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InvisibleCrasher
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The Noble Serpent
    #14366137 - 04/28/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've always loved snakes, and never quite understood why they were so feared and hated. I know that some Christians equate it with their devil, but I believe this is a misunderstanding that was created as scripture was translated and passed down. I think most of you are familiar with the conventional Garden of Eve story, so I'll skip it. 


So, where else do we find references to serpents in history? let's start with Judeo-Christianity.

Moses creates a large bronze snake atop a staff to cure the Israelites of snakebites after they questioned Moses' leading them into Bumfuck, Egypt.

Quote:

They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea,[c] to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; 5 they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!”

6 Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.

8 The LORD said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.






Jesus later references this figure in the book of John:
Quote:

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.






The process of "lifting up the serpent" sounds familiar to raising Kundalini (literally meaning "coiled,) which is typically illustrated as a serpent coiled in Muladhara, the root chakra.



Don't forget the rod of Asclepios and the Cadduseus, two of the most frequently used and confused symbols in western society.

The former was the rod of a great physician, who received it as a gift from his father, Apollo, who carried the latter.





thoughts?




--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

Edited by Crasher (04/28/11 10:38 AM)

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: Crasher]
    #14368424 - 04/28/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Theres definitely something to it historically and mythologically.
However, i can't say that i'm a big fan of the reptiles. I was given a pet lizard as a gift and i see absolutely no point in having this animal.

It cannot be your friend. It shows no affection nor is it capable of receiving the same. It serves no purpose to me.
They are cold blooded animals that only want to be fed, hydrated and provided with warmth, which is the only reason they even let you touch them.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: jivJaN]
    #14368626 - 04/28/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The caduceus is probably the most rich symbol in the human psyche.

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14368672 - 04/28/11 06:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineOneU
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #14369444 - 04/28/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

To be honest I have found some snakes to be very affectionate and loving. With every sentient being I have found this. Some take a more peaceful resonance to enter the exchange of Love.

The snakes are very symbolic, I spent some time with Native peoples of this Earth and many of them pray to the snake. Some pray to the snake to bring her powers of skin shedding to aide in losing that which no longer serves the benefit of all, some use the snake to connect to the Earth because it is a being that is always on the Earth. It uses parts of the Earth to go higher whereas others jump or fly.

Some others pray to it because of Kundalini, it has healing powers and the Sikh people believe in it's powers. I was given a download or something by this man once, said he connected me to the lineage of Sikh who use this power. I felt the changes and went to go heal someone and they felt a cold sensation (in comparison the usual warm/hot sensation). I later realized this man was not a man and not from the Earth, had a triangle in his eye and was quite peculiar.

Also, Moses' staff some say turned into a snake but speaking to older cultures than mass media, they say it turned into a dragon. Who knows.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: OneU]
    #14369580 - 04/28/11 09:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

To be honest I have found some snakes to be very affectionate and loving.





i dont buy it.
YOU might feel like it or think they are giving you affection but they are not.
They are incapable of it.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: jivJaN]
    #14369774 - 04/28/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There's something about reptiles and how they can remain completely still for long periods of time. Makes you wonder what it's like to just stay like that, almost like a dead object, until some signal says now its time to slither towards food again. Then again maybe it's not so different, just more quiet meh.. They are cool though.

Symbolically lifting the snake up maybe represents a kind of a miraculous ascension, since it has no legs and is doomed to slither on the ground lower than other creatures. Ancient symbolism is kinda weird that way. Maybe human minds back then worked in a very different way than our rationally conditioned minds today so that they actually understood and gained something out of these strange illustrations. I know I personally still have to take some kind of drugs before this kind of snake stuff really starts to make perfect sense, but then it invariably does :stoned:

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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: jivJaN]
    #14370037 - 04/28/11 10:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
Quote:

To be honest I have found some snakes to be very affectionate and loving.





i dont buy it.
YOU might feel like it or think they are giving you affection but they are not.
They are incapable of it.



Some say the same thing from the standing ones; trees and such, rocks and even the elemental Spirits yet I have experienced differently. Is it your projection from something you have read that says this or have you genuinely sat down in a state of truth and attempted to exchange energy with a reptile to feel it's energy? They, like all sentient beings in this oneness have much, much Love to give.

All creations possess the same Light within them. Your ideals may be different from mine in which case I can accept that but for you to try and cast a projection over me and say that a fellow being is incapable of Love is confusion to me.

Love and blessings.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: OneU]
    #14371627 - 04/29/11 08:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Like i mentioned earlier , i have a pet lizard and from attempting to interact with it i have concluded that this animal is barely even aware that i exist.
It doesn't see me as a "living being". Its brain doesn't work like that. It sees my eyes ,hands or what have you and genetically, instinctively, certain triggers in its brain signal it to either retreat, coil up for defense or attack to feed.

I am not trying to cast any projections or discard  your beliefs.
I used to be the kind of person that thought spirit is everything and in every living being.

