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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14376764 - 04/30/11 10:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you should actively seek all sorts of material to feed your head with...idk what kind of position you're trying to take.

what is wisdom? Wisdom arises out of your own self, true.  But seeking knowledge often leads to wisdom so you should seek knowledge voraciously


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: g00ru]
    #14376892 - 04/30/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well I dont deny that. I think it is more than just seeking knowledge though. People can seek for knowledge and not gain much wisdom. People could immerse themselves in any aspect of life and not gain wisdom. However without any engagement with the world and our collective knowledge of it, one will not attain wisdom. So these things can fuel wisdom, without being wisdom.

In the end I just think you can never know where to look to find wisdom, even though you need to look in order to find it. So rather than involving yourself in a search for wisdom, it would be better to involve yourself in search of knowledge/understanding, experiences, perspectives, and along the way wisdom will probably develop faster than someone engrossed in mundane unthoughtful lives. But some people have experiences forced upon them and they end up being wise without seeking it.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14377022 - 04/30/11 11:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, the wise man doesn't try to be wise, true


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OfflineSatyapriya
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14380133 - 04/30/11 11:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
Well I dont deny that. I think it is more than just seeking knowledge though. People can seek for knowledge and not gain much wisdom. People could immerse themselves in any aspect of life and not gain wisdom. However without any engagement with the world and our collective knowledge of it, one will not attain wisdom. So these things can fuel wisdom, without being wisdom.

In the end I just think you can never know where to look to find wisdom, even though you need to look in order to find it. So rather than involving yourself in a search for wisdom, it would be better to involve yourself in search of knowledge/understanding, experiences, perspectives, and along the way wisdom will probably develop faster than someone engrossed in mundane unthoughtful lives. But some people have experiences forced upon them and they end up being wise without seeking it.




well you've used the word "wisdom" about a million times so far in this thread, and yet I don't think you even know what it means  :rolleyes:

Why don't you define it for us.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: Satyapriya]
    #14380254 - 04/30/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you cant really define wisdom well but we all know what it means. It has to do with judgement, realising what is important in a given situation, knowing how to weigh up emotional factors, being tactful with regards to human factors, being able to find sensible solice in a time of difficulty, and sensible suspicion in a time of prosperity.

Ive only mentioned it a million times because people have opposed what I said so strongly. I honestly think that seeking wisdom is unwise - but this is because of the way I conceptualise 'seeking wisdom', which to me is akin to reading self help books, buying a guru's audio tapes, asking people for and collecting 'wise words', etc.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14380604 - 05/01/11 12:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Let's further look into the qualities possesd by a wise person, shall we? IMO, a wise person has the ability to discern, to control one's emotional reactions, to be aware of one's surroundings, to be able to determine the results of one's actions, to have the ability to accurately transmit and receive information, to make informed decisions, to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts, etc.
Are you saying that one can't get any benefit from actively looking to improve one's mental processes that are responsible for improving these skills? That one just has to "wait" for these improvements do be done? What a load of crap! :lol:




I think what you are describing is intelligence, not wisdom.



Wisdom
Quote:

Wisdom is a deep understanding and realizing...


the ability to discern...to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts


Quote:

...of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act or inspire to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time, energy or thought. It is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results.


to be able to determine the results of one's actions


It appears her definition was spot-on. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: Poid]
    #14381574 - 05/01/11 07:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Let's further look into the qualities possesd by a wise person, shall we? IMO, a wise person has the ability to discern, to control one's emotional reactions, to be aware of one's surroundings, to be able to determine the results of one's actions, to have the ability to accurately transmit and receive information, to make informed decisions, to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts, etc.
Are you saying that one can't get any benefit from actively looking to improve one's mental processes that are responsible for improving these skills? That one just has to "wait" for these improvements do be done? What a load of crap! :lol:




I think what you are describing is intelligence, not wisdom.



Wisdom
Quote:

Wisdom is a deep understanding and realizing...


the ability to discern...to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts


Quote:

...of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act or inspire to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time, energy or thought. It is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results.


to be able to determine the results of one's actions


It appears her definition was spot-on. :thumbup:




How do you explain extremely intelligent people who make piss poor decisions?  I say they lack wisdom.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14381879 - 05/01/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yeah they do, they lack intuition and the ability to listen to themselves (all the same thing)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14382412 - 05/01/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Let's further look into the qualities possesd by a wise person, shall we? IMO, a wise person has the ability to discern, to control one's emotional reactions, to be aware of one's surroundings, to be able to determine the results of one's actions, to have the ability to accurately transmit and receive information, to make informed decisions, to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts, etc.
Are you saying that one can't get any benefit from actively looking to improve one's mental processes that are responsible for improving these skills? That one just has to "wait" for these improvements do be done? What a load of crap! :lol:




I think what you are describing is intelligence, not wisdom.



Wisdom
Quote:

Wisdom is a deep understanding and realizing...


the ability to discern...to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts


Quote:

...of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act or inspire to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time, energy or thought. It is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results.


to be able to determine the results of one's actions


It appears her definition was spot-on. :thumbup:




How do you explain extremely intelligent people who make piss poor decisions?  I say they lack wisdom.




So, in your opinion, wise people never make poor decisions? On what planet does that happen?
By the looks of it, you just seem to have a very black and white view of reality, where intelligence and stupidity can't exist in the same person. Since this isn't the case, but you still insist that wisdom doesn't leave any room for bad decisions, feel free to give us a few exmaples of wise people who are always right, who can always accurately perceive reality, and whose decisions are constantly no less than brilliant. IMO, the only people who think in these terms about themselves and/or others suffer of an advanced state of delusion. :cuckoo:


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And never known your face
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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14382424 - 05/01/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

there's only being wise in the moment and not being wise in the moment, if you make an unwise decision obviously at that moment you weren't being wise.  No such thing as a "wise person" as obviously all qualities about us are totally transient, which is why there is no fixed ego, and that can go for any trait you care to analyze.


