laden was already neutralized by Bush.  His death is a largely symbolic as opposed to operational victory.  Good nonetheless.  A triumph over barbarism.
3.  Nope he wasn't the only guy.  Gotta keep killing more and more of them.  One of the leaders of Hamas had this to say:

Quote:

"We regard this as a continuation of the American policy based on oppression and the shedding of Muslim and Arab blood," Ismail Haniyeh, head of the Hamas administration in the Gaza Strip, told reporters.

Though he noted doctrinal differences between bin Laden's al-Qaida and Hamas, Haniyeh said: "We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior. We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs."





Next?


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14389208 - 05/02/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
By the way, I find it fairly disturbing and very telling how this is being covered in the media - Osama's death is really quite inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but news outlets and my Facebook feed show that many see this event as nothing less than an unquestionable validation of the American way of life.




Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Sociology?




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Philosophy, sociology or psychology, which is this?




See how it all comes together when you look at it from a different perspective? :thumbup:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Cups]
    #14389340 - 05/02/11 03:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is none of those things.  This forum should be renamed OTDII.


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14389391 - 05/02/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sociology = the study of society.

Here you have one society whose value systems where challenged by another's and took action.

Nice thing here is that sentence works for either side of the equation.

Watching the aftermath of this will be interesting to people who are interested in how human tribes interact IMO.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Cups]
    #14389453 - 05/02/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
Sociology = the study of society.

Here you have one society whose value systems where challenged by another's and took action.

Nice thing here is that sentence works for either side of the equation.

Watching the aftermath of this will be interesting to people who are interested in how human tribes interact IMO.



:rofl2:  Like I said, OTDII.  Apparently nothing that humans do falls outside the parameters of this forum.  We should just ditch all the others.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14389487 - 05/02/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Apparently nothing that humans do falls outside the parameters of this forum.




Um... nope?

What exactly are you looking for?


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14389603 - 05/02/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ZIG is a frustrated mod-wannabe.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14389616 - 05/02/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post politics in politics.  Post spirituality/religion in spirituality.  The ever expanding compass of this forum is unfortunate.  Why not post trip reports here?  Sports?  They're a human endeavor suited to sociology.  It's absurd.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14389624 - 05/02/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Post politics in politics.  Post spirituality/religion in spirituality.  The ever expanding compass of this forum is unfortunate.  Why not post trip reports here?  Sports?  They're a human endeavor suited to sociology.  It's absurd.




Sports and trip reports come up around here frequently - it's par for the course when people want to discuss the psychological, sociological, and philosophical ramifications of the subjects.

:stonedjerk:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14389669 - 05/02/11 04:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Whining about this forum also falls under its rubric. :thumbup:


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14389686 - 05/02/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is just something to convince the americans their tax dollars aren't going down the shit hole it really is.  If the CIA put as much time and effort into counter terrorism as they do for secretly smuggling in cocaine and heroin into the US he would have been caught years ago.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Cognitive_Shift] * 2
    #14389763 - 05/02/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I asked many years ago - and got tremendous emotional flak, but no real logical response, "What would have happened if the USA did nothing after 9/11?"

Well, we wouldn't have lost more rights vis-a-vis The Patriot Act. About 6000 more troops and several hundred thousand Iraqis would still be alive. We wouldn't be getting groped in airports. We would not have more silly and useless government agencies deciding what color terror flag to fly for the day. And we would have several trillion dollars more in our coffers and the dollar wouldn't be taking a nose-dive.

Guess it was a silly question...


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14389767 - 05/02/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Would it be un-PC for me to say that yes, the terrorists won?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14389790 - 05/02/11 04:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Of course they won. Our extreme overreaction was totally out of proportion to the original damage.


Deaths on US soil due to cannabis overdose in the last decade: 0 - tens of billions spent

Deaths on US soil due to terrorism in the last decade - 3,000 - several trillion spent

Deaths on US soil due to car accidents in the last decade -400,000 - tens of millions of dollars spent


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14389802 - 05/02/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's times like these I wish I'm too stupid to read.

I guess there's always religion. :jesus:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14389858 - 05/02/11 05:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I asked many years ago - and got tremendous emotional flak, but no real logical response, "What would have happened if the USA did nothing after 9/11?"

Well, we wouldn't have lost more rights vis-a-vis The Patriot Act. About 6000 more troops and several hundred thousand Iraqis would still be alive. We wouldn't be getting groped in airports. We would not have more silly and useless government agencies deciding what color terror flag to fly for the day. And we would have several trillion dollars more in our coffers and the dollar wouldn't be taking a nose-dive.

Guess it was a silly question...



