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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14440039 - 05/12/11 12:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Actually the thread's supposed to be about osama Bin Laden, so dont just look at me for 'changing the subject'





How about forming an argument against this...

Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
I trust the Colbert Report more than I trust this Corbett Report. :rolleyes:

I find it funny that conspiracy theorists always claim the intelligence community is incompetent then suddenly try to use intelligence information that claims OBL has been dead for years as evidence to back their case.

The fact that the story keeps changing is a simple fact of missions like these. People (media) make assumptions based on limited information then report it as fact which then changes when they get the full story.

The Abbottabad local who was interviewed can't be viewed as definitive evidence that OBL wasn't there. Have you ever seen video of family members of a murderer who was caught red-handed? The family members say shit like "He was the nicest guy. He couldn't have possibly done this", even though he was without a doubt the murderer. People can be oblivious of there surroundings. That's a simple fact. He claimed that it wasn't OBL because everyone has their ID checked when they move into the area. That simply points to the fact that Pakistan's government knew OBL was there.

I really don't care if the US is setting up Pakistan for an invasion. If my country can benefit from it then I'm all for it. Unfortunately, I can't set my hopes on some "world peace" pipe dream. Pakistan needs an ass kicking anyways.

Once again with the Alex Jones bullshit. Anything that has that fucker on there as "evidence" is bullshit, plain and simple. The only way he can make a living is playing on people's idiotic fears and paranoia.


Quote:

zzripz said:
You are all talking about this whilst also PRE-suming that Osama bin Laden really was there? and that there really WAS a 'DARING' raid on some old dude by AMERICAN HEROS (USA USA USA balblabla)......? worthy of any tacky vid game the screen-mindzombied yoofs queue days to get their thumbs on....? And that the government dont lie and really luuuurve you and yourrr child-dren.





Seems you are the one blinded by the video games. These types of missions have been going on for decades. The video games got the idea from the REAL missions, not vice versa as your ignorant mind thinks. As far as I can tell the US government is showing love for its own people by exploiting other countries and that is fine by me.

Even if this whole OBL thing is a big scam, what's the problem with it? You plan on moving to Pakistan sometime soon and are worried that your new home may be a battlefield? Or are you just trying to fulfill your need to be some type of flame in a dark and cold world?





Instead of going off on your rant on how zappa and I are so horrible for having an opinion on something.

Also, why are you so interested in my personal life? You writing a fucking biography about me?


--------------------
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14441792 - 05/12/11 07:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

How is that an honest question?




Stop trying to define the terms of the debate dude, its really annoying!




Where have I tried to 'define the terms of the debate'? 

If you cannot explain how a question you ask is offered honestly (relevant and making a legitimate point rather than based on fallacy or false presumption) then I don't see any reason to address it.  You brought it up: either defend its relevance or withdraw it.  These insinuations and personal remarks are not nice and not helpful.

Quote:


Quote:

I don't understand how you justify attributing moral responsiblity for (someone- US for sure) to those enfocing sanctions legally applied (at least you've made no argument contrary and it seemed legal- at least prima facia) to the regime that specifically provided a mechnism for food and medicine to be imported. 




What the fuck are you talking about?




What don't you understand?  'sanctions' is the consequences of Iraq's violations of the UN resolutions and diplomatic tensions their aggressive policy caused.  'those enforcing sanctions' are those complying with or implementing UN resolutions, specifically regarding Iraq

I am asking how you attribute moral responsibility to some other entity (you dont say who, clearly, but I'll imagine its those implementing and complying with UN resolutions) for the problems suffered by the Iraqi people during the imposition of sanctions which specifically allocated exemptions for oil sales for benefit of the civilian population: food, medicine, et cet. 

What is your justification for this? 



Quote:

Quote:

Is there reasonable assurance that the situation would have largely improved had the sanctions been eliminated?  (without Saddam letting up on his stupid policies crippling the economy, just to make a political point)




Of course! do you have any idea how different the situation was in Iraq prior to gulf war I and the sanctions? This has to be one of the most stupid questions I have ever heard.





Is this not just a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy?- after this therefore because of this?

How do you justify attributing the ills sufered by the civilian population to the sanctions rather than, say, any of the other things which occured between the two time periods you mention- such as saddam embarking on a disasterous war in violation of international law and trying to sustain one of the largest militaries in the world on a small-country's income?