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Offlinezoomfan
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: g00ru]
    #14382532 - 05/01/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
there's only being wise in the moment and not being wise in the moment, if you make an unwise decision obviously at that moment you weren't being wise.  No such thing as a "wise person" as obviously all qualities about us are totally transient, which is why there is no fixed ego, and that can go for any trait you care to analyze.




well said.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: g00ru]
    #14382534 - 05/01/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I never stated otherwise. My only argument was that one can actively pursue wisdom in order to improve overall.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14382570 - 05/01/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Chill out.  I didn't say there are wise people in the world who never make mistakes.  What I said is that there are intelligent people (people with high IQs) who make poor decisions over and over.  I think wisdom is the ability to judge a situation and make good decisions consistently, but of course not always.

The definition that you gave sounds like the definition of intelligence to me: the ability to discern, to control one's emotional reactions, to be aware of one's surroundings, to be able to determine the results of one's actions, to have the ability to accurately transmit and receive information, to make informed decisions, to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts, etc.

But none of those qualities will guarantee that the person will make wise decisions for the long term.  I am actually thinking of some family members and acquaintances who have all those abilities, who are more skilled than I am, and yet fucked up their life big time with bad decisions. 

The whole point is, I don't think one can just go out and acquire wisdom  because one wants to.  But you can go out and acquire knowledge and skills.

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Offlinezoomfan
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14383808 - 05/01/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Chill out.  I didn't say there are wise people in the world who never make mistakes.  What I said is that there are intelligent people (people with high IQs) who make poor decisions over and over.  I think wisdom is the ability to judge a situation and make good decisions consistently, but of course not always.

The definition that you gave sounds like the definition of intelligence to me: the ability to discern, to control one's emotional reactions, to be aware of one's surroundings, to be able to determine the results of one's actions, to have the ability to accurately transmit and receive information, to make informed decisions, to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts, etc.

But none of those qualities will guarantee that the person will make wise decisions for the long term.  I am actually thinking of some family members and acquaintances who have all those abilities, who are more skilled than I am, and yet fucked up their life big time with bad decisions. 

The whole point is, I don't think one can just go out and acquire wisdom  because one wants to.  But you can go out and acquire knowledge and skills.




isnt wisdom a type of intelligence though?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: zoomfan]
    #14383844 - 05/01/11 05:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

One would think, but some people like to keep it mysterious and pretend that wisdom is also something else, even though, when you ask them what it is, they beat it around the bush. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14383883 - 05/01/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Chill out.  I didn't say there are wise people in the world who never make mistakes.  What I said is that there are intelligent people (people with high IQs) who make poor decisions over and over.  I think wisdom is the ability to judge a situation and make good decisions consistently, but of course not always.





Wow, that's suck a precise way of measuring poor and good decisions! :lol: You know, like "over and over" and "not always". :rofl2:
Not only that, but to assume that the hypathetical character in my previous example would be of the kind that makes mistakes over and over.
:wow:

Quote:

The definition that you gave sounds like the definition of intelligence to me: the ability to discern, to control one's emotional reactions, to be aware of one's surroundings, to be able to determine the results of one's actions, to have the ability to accurately transmit and receive information, to make informed decisions, to form concepts out of observations and to be able to understand concepts, etc.

But none of those qualities will guarantee that the person will make wise decisions for the long term.  I am actually thinking of some family members and acquaintances who have all those abilities, who are more skilled than I am, and yet fucked up their life big time with bad decisions.




Oh, I see. And what then is wisdom, if my example only portays intelligence?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14383966 - 05/01/11 05:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
One would think, but some people like to keep it mysterious and pretend that wisdom is also something else, even though, when you ask them what it is, they beat it around the bush. :wink:




it is a type of intelligence but not the type of the thinking mind.  It's a formless intelligence (which is actually the true intelligence of the thinking mind also).

You probably won't jive with this but the way I've got it figured out, there is your being.  This being can connect with the mind.  When it does so, and "you" are actively in your head thinking, this is intellect.  When the mind is just flowing but you are really "doing" it, that's just mind.

There's a difference between your almost involuntary thoughts and when you're really in your head "HEY IM IN MY HEAD RIGHT NOW THINKING ON PURPOSE" and those absent minded thoughts "laa dee da gurlz are sexy i wanna fuck her shit i have homework i like playin guitar oooh its cold out damn i eat too much"  this is the state of distraction


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14383993 - 05/01/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

wisdom cannot be acquired and hoarded like knowledge. it can only be experienced.


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14384952 - 05/01/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
How do you explain extremely intelligent people who make piss poor decisions?  I say they lack wisdom.





I'd be interested in anyone proving to me how any decision is a "poor" one or a "good" one. 

As for the OP...

IME The more your mind expands the more full of shit it becomes.  Try for less.

You may surprise yourself.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Where to go from here? [Re: Cups]
    #14385641 - 05/01/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What do you mean, full of shit?  What are you filling your mind up for anyways? What are your true goals? From an artistic standpoint the only "shit" is tasteless stuff.  Feed your head with anything you want as long as it's beautiful. So much of skepticism and so called rational thought is based in fear and clinging tendencies.  So many people need to leave the fucking farm :prance: there's cool shit out there that you can't find with your head all caught up in needing evidence

basically what i'm saying is go fucking crazy and be awesome


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