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zoomfan
doubt 'er


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intelligence and depression
#14375930 - 04/30/11 02:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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there seems to me to be a correlation between intelligence and depression without a clear cause. It is my opinion that intelligent people tend to put more importance on their thoughts than less intelligent people and therefore are more prone to depression. if you put importance on a thought like, im just gonna die anyway whats the point, your more likely to be depressed than if you dont put importance on thoughts.
I know this seems shallow and obvious but i think its something which is often overlooked. i know i used to feel like i had to figure certain things out even if i had to go deep into depressing territory so my depression was really self induced.
Often in trying to find happiness we dive too deep into depressing thoughts and just keep digging deeper in attempt to find the cure, when the search itself is the cause. there is only one end to the search and that is to end the search. this is what people call enlightenment, searching and searching until they realize there are no answers and no end to the search.
so just live life and play with thoughts with the knowledge that they do not represent reality, or have any effect on reality unless you want them to.
-------------------- Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: zoomfan] 1
#14376009 - 04/30/11 03:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Perhaps, to a point...but to have a great emotional intelligence is to be able to find balance, and hopefully happiness. To make lemonade, so to speak.
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Kickle
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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: Sleepwalker] 1
#14376688 - 04/30/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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A thought does nothing without the expectation that accompanies it. And like Icelander was so fond of pointing out, death anxiety is the worst for this. We know we are going to die, yet death anxiety is always pushing us towards an unrealistic expectation that we can avoid it. So even though I can think about death, my expectation never quite lines up with the reality. That can cause some serious problems in the intelligent. Mostly because there is much less belief in stories about what happens.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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mr_minds_eye
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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: Kickle]
#14376778 - 04/30/11 10:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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People seem to think that I'm intelligent. I guess I have my moments, but honestly feel more like an idiot savant most of the time. I know that I have issues with depression. They go back to when I was about 12-13. I have a family history on both sides, the almost exact form of depression being common on my dad's side of the family.
So there's my background. I feel like depression in all of its forms is an internal struggle. Its like any other source of suffering though, its about how you react and what you do with it. Ignorance is not bliss, its just ignorance. To me happiness is a choice. When I am in the throws of a depressive episode it might not seem as such. It still is though. There is a lot of willpower involved too.
I don't believe that thinking inherently makes you depressed. If you are intelligent I think that you are more prone to seeing the ugliness in the world, the inequality, the sacred being paved over for yet another fucking strip center, another fucking gas station (cadycorner from the one that's already there)
The people in my life who have been inspirational to me are the people who can see all of this, have no illusions about it, and still CHOOSE to be happy. A lot of these people were Latin Americans who were here illegally, had to work the shittiest jobs, and still didn't seem to get a drop on them. I worked with this one guy Carlos, he was an engineer in Mexico. He didn't speak much English and liked having a job that he didn't take home with him. This guy had to the dirtiest job at this place. He had to pull shit out of the sink once. Baby diapers baking in the southern summer sun. You get the idea. One time I asked him why he was so happy considering. He told me that life is simply too short.
There was another guy there who was basically in charge of the kitchen. He didn't speak enough English to be an official manager I guess, but he might as well have been one. He had a certain level of unquestioned authority. He had a pretty good job within the place anyway. Yet that mother fucker NEVER smiled. Your thoughts and outlook frame and filter reality.
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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LightShedder
Trading currencies



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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: mr_minds_eye]
#14376989 - 04/30/11 10:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm with u op. Ignorance is bliss. unfortunately I don't posess enough of it I guess.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: zoomfan]
#14377177 - 04/30/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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IMO better awareness and observation skills can lead to both higher intelligence and greater chances of depression.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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desert father
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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: zoomfan]
#14377364 - 04/30/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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honestly i think depression has to do with nutrition, just like most other "conditions".
yes people, i'm saying that depression is a symptom of malnutrition.
intelligent people take care of their bodies, and aren't depressed.
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Quote:
desert father said: honestly i think depression has to do with nutrition, just like most other "conditions".
yes people, i'm saying that depression is a symptom of malnutrition.
intelligent people take care of their bodies, and aren't depressed.
I have seen intelligent people who took zero care of their bodies in terms of either sports or eating right. And to say intelligent people aren't among the depressed is just not true.
Having said that, I absolutely agree with you that proper nutrition plays a huge role in many mental conditions. This is true today more so than 100 years ago when people ate off the land. Thanks Monsanto and Dow Chemical.
Not only are people starved of good nutrients, they truly do eat a lot of crap. And let's not forget fluoride as a dumbing down agent, and surely those not in their pineal mode must be a little more depressed as a result of that chemical. Even the gov had to admit 2 of 5 kids got too much fluoride in water so they came up with (get this) fluoride fucking varnish for kid's teeth! Get the poison sealed and dosing constantly as the varnish erodes! Fucking brilliant!
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Quote:
honestly i think depression has to do with nutrition, just like most other "conditions".
Like many of your 'thoughts', it is just not true. Can abusing your body lead to less than optimal performance? Yes. Can eating a perfect diet (even though no one can agree with what that is exactly) cure clinical depression? No.
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NetDiver
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Yeah, I think nutrition might influence depression, but not in any really profound way. I would say it has a number of complex causes (genetic, other mental/neurological conditions, grief and loss, etc.) that can't be fixed so easily.
I've experienced severe depression in the past and it's pretty damn persistent.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: zoomfan]
#14381163 - 05/01/11 03:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zoomfan said: there seems to me to be a correlation between intelligence and depression without a clear cause.
Here's an interesting study:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a789252607
Quote:
This study examined whether patients with major depressive disorder manifest deficits in intelligence during affective episodes and following clinical improvement. WAIS-R scores were contrasted in 100 patients in an episode of major depression with 50 normal controls, matched to the patient sample in terms of demographic variables and estimates of premorbid IQ. The groups were equivalent in verbal IQ, but, in line with previous studies, the depressed patients had a pronounced deficit in performance IQ. A patient subsample was administered the WAIS-R under unlimited time conditions to determine whether the time constraints of performance IQ subtests contributed to the magnitude of the verbal-performance IQ discrepancy. This discrepancy was only slightly reduced with untimed scoring. Subgroups of depressed patients were retested with the WAIS-R within one week (n = 26) or two months (n = 33) following treatment with electroconvulsive therapy. In both subsamples, IQ scores were improved at posttreatment testing relative to pretreatment, but with little change in the verbal-performance IQ discrepancy. These and related findings suggested that a performance IQ deficit is characteristic of depressed patients regardless of affective state.
It seems there is a negative correlation between intelligence and depression.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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foliocb
always running



