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johnny_peyote
Woodland Forager


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 665
Loc:
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#14386850 - 05/02/11 04:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow awesome find, are you the same guy who found them in his backyard last year as well? Talk about luck!
Just to add about Psilocybes growing in potted plants, ive also found a couple of subs growing from potted plants in a nursery nearby. They were definitely subs though, so not as interesting as this. Nice work!
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: johnny_peyote]
#14386883 - 05/02/11 04:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnny_peyote said: Wow awesome find, are you the same guy who found them in his backyard last year as well? Talk about luck!
Ha, yes! That was me. And luckily they're growing in the same spot again this year!
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obtuse
myco0



Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 2,406
Loc: tasmania
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#14387229 - 05/02/11 07:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Im going to play devils advocate here, while i know what its like to find exotic mushrooms and the excitement it entails, i hate to do it but i would have to call a high probability on psilocybe subaeruginosa for these.
i have seen subs grown inside and there are definite similarities. when grown indoors they loose their normal characteristics and appear as very different mushrooms as a result of lack of free air exchange. the caps in particular are very different, with that small curved up appeareance.
(currently scouring my photo collection for the photos sent to me)
They also love growing out of potting mix, i had quite a few turn up in a few of my pots in the garden last winter. i thought it was hilarious.
Anyway, sorry....
Cheers, Obtuse.
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johnny_peyote
Woodland Forager


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 665
Loc:
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: obtuse]
#14387320 - 05/02/11 08:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah subs can vary in appearance massively from patch to patch too. The way those pins look though, so much different to any sub pin ive seen before. Who knows, microscopy would give you a much better answer.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: johnny_peyote]
#14387372 - 05/02/11 08:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Either way, very cool find.
I've seen Leucocoprinus in potted plants, but no Psilocybes. Yet.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Doc_T]
#14446930 - 05/13/11 06:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm still interested to find out exactly what these are. I have all 4 specimens completely dried and I'm wondering if it's still possible to get a positive ID from looking at them under a microscope. If there is anyone in Australia who would be interested in taking a look, please PM me and I would be happy to post the mushrooms to you.
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TimmiT


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#14492808 - 05/22/11 05:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The pics are bad (my camera doesn't like my microscope), but here are the results from microscopy on these:
Spores: elipsiod to elongate-elipsoid with broad apical germ pore, thick walled, yellow-brown colour, avg 12 x 6 µm

Pleurocystidia: none observed
Cheilocystidia: abundant, hyaline, lageniform to narrowly lageniform, avg 29 x 6 µm

Conclusions: They belong in Psilocybe section Semilanceatae. It seems likely that these are the same species as the undescribed ones that inski has found in potted plants. Hopefully he can comment on how well they compare.
-------------------- "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: TimmiT]
#14495561 - 05/22/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks to TimmiT for taking the time to look at these. I'm hoping someone will now be able to positively ID this species.
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#14528678 - 05/28/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Found two pins popping up today. Very small but hopefully they will mature and I can get some spore prints.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#20098550 - 06/08/14 01:12 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Collections of subaeruginosa from nearly every location in Australia other than South Australia have those exact microscopic characteristics - clear 'bowling pin' lageniform c.cystidia. what you have there is classic subaeruginosa.
Johnson and Buchanan did the best work on this group - previous lechotype descriptions were poor and some were even made on macroscopic characteristics alone.
Another distinct characteristic of subaeruginosa is grey flecking on the stipe. You dont see this in many US continental lignious Psilocybes.
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Zen Peddler]
#20098564 - 06/08/14 01:17 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'd be very interested to hear what others have to say about this. I do not believe it's a sub. I'm confident TimmiT knows what he's talking about and that he provided true and accurate information.
Like I said though, I'm interested to see what others think in regards to what you've said.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#20099171 - 06/08/14 06:13 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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That is fine - but all recent and accurate descriptions of the microscopic features of subaeruginosa have clear bowling pin cystidia - those from WA, those from NSW, those from Tasmania and Victoria. South Australia has some unusual microscopic and macroscopic features.
Still one of the amazing features of subaeruginosa is that despite it haveing a number of quite different macroscopic phenotypes its microscopic features are nearly always identical.
Timmit's photos are quite clear - those cystidia are classic subaeruginosa. Im sure Inski or Workman can confirm this.
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TimmiT


