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InvisibleHut

Registered: 02/07/10
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Loc: homb
Banisteriopsis Caapi
    #14372903 - 04/29/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hello.
I have a 3 ft. b. caapi vine that I Transplanted last month and has been growing sometimes 2" a day from one of the nodes.
I've been giving it water pH'd down to about 6.4 and have only fertilized it once. It's in well drained soil.

I'm concerned because I noticed some yellowing on one of the leaves.
If anyone could check this out for me and tell me what this indicates I would really appreciate it.

Thanks



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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

Edited by Hut (04/29/11 02:40 PM)

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Offlineturtle_hermit
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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14373230 - 04/29/11 03:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Possibly a potassium deficiency? Here's some info, hope it helps.

http://www.progressivegardens.com/growers_guide/plantnut.html

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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14373407 - 04/29/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Can you tell us exactly what is in the mix and what kind of fertilizer you use. Also if you could check the pH of the runoff water. Use the first bit to come out. With the minerals it seems like lockout should be looked into before trying to treat it as a difficiency. I mean if all you need is a flush, you really don't want to start piling more shit in there. K is for sure a possibility though.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14373547 - 04/29/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sure, I'm using the Dr. earth fertilizer which is 3-3-3 used it a couple weeks ago @ 1tbsp per gallon. (it says to use two)

pH of runoff is 7.0

soil mix is forest bark, forest humus, pumice, perlite, washed sand, worm castings and oyster shells


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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14373753 - 04/29/11 05:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

7 wouldn't lock out K, but could cause issues with Fe, that's also the point at which Cu & Zn start becoming less available. 6.5 is what I shoot for with most plants. That looks like a pretty good bottled fert but instead of using that, I'd look into some compost teas just because they are cheap to make and potentially loaded with more. When watering use a little unsulphered mollasses every time. It seems like minerals are the culprit. The other thing that you might want to look into is Silica. Its amazing for increasing resistance to all types of stress. There is a product called Dynagrow Protekt which is super cheap and all it is is a concentrated potassium silica solution. Rare Earth from General Hydroponics is also good. Adding rice hulls, horsetail, or nettles to your soil will work too. The last two can be made into a fermented plant extract for this purpose too. Also more kelp is hardly ever a bad thing. So good luck with that.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

Edited by mr_minds_eye (04/29/11 05:16 PM)

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14373877 - 04/29/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you for your expertise!

What would be your recommendation for the pH of water to get the runoff down to 6.4?


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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14373999 - 04/29/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Like I said 6.5 is my target but I don't stress over +/- .2 or so. Organic isn't exact, its about balance. The more you make your own ferts and mixes the faster you will develop your own Kung Fu. One day you will wake up and your Kung Fu will be correct. The thing is its like snowboarding, sometimes you learn more from eating shit. It means that you're pushing the envelope. Hey no problem, we all get by with a little help from our friends right?


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14374079 - 04/29/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So check this out:

I googled "Amazon Rainforest Soil pH" and this was out of the first result.

As we would expect for extremely weathered soils, the pH of the tropical soils are acidic, as most basic compounds have been washed away by leaching.  The average pH for the Amazon Basin is between 4.17 – 4.94 (Negreiros, G. H. de; Nepstad, D. C. 1994, Mapping deeply rooting forests of Brazilian Amazonia with GIS, Proceedings of ISPRS Commission VII Symposium - Resource and Environmental Monitoring, Rio de Janeiro. 7(a):334-338.).  While the pH remains relatively constant over time, we can see that it has effects on the biological and chemical characteristics of the soil.  Most microbiological life in the Amazon soils is fungi rather than bacteria, which prefer basic conditions.  Chemically, soils below a pH of 6.0 are more likely to be deficient in certain nutrients optimal for plant growth, including Ca, Mg, K, and phosphate ions.  Acidic soils are also more susceptible to Al3+ toxicity, as aluminum ions become more soluble as pH decreases (Tan, Kim H. Environmental Soil Science, 2000, Marcel & Dekker Inc.).  Of course, native rainforest species are adapted to these conditions, thus an acidic pH, and its effects, only become an issue when we attempt to use the land for other purposes.

While I don't think that you have to take the pH THAT low, erring on the side of acidic is probably a good idea.

You are looking at minerals washing down from the Andes which are volcanic in origin. This means high levels of silica among other minerals.

Decaying organic matter. A humic acid extract might not be a bad idea. Also when considering what source to use for which nutrient, think plant sources first.

Then riverbed silt. Which I had to do several searches to pull this up, but:
Acidic silty soils are rich in calcium, magnesium and sulfur

So for that just a touch of gypsom would help. Not too much because you don't want to fuck with your acidity. Gypsom is also a great chelating agent.

I just got a new B.caapi. I grew it years ago, but my cat killed it. She ate the new tips off when it came back in the spring and that was all she wrote. I am stoked to have another.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14374185 - 04/29/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks again, you have been a world of help!


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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14374307 - 04/29/11 07:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How often would you use the humic acid extract?
also how often would you use protekt?

just follow the directions?

I think I'll try flushing it with pH 5.9 water and some molasses for a while...