So even if we take this route , and assume that a spirit just like you is incarnated into this reptile body, your attempts to show it love or feel its love for you, would actually CONFUSE THE FUCK OUT OF THAT ANIMAL.

In its incarnation as a reptile, if this is the case in point , would not be to experience emotion.
Yours however, as a warm blooded , self-aware human would be.

So if anything.. you would be the one projecting onto the animal.
Anthropomorphizing animals is a very common projection among humans. Many times , this has lead them to injury if not death.

These animals, above anything else.. want to be left alone.. by you.


Quote:

Love and blessings.




A young man was once asked , if he could choose one wish for all other beings , what would it be.
Lots of people participating in the same interview , responded with peace, love , happiness etc.
This young man, said : nothing.
He did not see him self worthy enough to wish anything upon another being.

You have much to learn young hobbit.


:bigjoint:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Invisibledonteatasians


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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: jivJaN]
    #14371678 - 04/29/11 08:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
Like i mentioned earlier , i have a pet lizard and from attempting to interact with it i have concluded that this animal is barely even aware that i exist.
It doesn't see me as a "living being". Its brain doesn't work like that. It sees my eyes ,hands or what have you and genetically, instinctively, certain triggers in its brain signal it to either retreat, coil up for defense or attack to feed.

I am not trying to cast any projections or discard  your beliefs.
I used to be the kind of person that thought spirit is everything and in every living being.

So even if we take this route , and assume that a spirit just like you is incarnated into this reptile body, your attempts to show it love or feel its love for you, would actually CONFUSE THE FUCK OUT OF THAT ANIMAL.

In its incarnation as a reptile, if this is the case in point , would not be to experience emotion.
Yours however, as a warm blooded , self-aware human would be.

So if anything.. you would be the one projecting onto the animal.
Anthropomorphizing animals is a very common projection among humans. Many times , this has lead them to injury if not death.

These animals, above anything else.. want to be left alone.. by you.



Quote:

Love and blessings.




A young man was once asked , if he could choose one wish for all other beings , what would it be.
Lots of people participating in the same interview , responded with peace, love , happiness etc.
This young man, said : nothing.
He did not see him self worthy enough to wish anything upon another being.

You have much to learn young hobbit.


:bigjoint:



I think that's why I've always loved reptiles.  They seem simple, emotionless, and completely satisfied alone.  More contact than needed can stress them out like crazy and they spend most of their time just chilling.  I relate to them better than any other animal I know of.


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: donteatasians]
    #14371971 - 04/29/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here's a good one with lots of surrounding myths, lies, conspiracies and hidden truths.



I've always been fascinated with the confusion of Lucifer, Satan, Belial, Beezlebub, Baphomet, and Pan.

On his arms is Solve et Coagula, an alchemist maxim for "separate and join together" which is consistent with others like V.I.T.R.I.O.L. and innumerable other theories that man must be dissolved and reborn to gain the true philosopher's stone, which leads me to the next serpent.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

Edited by Crasher (04/29/11 10:41 AM)

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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: Crasher]
    #14372021 - 04/29/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)



The Orphic Egg. From inside emerges the hermaphroditic Deity. Often the philosophers stone is symbolized as this egg protected by a serpent.

Now this is funny. Does this serpent bear any semblance to the revolutionary flags that are being abused by ignorant Tea Party enthusiasts?



--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

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Offlinetimelapses
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: Crasher]
    #14372201 - 04/29/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Pontifus Rex and the pharm and medical symbol that is eveywhere with the snake wrapped around.  Distorted now but interesting in it's history.


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OfflineOneU
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: timelapses]
    #14372552 - 04/29/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Jivjan, I never said it shows me the same love I show it. I never said I give you or wish you love and blessings, I simply put it there for all to know it is always, constantly available to all in every moment. I never said a reptile will see me physically or not or that the same Spirit lies in his body as mine, I said the same light within him is within a rock, within wood, plastic and me because it is the basis of this universe; this energy. That was your projection. I won't even go into the hobbit thing because I don't really push to use my ego in arguments so I will let you keep that bit of slime for yourself.

Also, I never said they experience emotion. Love is beyond emotion as it is incapable of being experienced to it's truth by the physical body. You have some experiences in this world which have birthed your so called awakening and I have mine brother. This is not my way, it can be yours. You cast many projections in your post because I never spoke of emotions or going around and picking up reptiles for some exchange. I never have owned one but I have been around reptilians, I have been around people who have owned snakes and komodo dragons and yes they didn't interact the usual "animal" way but they had things to share. Love is truth to me. Love is the light of it all metaphorically. Not some emotion we feel when we eat some chocolate or fall for someone. To me it's deeper than that.


This wasn't meant to be an argument.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: OneU]
    #14372802 - 04/29/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Affectionate :

af·fec·tion·ate/əˈfekSHənit/Adjective
1. Readily feeling or showing fondness or tenderness.
2. Expressing fondness.

This is why i responded the way i did.


Quote:

I never said I give you or wish you love and blessings, I simply put it there for all to know it is always, constantly available to all in every moment.




