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InvisibleMufungo
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Registered: 04/03/07
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Re: Instead of trying to understand people, I prefer to explain them using simple words. [Re: xFrockx]
    #14418320 - 05/08/11 05:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"Do you see the irony in asking what people mean when they use a word or phrase when your previous argument indicated that me providing a meaning would only obscure things further for you?"

I said asking for definitions, not meanings, obscures things further. At least asking for meaning is direct and doesn't rely on outside sources.





Ok... So definitions are not meanings? And any meaning people give you does not rely on outside sources?

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"By saying that, are you also indicating that you can't/don't/won't make meaning of words? "

No. Only that I don't ultimately know what they mean.




So you do make meaning of words, but you don't know what they mean?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Instead of trying to understand people, I prefer to explain them using simple words. [Re: Mufungo] * 1
    #14418455 - 05/08/11 07:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Ok... So definitions are not meanings? And any meaning people give you does not rely on outside sources?"

Are definitions meanings? I don't know. We have two words here, "definition" and "meaning" each with its own multiplicity of uses. One might say that a definition as seen in Webster's has a meaning. We might say that a definition is what we see (e.g. "noun- a person, place or thing"), and its meaning is how we understand it. Is this what definitions and meanings actually are? Is that even a sensible question? If it isn't, is it sensible to assume we really do know what they mean? I don't know. Is it sensible to assume we do not know what they mean? I don't know that either. If these are just tools that fit into whatever role we use them for, it would seem anything but sensible to assume either way.

"And any meaning people give you does not rely on outside sources?"

When I tell you what I mean, is what I say made from an outside source, or is it made by me? I don't know. I have difficulty in deciding on the origin of ideas. A simple answer to your question though is that by "outside sources" what I meant was books, dictionaries, and other "authorities" one might literally cite.

"So you do make meaning of words, but you don't know what they mean? "

Yeah that seems fair. I can understand what someone tells me as many ways as I can think of, but actually knowing what the words mean is another matter. At breakfast you could point to your eggs and tell me "these are eggs." Do I know what an "egg" is now, or do I just have an example of a way to use that word, that I can remember for future use? The thing that a chicken egg is, namely the oval white things we buy in cartons, are not eggs, they are called eggs. Do we know what an egg is? Well, do we know what "to know" is? There's no cartons full of knowledge to point at, we don't even have a way of making a concrete example. All we can do is point to examples of statements, like "Don't shit where you eat." Is that knowledge? I don't know. But some people would call it knowledge. The statement itself though is no more knowledge than the oval white thing is an egg. The statement, as well as the oval white thing, are what they are, as they exist to be perceived by you and I.


Edited by xFrockx (05/08/11 07:22 AM)


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OfflineAhimsa
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Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: Instead of trying to understand people, I prefer to explain them using simple words. [Re: xFrockx]
    #14418645 - 05/08/11 09:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

At first i liked the idea. Then i thought a little about it *chuckle* and, of course, things became complicated.
By doing what you describe it is possible to actually putting the very label that applies to you, in that situation, to them. You'd be stupid, not the believer in god, you'd be immoral, not the soldier fighting, and so on...

Perhaps the best route to real understanding is openness to difference, and the acceptance that everything is change (be it slow or fast). Kind of holding a middle ground, but that requires effort. Sometimes too much if i say so myself.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Instead of trying to understand people, I prefer to explain them using simple words. [Re: Ahimsa]
    #14418699 - 05/08/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Perhaps the best route to real understanding is openness to difference, and the acceptance that everything is change (be it slow or fast). Kind of holding a middle ground, but that requires effort. Sometimes too much if i say so myself. "

For me the best route to understanding is never thinking that you understand. And that is an easy thing to do if you're honest with yourself and aren't dependent on a self concept that requires you to understand things.


Edited by xFrockx (05/08/11 09:29 AM)


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Instead of trying to understand people, I prefer to explain them using simple words. [Re: xFrockx]
    #14418716 - 05/08/11 09:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, and the simple labels are very useful at times but going deeper into the matter may bring to light a far further reaching insight in the way things are and why people do the way they do.

I agree that there is no such thing as totally understanding. But every fact, every insight, every idea, every newly made link abd association does provide means for a fuller engaging with this thing called life, that is others included.

Simple words are brilliant! I'll bear that to mind.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Instead of trying to understand people, I prefer to explain them using simple words. [Re: Ahimsa]
    #14419012 - 05/08/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh no, the OP was intended as a joke. Basically its sarcasm about not judging people, and trying to understand them instead.


Edited by xFrockx (05/08/11 11:00 AM)


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Instead of trying to understand people, I prefer to explain them using simple words. [Re: xFrockx]
    #14419419 - 05/08/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ah. I don't do sarcasm but can appreciate. :smirk:


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