You seem to meerly observe that after the sanctions things changed, but the sanctions were themselves implemented in response to signifigant events: how do you justify presuming the sanctions rather than any of these other events are to blame?


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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: johnm214]
    #14443505 - 05/13/11 02:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Mind you that this is made by AlJazeera..

I Knew Bin Laden
http://www.putlocker.com/file/97888E74AAFF60E4#


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14443527 - 05/13/11 02:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I got a question for you.  Do you think that only people who serve in a wartime military should make the decision to go to war?







I am against ALL war.


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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14443566 - 05/13/11 02:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You have a rebuttal for my arguments against your Corbett video or do you concede that your source is bullshit?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14443714 - 05/13/11 03:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
You have a rebuttal for my arguments against your Corbett video or do you concede that your source is bullshit?





Seems he gave up the ghost.  Making outrageous claims and then abandoning them when the least bit of unwillingness to support them seems pretty par for the course in 'conspiracy' land.  Usually they shift to bitching about the person who requests some clarification/evidence or they start attacking straw men (I see zzripz has allready covered both these bases with his bitching about you and his ridicule of the US and those who unquestionably believe what the US says- as if not trusting the US on faith establishes his claims.  I guess attacking manufactured position is easier than defending the things you say when you endorse such radical ideas for questionable reasons)


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: johnm214]
    #14443905 - 05/13/11 05:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

how do you justify presuming the sanctions rather than any of these other events are to blame?




Because obviously the sanctions were not an inevitable consequence of any prior action.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14444496 - 05/13/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
You have a rebuttal for my arguments against your Corbett video or do you concede that your source is bullshit?




I dont see a sensible rebuttal. I dont think you understand what lying cheating shits they are dude. I mean look, IF ANYone you knew lied like these fukers do how would you feel? Their middle name is L I E. Your not even aware of the deeper propaganda messin witrh you mind, as in HOW COME after 9/11 when two 'NUMBER 1 ENEMIES OF DA FREE WORLD' O(S)AMA bin Laden and Sadam HUSSEIN both share parts of their name with the very Pressedent ofa the UNITED STATES OF AMERICCA...?????:eek:

BARACK HUSSEIN O(B)AMA The only difference in one of the names is a letter. Put them together, and you know what you get? Lets have a look, BS, and you know what that is short for dont you?....
BULLSHIT. And that is what the story has been coming from your beloved leaders SINCE 9/11, and before and after. It is a myth they spin you again and again, but you dont get it, even though you are no stranger to the old sacred medicine your just not gettin it is ya?


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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14444686 - 05/13/11 10:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
You have a rebuttal for my arguments against your Corbett video or do you concede that your source is bullshit?




I dont see a sensible rebuttal. I dont think you understand what lying cheating shits they are dude. I mean look, IF ANYone you knew lied like these fukers do how would you feel? Their middle name is L I E. Your not even aware of the deeper propaganda messin witrh you mind, as in HOW COME after 9/11 when two 'NUMBER 1 ENEMIES OF DA FREE WORLD' O(S)AMA bin Laden and Sadam HUSSEIN both share parts of their name with the very Pressedent ofa the UNITED STATES OF AMERICCA...?????:eek:

BARACK HUSSEIN O(B)AMA The only difference in one of the names is a letter. Put them together, and you know what you get? Lets have a look, BS, and you know what that is short for dont you?....
BULLSHIT. And that is what the story has been coming from your beloved leaders SINCE 9/11, and before and after. It is a myth they spin you again and again, but you dont get it, even though you are no stranger to the old sacred medicine your just not gettin it is ya?



:rofl2:  That is the most hilarious claim I have ever heard!  :lmafo:
:tinfoil:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14444781 - 05/13/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I got a question for you.  Do you think that only people who serve in a wartime military should make the decision to go to war?







I am against ALL war.



Well that is certainly a finely nuanced position.  Also evil and dumb.  When you acquiesce to evil you participate in it.  But what is also dumb is that you still haven't answered the fucking question.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14445177 - 05/13/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I got a question for you.  Do you think that only people who serve in a wartime military should make the decision to go to war?







I am against ALL war.



Well that is certainly a finely nuanced position.  Also evil and dumb.  When you acquiesce to evil you participate in it.  But what is also dumb is that you still haven't answered the fucking question.




you do not make any sense. how can a person communicate with someone who dont make any sense? Cant be done.