1.  I lost no rights at all because of the Patriot Act and I doubt you did either.  It was almost entirely cosmetic.
2.  Aside from what I believe is your gross inflation of Iraqi deaths you do not know how many Saddam would have killed.  He was quite the mass murderer, you know.
3.  You are also grossly inflating the cost and those expenses had fuck all to do with the dollar's decline.  See my sig for some of it and then add in the unStimulus bill and two rounds of Qualitative Easing for an explanation of that.  Or maybe you think the war expenses caused the collapse of the housing market.:flowstone:
4.  Doing nothing would be an invitation to more attacks.  That's what happens to weaklings who don't resist bullies.  If you do not punish crime you get more crime.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14389938 - 05/02/11 05:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Aside from what I believe is your gross inflation of Iraqi deaths you do not know how many Saddam would have killed




We DO KNOW precisely how many he was indicted on killing during his trial. Anything past that is pure conjecture.

We DO KNOW that most of the killings he was convicted of took place decades ago when he was an ally of Rummy and the USA.

Quote:

Or maybe you think the war expenses caused the collapse of the housing market.



Standard Zappa strawman. Why the need to fabricate?

Quote:

Doing nothing would be an invitation to more attacks.  That's what happens to weaklings who don't resist bullies.  If you do not punish crime you get more crime.



First off the USA was attacked for its meddling in the Middle East, not for our lifestyle or religion - else Canada would have been attacked as well. Let uis NOT FORGET that Osama Bin Laden was an US ally and a pawn when it met our needs.

Secondly, if the damage you do to yourself is worse than what an enemy could possibly do...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14390050 - 05/02/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Aside from what I believe is your gross inflation of Iraqi deaths you do not know how many Saddam would have killed




We DO KNOW precisely how many he was indicted on killing during his trial. Anything past that is pure conjecture.

We DO KNOW that most of the killings he was convicted of took place decades ago when he was an ally of Rummy and the USA.




:rofl2:  So you think that was all?  I suppose you think OJ wasn't just not guilty but that he was innocent.  They only tried him on enough to hang him.  And yes, we did use Iraq to fight our other enemy, Iran.  Then they turned.  Sometimes good people go bad.  That doesn't mean his schoolteachers made them criminals.
Quote:



Quote:

Or maybe you think the war expenses caused the collapse of the housing market.



Standard Zappa strawman. Why the need to fabricate?




I didn't fabricate anything.  I asked you a question.  You drew the conclusion that the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan led to dollar devaluation.  For a whole host of reasons I believe that to be absurd, not the least of which is obviously greater causes.  There is also timing.
Quote:



Quote:

Doing nothing would be an invitation to more attacks.  That's what happens to weaklings who don't resist bullies.  If you do not punish crime you get more crime.



First off the USA was attacked for its meddling in the Middle East, not for our lifestyle or religion - else Canada would have been attacked as well. Let uis NOT FORGET that Osama Bin Laden was an US ally and a pawn when it met our needs.




Bullshit.  He was not a US ally.  That is historical bunk.  And we were "meddling" in the Mideast at the behest of real allies in the region, SA and Kuwait.  We also meddled to help Afghanistan.  bin Laden objected to us helping SA against Saddam.  Who made him the person to decide what Saudi policy is?  He's just a megalomaniacal lunatic and a criminal.
Quote:



Secondly, if the damage you do to yourself is worse than what an enemy could possibly do...




I note you ignored my point about not responding to bullies by presenting a distraction.  The point still stands.


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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14390113 - 05/02/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Apparently nothing that humans do falls outside the parameters of this forum.

That's the problem with the damned name. It's way too broad. But who listens to me... :confused:


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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14390782 - 05/02/11 07:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I asked many years ago - and got tremendous emotional flak, but no real logical response, "What would have happened if the USA did nothing after 9/11?"

Well, we wouldn't have lost more rights vis-a-vis The Patriot Act. About 6000 more troops and several hundred thousand Iraqis would still be alive. We wouldn't be getting groped in airports. We would not have more silly and useless government agencies deciding what color terror flag to fly for the day. And we would have several trillion dollars more in our coffers and the dollar wouldn't be taking a nose-dive.

Guess it was a silly question...




There was no way that challenge to America's death denial system of cultural superiority was going unanswered dude.

Plus, we really would have looked like a bunch of pussies and if you're going to play the game...gotta come correct.  :minigun:

Good question though OC.


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Re: Just got a text that Obama is about to adress US...Finally got Osama! [Re: g00ru]
    #14414520 - 05/07/11 10:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
no this shit is huge, especially in terms of american politics.  it is now so much more likely that obama gets reelected.