Blessing :

–noun
1.
the act or words of a person who blesses.
2.
a special favor, mercy, or benefit: the blessings of liberty.
3.
a favor or gift bestowed by god, thereby bringing happiness.



Quote:

I won't even go into the hobbit thing because I don't really push to use my ego in arguments so I will let you keep that bit of slime for yourself.





You know.. the hobits wouldn't appreciate you're attitude one bit and i myself find them to be a very admirable folk.
Perhaps you were offset by the implication that you are young.
What would the kids say ?

hmmm..
you've given yourself a lot to think about.


Quote:

This wasn't meant to be an argument.





:sherlock:

looks like my first post really did confuse you.

:lol:

Thats ok. You can simply forget about the whole ordeal.
I will allow it.
:chriswalken:



Quote:

i have been around people who have owned snakes and komodo dragons




Thats awesome.
Komodo dragons are fkin beast.



--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: Crasher]
    #14374145 - 04/29/11 06:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The first few chapters of genesis are filled with metathesis about the snake involving three letter root characters. The snake is called the most sly (arum) of all creatures, and later on after eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge, Adam (who was formed from the ground, or adamah) tells god he is naked (erom). They're the same consonants in hebrew. Even Eve which is hawwah (the femanine form of life or "hey") contains the same root characters that are later used for the snake. The snake is cursed to crawl on it's belly (gehon), while gihon is the name of one of the rivers used to identify the location of eden which rashi associated with the Nile river. Some people also draw a corolation between the two and the gehenna (the place of suffering or hell), which is interesting because Nehemiah later talks about how the jews saw the "suffering of your forefathers in the land of egypt. Even Pishon, which is one of the other rivers, contains the same jumbled three letter root as the word used to describe man becoming a "living being"(nephesh).

Richard Friedman has a great updated comentary on the torah if you're interested.


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14374151 - 04/29/11 06:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Whoa, I just noticed, snake and naked are very similar in english too.
:awehigh:


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: Crasher]
    #14374200 - 04/29/11 07:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Here's a good one with lots of surrounding myths, lies, conspiracies and hidden truths.



I've always been fascinated with the confusion of Lucifer, Satan, Belial, Beezlebub, Baphomet, and Pan.

On his arms is Solve et Coagula, an alchemist maxim for "separate and join together" which is consistent with others like V.I.T.R.I.O.L. and innumerable other theories that man must be dissolved and reborn to gain the true philosopher's stone, which leads me to the next serpent.




2Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem: cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:

Isaiah14:12

How is it that you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who used to rise like the sun? How is it that you have fallen to the earth, you who wounded the peoples?

Quomodo cecidisti de cælo Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris? Corruisti in terram, qui vulnerabas gentes?

:Trollface:


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14374267 - 04/29/11 07:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Here's a good one with lots of surrounding myths, lies, conspiracies and hidden truths.



I've always been fascinated with the confusion of Lucifer, Satan, Belial, Beezlebub, Baphomet, and Pan.

On his arms is Solve et Coagula, an alchemist maxim for "separate and join together" which is consistent with others like V.I.T.R.I.O.L. and innumerable other theories that man must be dissolved and reborn to gain the true philosopher's stone, which leads me to the next serpent.




2Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem: cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:

Isaiah14:12

How is it that you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who used to rise like the sun? How is it that you have fallen to the earth, you who wounded the peoples?

Quomodo cecidisti de cælo Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris? Corruisti in terram, qui vulnerabas gentes?

:Trollface:




How many devout Christians even know that Isaiah, written in Hebrew, didn't use Lucifer, "light bearer" which is Latin, and wasn't used until the Old Testament was translated? Or that Isaiah is talking about a Babylonian king, not the "devil?"


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Noble Serpent [Re: Crasher]
    #14374364 - 04/29/11 07:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Here's a good one with lots of surrounding myths, lies, conspiracies and hidden truths.



I've always been fascinated with the confusion of Lucifer, Satan, Belial, Beezlebub, Baphomet, and Pan.

On his arms is Solve et Coagula, an alchemist maxim for "separate and join together" which is consistent with others like V.I.T.R.I.O.L. and innumerable other theories that man must be dissolved and reborn to gain the true philosopher's stone, which leads me to the next serpent.




2Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem: cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:

Isaiah14:12

How is it that you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who used to rise like the sun? How is it that you have fallen to the earth, you who wounded the peoples?

Quomodo cecidisti de cælo Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris? Corruisti in terram, qui vulnerabas gentes?

:Trollface:




How many devout Christians even know that Isaiah, written in Hebrew, didn't use Lucifer, "light bearer" which is Latin, and wasn't used until the Old Testament was translated? Or that Isaiah is talking about a Babylonian king, not the "devil?"


Next to none I'd say. I once heard from one of the Jesuits at St. Xaviers in Cincinnati that something like 3/4 of the people who complete a  divinity degree at a legit theological seminary like Harvard or Cambridge, end up giving up their so called chrism because they're so disillusioned(disillusioned is a really interesting word when you start to think about it) with what they find out. Though I have no idea whether those numbers are legit.


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