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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14445201 - 05/13/11 12:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You speak of making sense yet this statement makes no sense whatsoever!!!
Quote:

zzripz said:
I dont see a sensible rebuttal. I dont think you understand what lying cheating shits they are dude. I mean look, IF ANYone you knew lied like these fukers do how would you feel? Their middle name is L I E. Your not even aware of the deeper propaganda messin witrh you mind, as in HOW COME after 9/11 when two 'NUMBER 1 ENEMIES OF DA FREE WORLD' O(S)AMA bin Laden and Sadam HUSSEIN both share parts of their name with the very Pressedent ofa the UNITED STATES OF AMERICCA...?????:eek:

BARACK HUSSEIN O(B)AMA The only difference in one of the names is a letter. Put them together, and you know what you get? Lets have a look, BS, and you know what that is short for dont you?....
BULLSHIT. And that is what the story has been coming from your beloved leaders SINCE 9/11, and before and after. It is a myth they spin you again and again, but you dont get it, even though you are no stranger to the old sacred medicine your just not gettin it is ya?




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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14446082 - 05/13/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OoBYCoO said:
You speak of making sense yet this statement makes no sense whatsoever!!!
Quote:

zzripz said:
I dont see a sensible rebuttal. I dont think you understand what lying cheating shits they are dude. I mean look, IF ANYone you knew lied like these fukers do how would you feel? Their middle name is L I E. Your not even aware of the deeper propaganda messin witrh you mind, as in HOW COME after 9/11 when two 'NUMBER 1 ENEMIES OF DA FREE WORLD' O(S)AMA bin Laden and Sadam HUSSEIN both share parts of their name with the very Pressedent ofa the UNITED STATES OF AMERICCA...?????:eek:

BARACK HUSSEIN O(B)AMA The only difference in one of the names is a letter. Put them together, and you know what you get? Lets have a look, BS, and you know what that is short for dont you?....
BULLSHIT. And that is what the story has been coming from your beloved leaders SINCE 9/11, and before and after. It is a myth they spin you again and again, but you dont get it, even though you are no stranger to the old sacred medicine your just not gettin it is ya?







The reason it makes no sense to you is because you are not aware of the mindset controlling you, and how they are playing you. I mean your not naive to believe they dont use propaganda to control you are you? yes, no? If you say yes, then how deep do you think it may go?

Have you not thought it odd that the current president has a name which is both very close to OSAMA bin Laden, and Sadam HUSSEIN...??


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Offline4896744
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14446312 - 05/13/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

you do not make any sense. how can a person communicate with someone who you don't have sense? Cant be done.




Don't blame your inability to comprehend the English language on someone else.


--------------------
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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14447259 - 05/13/11 07:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

OoBYCoO said:
You speak of making sense yet this statement makes no sense whatsoever!!!
Quote:

zzripz said:
I dont see a sensible rebuttal. I dont think you understand what lying cheating shits they are dude. I mean look, IF ANYone you knew lied like these fukers do how would you feel? Their middle name is L I E. Your not even aware of the deeper propaganda messin witrh you mind, as in HOW COME after 9/11 when two 'NUMBER 1 ENEMIES OF DA FREE WORLD' O(S)AMA bin Laden and Sadam HUSSEIN both share parts of their name with the very Pressedent ofa the UNITED STATES OF AMERICCA...?????:eek:

BARACK HUSSEIN O(B)AMA The only difference in one of the names is a letter. Put them together, and you know what you get? Lets have a look, BS, and you know what that is short for dont you?....
BULLSHIT. And that is what the story has been coming from your beloved leaders SINCE 9/11, and before and after. It is a myth they spin you again and again, but you dont get it, even though you are no stranger to the old sacred medicine your just not gettin it is ya?







The reason it makes no sense to you is because you are not aware of the mindset controlling you, and how they are playing you. I mean your not naive to believe they dont use propaganda to control you are you? yes, no? If you say yes, then how deep do you think it may go?

Have you not thought it odd that the current president has a name which is both very close to OSAMA bin Laden, and Sadam HUSSEIN...??



I am very well aware of propaganda and I do know it exists.  But there is also a limit to it's efficiency due to modern technologies.  It's very hard to pull the wool over our eyes w/ the introduction of the internet and the orgy of information that is out there and easily accessed.  The world is a smaller place b/c of it and mainstream media has less of a monopoly over the news we get.