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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: Poid]
#14381196 - 05/01/11 03:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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IQ only depicts left-brain hemisphere functions. Do some EQ research while you're at it and you just might have something
-------------------- ^v^
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: zoomfan]
#14382243 - 05/01/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
honestly i think depression has to do with nutrition, just like most other "conditions".
Like many of your 'thoughts', it is just not true. Can abusing your body lead to less than optimal performance? Yes. Can eating a perfect diet (even though no one can agree with what that is exactly) cure clinical depression? No.
it can go a long fucking way. Exercise and a great diet do so much to naturally balance your chemicals and promote releasing endorphins, plus it's psychologically healthy to take some sort of action.
As for the OP, idk if my energetic perspective is going to be valued but here's the way I see it. Intellectuals are, naturally, always centered up in their head, in their thoughts. This leads to great revelations and understanding. For one thing, many times these revelations will be about the hard facts of life. For another thing, happiness doesn't arise in the head, at least not usually. It arises in the heart primarily, and can be helped by lower centers of energy like your sex chakra and your power chakra (located at the navel).
So many smart people (mainly white males btw, in this particular case of depression due to intellect, as i think other ethnicities have more balanced energy) get caught in this viscous cycle where they have these revelations about life, such as that it's all a power struggle or nice guys finish last or life is suffering or a supernatural being couldn't possibly exist (duh), and combined with that they aren't present enough in the moment to experience their natural heart bliss. It leads to a highly cynical and skeptical view of reality, which is just being in your head too much and trying to protect yourself. I was in this category myself for the longest time, from 6th grade until halfway through my freshmen year of college i'd say. I didn't really know who I was, and I had lots of anxiety.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: g00ru] 2
#14382257 - 05/01/11 11:59 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You amaze me with your continous confidence in your ignorance. You know next-to-nothing about clinical depression, but carry on. I would hate to see you actually educate yourself and so that you could speak intelligently about a subject.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: You amaze me with your continous confidence in your ignorance. You know next-to-nothing about clinical depression, but carry on. I would hate to see you actually educate yourself and so that you could speak intelligently about a subject.
Why would you hate that?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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zoomfan
doubt 'er