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Zen Peddler]
#20099394 - 06/08/14 07:33 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't think Psilocybe subaeruginosa can be ruled out from the microscopy. The lack of pleurocystidia means that this find keys out in Guzman's monograph to sect semilanceata, but the fact that I didn't observe any isn't necessarily a confirmation of their absence.
I will have to find my notes to see the actual measurements, but the cheilocystidia width averaging 6µm suggests that the range of widths falls below the published ranges for P. subaeruginosa (Johnston & Buchanan = 6.5-10µm, Guzman = 5.5-11µm and Chang & Mills = 5.5-16.7µm).
When I have some free time I will have another look to see if I can find any pleurocystidia and make some more measurements.
-------------------- "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: TimmiT]
#20101852 - 06/08/14 07:06 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting... obviously I don't know about any of this microscopy stuff, so I can't comment.
Would be very interested to know if it was a sub....
I'd sent a print to Captain Future, but he wasn't able to successfully fruit it. Also sent a sample to another person inside Australia who did the basic "sub butt" tek, who also failed with fruits.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#20102659 - 06/08/14 10:48 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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The mushroom is subaeruginosa. I can tell you that with 100% certainty. If I still had my website I could send you numerous identical cystidial forms.
that is of course if you believe that mushrooms van be broken into species based on minute phenotypical shape variations on microscopic structures like Guzman did.
The subaeruginosa group actually demonstrate this point - phenotypes of the same mushroom broken up based on phenotype incorrectly.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Zen Peddler]
#20102664 - 06/08/14 10:50 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sorry just ramblin' lol
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Zen Peddler]
#20103120 - 06/09/14 01:14 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
obtuse said: Im going to play devils advocate here, while i know what its like to find exotic mushrooms and the excitement it entails, i hate to do it but i would have to call a high probability on psilocybe subaeruginosa for these.
i have seen subs grown inside and there are definite similarities. when grown indoors they loose their normal characteristics and appear as very different mushrooms as a result of lack of free air exchange. the caps in particular are very different, with that small curved up appeareance.
(currently scouring my photo collection for the photos sent to me)
They also love growing out of potting mix, i had quite a few turn up in a few of my pots in the garden last winter. i thought it was hilarious.
Anyway, sorry....
Cheers, Obtuse.
It was like my first indoor ovoids, insufficient lighting inside causes some weird uncharacteristic shapes.Quote:
bluemeanie said: Collections of subaeruginosa from nearly every location in Australia other than South Australia have those exact microscopic characteristics - clear 'bowling pin' lageniform c.cystidia. what you have there is classic subaeruginosa.
Johnson and Buchanan did the best work on this group - previous lechotype descriptions were poor and some were even made on macroscopic characteristics alone.
Another distinct characteristic of subaeruginosa is grey flecking on the stipe. You dont see this in many US continental lignious Psilocybes.
Grey flecking eh? I will need that to distinguish my allenii from my subaeruginosa since my patches collided this summer!
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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So it's just lack of lighting/nutrients that has made the appearance so different? I found an outdoor sub a few days ago which was similar to this one, and again it was in an area with very little direct light.
Probably explains why Captain Future had no luck growing, as we were under the impression it was a different species.
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obtuse
myco0



Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 2,406
Loc: tasmania
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: Nevermind]
#20103341 - 06/09/14 02:00 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nevermind said: So it's just lack of lighting/nutrients that has made the appearance so different? I found an outdoor sub a few days ago which was similar to this one, and again it was in an area with very little direct light.
Probably explains why Captain Future had no luck growing, as we were under the impression it was a different species.
id say lack of airflow, and nutrients. not so sure about lighting, i would think perhaps lack of warmth. i know of patches where too much sunlight dries it out, and when it gets to a point where it has more shade it starts to fruit. its that fine balance between too much and too little light.
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Nevermind


Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia
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Re: ID Needed for mushroom growing in bathroom. [Re: obtuse]
#20103366 - 06/09/14 02:14 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Looks like you were right all along... you had your doubts from the beginning, and it now seems as though you had good reason.
Sorry for not listening to you earlier, but it was very exciting to think I'd found something new, so naturally I didn't want to think of it as just another sub... and to be fair, it really didn't look like any sub I'd ever seen and it seems as though it fooled a lot of other people to.
If TimmiT does get around to reviewing his notes we might find out something new... but I think the general consensus at the moment is P. subaeruginosa.
There's a part of me that still hopes it is something different... but I think realistically with this new information it is most likely a sub.
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