And a person's name is just that, their name!  You're grasping at straws and trying to make connections where there are none.  I'm aware of our president's name, so what? Does that mean everyone w/ the name Hussein has something to do w/ Sadam?  Besides, Obama had NOTHING to do w/ Iraq... that was bushes project, and he just inherited the cleanup. 

Obama is NOT Osama, so I have no clue where your going w/ that.  Actually, come to think of it Osama is spelled Usama Bin Laden... so now it's 2 letters!  :archiebunker:


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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14447266 - 05/13/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

W/ your logic, I'm pretty sure you believe Nostradamus predicted Hitler when he used the name Hister.  :archiebunker:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14449477 - 05/14/11 02:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OoBYCoO said:
I am very well aware of propaganda and I do know it exists.




Ahhh good.

Quote:

But there is also a limit to it's efficiency due to modern technologies.  It's very hard to pull the wool over our eyes w/ the introduction of the internet and the orgy of information that is out there and easily accessed.  The world is a smaller place b/c of it and mainstream media has less of a monopoly over the news we get.




Oh I see. So...you presume that the powers that be that have access to trillions, and other means, are not on their own technology. That they have been gazooped by their OWN technology??
I agree with you that the Internet has been a great revolution for the gathering of info, but so will they and you can bet they will be all over it guiding you--having their spooks infiltrating etc. So watch OUT!

Quote:

And a person's name is just that, their name!  You're grasping at straws and trying to make connections where there are none.  I'm aware of our president's name, so what? Does that mean everyone w/ the name Hussein has something to do w/ Sadam?  Besides, Obama had NOTHING to do w/ Iraq... that was bushes project, and he just inherited the cleanup.




Oh, we are not talking about
Quote:

everyone w/ the name Hussein has something to do w/ Sadam?


. We are talking the PRESIDENT! Why are you so cocksure? You haven't looked into it have you? If I say MOAB, what's it mean to you?

Quote:

Obama is NOT Osama, so I have no clue where your going w/ that.  Actually, come to think of it Osama is spelled Usama Bin Laden... so now it's 2 letters!  :archiebunker:




O and U are interchangeable. Most of the press use the O anyhoo. This is what I mean about you are out of your depth with this. You dont know how these upper echelons operate. Alright take this example--when they do their operations, they have all differnt kinds of terms right? Operation Mockingbird --check it out. Yeah, its really true, the intelligence services plant news stories to manipulate the public.

So whats that got to do with USAMA OSAMA OBAMA SADDAM HUSSEIN? They dont only manipulate the news, they manipulate your mind with deep propaganda, even sorcery. But you cant believe this, because they have created this scenario via their ENFORCED 'education' system, and their mass media, and scientism etc to make you BELIEVE you live in a mechanized world, and that you are basically a machine. So this talk of wordplay, and occultist stuff doesn't make any SENSE to your conditioned worldview, and that is what I mean. That not-making-sense to you serves their purpose, because you not being aware of it gives them more power to manipulate you.


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OfflineOoBYCoO
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: zzripz]
    #14449489 - 05/14/11 03:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:morefoil:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: GazzBut]
    #14449647 - 05/14/11 04:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

how do you justify presuming the sanctions rather than any of these other events are to blame?




Because obviously the sanctions were not an inevitable consequence of any prior action.





How does this support your claim?  You allege the sanctions were not inevitably conseuqant to some class of actions.  How does that establish the sanctions caused whatever number of deaths and suffering you allege, and that the unnamed (presumably US government) actor was morally responsible for these deaths and suffering?

Further, you have not addressed the remainder of my post.

You seem to clearlyl be making a fallacious argument for your claim regarding the sanctions.  You've said you don't understand my prior post "what the fuck are you talking about", yet you do not identify what the confusion is and ignore the argument.

You don't appear to have any clear, logical, argument for your position and you now appear to ignore its defects.  If your abandoning the claims you've made than say so.  For all the nasty personal remarks you've made when your claim is questioned, you don't seem to have much in the way of any justification for what you've urged on the forum.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Bin Laden [Re: OoBYCoO]
    #14449694 - 05/14/11 05:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OoBYCoO said:
:morefoil:




OK, you answer with a goofy 'tin foil hat' gif. What that does is it STOPS YOU LOOKING. You do that and thats that. You daren't look because you've already judged yourself as being 'crazy' IF you look into this. So your your own worst enemy.


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