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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: Poid]
#14382344 - 05/01/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
zoomfan said: there seems to me to be a correlation between intelligence and depression without a clear cause.
Here's an interesting study:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a789252607
Quote:
This study examined whether patients with major depressive disorder manifest deficits in intelligence during affective episodes and following clinical improvement. WAIS-R scores were contrasted in 100 patients in an episode of major depression with 50 normal controls, matched to the patient sample in terms of demographic variables and estimates of premorbid IQ. The groups were equivalent in verbal IQ, but, in line with previous studies, the depressed patients had a pronounced deficit in performance IQ. A patient subsample was administered the WAIS-R under unlimited time conditions to determine whether the time constraints of performance IQ subtests contributed to the magnitude of the verbal-performance IQ discrepancy. This discrepancy was only slightly reduced with untimed scoring. Subgroups of depressed patients were retested with the WAIS-R within one week (n = 26) or two months (n = 33) following treatment with electroconvulsive therapy. In both subsamples, IQ scores were improved at posttreatment testing relative to pretreatment, but with little change in the verbal-performance IQ discrepancy. These and related findings suggested that a performance IQ deficit is characteristic of depressed patients regardless of affective state.
It seems there is a negative correlation between intelligence and depression.
ive seen this study before, its actually been proven that the hippocampus or hypothalamus shrinks during depression i forget which one i always get them mixed up, its also been proven that ect reverses the decrease in size. i agree that eventually depression causes a decrease in iq.
on another note, id like to see a study about initial iq scores of depression patients who do not have clear physical or psychological causes. or more importantly a study on the exact thoughts that depressed people focus on. i dont know if i could agree with the idea that depression has a chemical/physical cause. i would even go so far as to say that i think bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are thought disorders which effect the physical body as a side effect..
-------------------- Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.
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HippieChick8
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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: zoomfan]
#14382383 - 05/01/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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zoomfan said:Quote:
i dont know if i could agree with the idea that depression has a chemical/physical cause.
Hypothyroidism can cause severe mental depression, which is relieved upon taking an adequate dose of thyroid hormones.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: You amaze me with your continous confidence in your ignorance. You know next-to-nothing about clinical depression, but carry on. I would hate to see you actually educate yourself and so that you could speak intelligently about a subject.
i've grown up my whole life with a mom who was extremely depressed, and inherited her psychological makeup, so stuff it bub
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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desert father
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dude what thoughts of mine do you disagree with?
and yes vitamin therapy can cure depression.
the founder of alcoholics anonymous had severe depression.
his boy who was a doctor who fucked with vitamin therapy suggested 3500mg of B3 a day to fight the depression.
he was never depressed again.
BW tried to have vitamin therapy incorporated into alcoholics anonymous but the influence of the pharmaceutical companies kept it from happening.
dude you don't know everything, and there's no way you can disprove anything that i said.
medical doctors are just that, medicine doctors, they treat symptoms, not the sources of conditions.
the sources of conditions are being poisoned by the food from the supermarket and not shitting sweating and drinking water enough.
if you change the source of the problem, it goes away.
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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Sophistic Radiance
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There are many oversimplifications in this post - medical doctors ARE ostensibly expected to treat the underlying causes of problems when they are able to do so.
Depression is a very broad disorder which can be caused by anything from nutritional deficits to substance abuse to lifestyle problems to neurological impairments.
Sometimes people fall into unhealthy lifestyles BECAUSE of depression, which then makes depression harder to escape.
Some people are genetically more prone to clinical depression.
I could go on, but it's unwise to make generalizations about any form of mental illness, much less such a major and diverse one as depression.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
desert father said: and yes vitamin therapy can cure depression.
So can electroshock therapy. 
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: deCypher]
#14391762 - 05/02/11 10:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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And lobotomies.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: And lobotomies.
I've always wondered why we don't just lobotomize violent offenders and put them to work for the government. It's a far more effective method for preventing repeat crime than any other method besides capital punishment, and this allows us to actually put them to some use.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: g00ru]
#14411025 - 05/06/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
honestly i think depression has to do with nutrition, just like most other "conditions".
Like many of your 'thoughts', it is just not true. Can abusing your body lead to less than optimal performance? Yes. Can eating a perfect diet (even though no one can agree with what that is exactly) cure clinical depression? No.
it can go a long fucking way. Exercise and a great diet do so much to naturally balance your chemicals and promote releasing endorphins, plus it's psychologically healthy to take some sort of action.
Exercise and a healthy diet alone will not eliminate the underlying psychological issues that are related to depression.
Quote:
guruu said: As for the OP, idk if my energetic perspective is going to be valued but here's the way I see it. Intellectuals are, naturally, always centered up in their head, in their thoughts. This leads to great revelations and understanding. For one thing, many times these revelations will be about the hard facts of life. For another thing, happiness doesn't arise in the head, at least not usually. It arises in the heart primarily, and can be helped by lower centers of energy like your sex chakra and your power chakra (located at the navel).

Quote:
guruu said: So many smart people (mainly white males btw, in this particular case of depression due to intellect, as i think other ethnicities have more balanced energy)...
, why do you think this? 
Quote:
guruu said: ...get caught in this viscous cycle where they have these revelations about life, such as that it's all a power struggle or nice guys finish last or life is suffering or a supernatural being couldn't possibly exist (duh), and combined with that they aren't present enough in the moment to experience their natural heart bliss.
Why do you think that being present in the moment causes "natural heart bliss"? What is "natural heart bliss"?
Quote:
guruu said: It leads to a highly cynical and skeptical view of reality, which is just being in your head too much and trying to protect yourself.
What do you mean by "trying to protect yourself"?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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sandi
omg


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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: zoomfan]
#14411082 - 05/06/11 04:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is why the monkey takes the half-crumpled intelligence hat and becomes a business major on Futurama. Too intelligent: life is not worth living, what's the point. Too stupid, not good enough. Of course he went on to become the president of the Fox network. (Gunter the monkey on Futurama).
I believe that in people who do not suffer from chemical imbalances, intelligence makes a huge difference, and does make them more prone to depression, but I have no actual basis for this.
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: intelligence and depression [Re: sandi] 1
#14411141 - 05/06/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandi said: I believe that in people who do not suffer from chemical imbalances, intelligence makes a huge difference, and does make them more prone to depression, but I have no actual basis for this.
Hooray for baseless beliefs!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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