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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14374348 - 04/29/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah just follow the directions on the humic acid. I get a solid extract from a local organic agriculture supplier. Its a lot more cost effective than the liquids. It comes as a black powder with a 1 tsp:5 gal water dilution ratio. A pound was only $11. The silica you can use every time, but use less if you do. Horticulture is like cooking in that you can always add more. After a couple of weeks you can actually feel an increased thickness in the leaves. You can use it on everything. Just be aware that it makes draught stress invisible until right before the plant kicks it. In general though, it will prevent end rot on fruits and veggies, help the plants deal with cold, wet, hot, dry, in short it should almost be like N-P-K-Si.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14377991 - 04/30/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Update:

I had a feeling the soil mix I originally used out of ignorance was too basic, so yesterday I transplanted the vine into some fox farm soil and flushed it with pH 5.9 with 1 tbsp per gallon of blackstrap molasses.

The run off is reading at 6.5 today. Nice.

I also put some of that molasses mix in a spray bottle and gave it some foliar feeding with it.

I think that if I keep this up and implement a couple of the products you suggested soon (ordered online) I should be able to keep this thing thriving beautifully with this minor set back to a couple of the leaves...

:pipesmoke:


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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14378116 - 04/30/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

There are better ways to get minerals to your plant via foliar feeding. I make an alfalfa spray by filling a mason jar with coarse chopped alfalfa hay (what you feed to rabbits). Then filling the jar with boiling water. I then set this into a pot of recently boiled water. Put some sort of weight on top of the straw. I use a sake cup. Keep a hot kettle close by to keep topping the jar off with as the straw absorbs moisture. Let it sit for a good 24hrs. Then squeeze out everything. Throw the hay in the compost bin and dilute to about 1/50(could hypothetically go as high as 1/20 but less is more with this one and I get good results with about 20mL per qt) ie 19.2mL per 32oz. This is mainly growth hormone. A solid kelp extract could be used with it.

Spraying the mollasses on the plant could attract insects or give something pathogenic a foothold to grow. It might not. I just wouldn't want a sugary residue on my leaves all the time. Dilute it to 1-2tbs per gallon. Just water it in. It will boost the microbial herd in the soil and raise the brix level which gives the soil more structure. Also I don't know how you water but bottom feeding/watering is where its at. Less stress on the plant and it more effectively saturates the soil.

I'm glad that things are on the up and up. Just remember to be patient and not love it to death. You have a great specimen there so you must be pretty good at what you do:wink:


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14378159 - 04/30/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I feel foolish for the molasses foliar, you are very right about that, and a very excellent tip on the diluted alfalfa extract...thanks once again! I will definitely have to try this.

I have a dish thats about an inch deep that catches the run off water. The pot is about 1 ft. tall. You would suggest filling the dish with the water rather than watering the top soil?


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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14378324 - 04/30/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If it feels like thats doing the trick sure. I use bus tubs like at restaurants but then again canna pots tend to be a bit larger. Then for my smaller plants I use an empty unused cheapo cat litter box like the kitten sized one. Anyways it doesn't matter. Just make sure the fluid doesn't go more than 1/3 up the side of the pot. Otherwise you're flushing shit out.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14378510 - 04/30/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah a bus tub is much deeper than what I'm using now; I got this little circular dish at the garden store. If you say bottom feeding is better for caapi then I may have to get something more tub like, eh? And I will remember to never let it exceed 1/3 of the way up the pot.

I noticed caapi roots went all the way down to the bottom of the pot. It seemed to really like the super moist saturated mush of the bottom and was seeking that out rather than the environment that the rest of the soil offered. I'm used to growing cannabis, so this is like the polar opposite to what I'm used to. It was cool to see the roots so healthy and thriving in those kinds of conditions.

Here's a picture of it's current status. Only about two or three leaves have shown signs of heavy stress. The new leaves that are growing rapidly are lush and green. I want to keep that up!

<3 I love Banisteriopsis Caapi!

:pipesmoke:



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You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14394539 - 05/03/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you know the sayings about growing weeds inentionally and they die?


Caapi is a weed :discorex:


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: kadakuda]
    #14394979 - 05/03/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm glad that your plant is on the up and up. My baby just started to grow. When its something worth seeing, I will get a picture up.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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InvisibleHut

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14399892 - 05/04/11 12:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey ya'll, thanks for the replies

Today I got the dynagrow and the humic acid and gave the caapi a feeding with them and a bit of molasses. Currently it has dropped a few leaves, and a couple more are yellowing. (I crushed them and just let them rest on top of the soil) pH runoff is at 6.5 and the initial watering was read @ 5.9. It is growing rapidly and the new growth is still green.

Any idea why these leaves are dropping and yellowing? I hope it stops soon!

It's very warm up here in my apartment, and the humidity is pretty high. I think this thing should be pretty happy and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong...



--------------------
You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you. - Robert Anton Wilson

Edited by Hut (05/04/11 01:09 PM)

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Re: Banisteriopsis Caapi [Re: Hut]
    #14400088 - 05/04/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If the new growth is happy then thats a good sign. Sometimes it just takes a while for things to get to where you want. What were you using to lower the pH? You never said. Citric acid is what I use. Its cheap and it does the trick. Like Kada was saying, sometimes we do too much for out plants. I'd work on getting the pH lower though. You wouldn't want to do that all at once even if you could though. I've seen plants lose old growth when new conditions present themselves. IE when the light gets more or less intense. Just saying relax a little. It has a few to spare. Things will work out, just be patient.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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