Quote:

Tchan909 said:
That said I think the biggest impact this will have for Americans is an increased chance of having Obama re-elected.



Here's an interesting relevant CNN article:

'Obama got Osama' won't win in 2012
Quote:

Well, that didn't last long.

Osama bin Laden's body was barely cold when President Barack Obama's detractors began subtly deconstructing what the president called "a good day for America."

Rush Limbaugh started his show with a sarcastic intro thanking "God for President Obama." Emily Miller, an editor at The Washington Times, tweeted that she wanted to see a picture of bin Laden's dead body.

Facebook and Twitter are already full of conspiracy theorists, questioning the validity of the U.S. military's account and minimizing the role the president played in authorizing the mission. I swear if Obama turned water into wine his critics would accuse him of being an alcoholic. That's why as satisfying as it may be to have brought an end to the bin Laden nightmare, the Democrats need to move on and get back to work because their opposition already has.

To interpret the country's "good day" as an easier path back to the White House would be a colossal mistake. A CNN poll taken in the aftermath of bin Laden's death found that while two-thirds of Americans approve of how Obama is handling terrorism, his overall approval rating of 52% is just 1 percentage point higher than from last week. Remember George H.W. Bush's approval rating went through the roof shortly after he forced Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait during Desert Storm in 1991.

The following year he was out of a job.

What can I say? The country has a short attention span.

By the time summer rolls around, bin Laden's death will be a distant memory, but the unemployment rate and gas prices will still be here, fresh in our minds.

What will Democrats have to say?

Or better yet, what will Democrats be responding to?

That is what Democrats seem to do best, isn't? React instead of initiate, ideologically handcuffed to a ridiculous game of cat and mouse seemingly oblivious to the fact their opponent is playing chess.

The most recent example of this can be found in Oklahoma.

Last week state Rep. Sally Kern came under fire for saying the reason why there is a disproportionately high number of blacks in Oklahoma's prisons was because blacks "didn't want to work hard in school." Kern also said women made less than men because women "tend to think more about their families." She made her remarks during a debate on Senate Joint Resolution 15, a proposal to eliminate affirmative action policies in the operation of public employment, public education or public contracting.

Despite Kern's offensive language, the House voted 76-16 to put the initiative on the ballot in, get this, 2012. Yep, the presidential election.

At first my anger was directed at Kern until I realized I've heard this song before.

The so-called birther bills -- which require candidates to prove citizenship before appearing on ballots -- were introduced in Arizona (before being vetoed by Gov. Jan Brewer) and Oklahoma as a wink and nod to the Republican fringe.

In the last decade the Federal Marriage Amendment and anti-gay state constitutional amendments were used by Karl Rove and George W. Bush to corral religious conservatives into the voting booths.

Senate Joint Resolution 15 is not really about abusive affirmative action practices in Oklahoma.

It's about Republicans taking back the White House.

While relying on divisive social issues such as race and abortion as a means to get votes may seem a bit outdated, until Democrats figure out a way to nullify the fear-mongering tactic effectively, Republicans are going to keep going to the well.

Allow me to direct your attention to Minnesota. This week it passed House File 1613, a state constitutional amendment proposal stating that only a union of one man and one woman is "valid or recognized" as a marriage. It too will be on the ballot in 2012.

On Monday night in Pennsylvania, House Bill 1434 was introduced by Rep. Daryl Metcalfe. It would "define" marriage as a union between one man and one woman and outlaw any other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent (i.e. civil unions or domestic partnerships). It too is being aimed for 2012.

Kern's statements are insensitive, but they did not reveal anything new about her any more than the next outlandish statement out of Howard Stern's mouth tells us what kind of radio personality he is. However, it does shed a lot of light on how she feels about her fellow Oklahomans.

By helping to place this measure on the ballot during the upcoming presidential election, it is clear Kern and her kind are betting a significant portion of the voters who believe affirmative action is a bad thing will also see Obama as a byproduct of its institutionalization. Kern was a teacher for 20 years and knows quotas have been illegal for decades and that affirmative action does not force employers to hire unqualified minorities or colleges to admit lazy black students.

But by framing the argument to suggest otherwise, Kern makes a thinly veiled appeal to anyone in her constituency who may be white and racist. And Kern clearly believes there are enough racist whites in Oklahoma worth the effort to try and scare to the polls. Just as Republicans in Minnesota are looking for a strong conservative and/or homophobic showing by placing gay marriage on its 2012 ballot.

I've never been white or straight, but if I were either, I would imagine I would find such sophomoric pandering disgusting.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (05/07/11 10:29 AM)

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