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Offlinepfxtc
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Psychedelics and Spirituality
    #14368465 - 04/28/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just my random thought for the day, but since people have started taking psychedelics they have always associated them with spirituality (for the most part). Many believe that psychedelics allow one to "take more in" or become one with God and all of this, but I just think that as humans we are just merely fascinated with things being different. You live one way your whole life and you take a mushroom and everything changes, of course you're gonna jump to things like divine intervention. If we were naturally high all of our lives, would we consider ourselves to be "tripping" all the time... would we consider ourselves to be "aware" all the time as it were? What if one day, we took a mushroom, and it made us "sober" in the sense that we think of now..

It's all just chemicals man, that's all it ever was. Spirituality is a hoax. Flame shield initiate.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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Offlinebdub
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14368501 - 04/28/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe the shrooms we eat now DO make us "sober" for a while...like, woah man :fasted:


--------------------
Drug to do list:
Marijuana, LSA, Alcohol, Psilocybin, Salvia, LSD, Methylone, MDMA, MDA, 4-AcO-DMT, 2C-E, 2C-I, 25C-NBOMe, 6-APB, 4-FA, 2C-B, 5-MeO-MiPT, MXE, DOC, Mescaline, n,n-DMT, DiPT (yeah, that's right, DiPT)


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14368522 - 04/28/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think that humans have evolved a spiritual or mystical sense as a survival trait.  Ever notice that at people's lowest point that's when they have their moment?  Those without that experience just fucking died.  There was no reason to live anyway, so that behavior became almost instinctual in many people.

I see it as nature's trick to enhance self-preservation.  The vehicle to explain and understand these feelings are expressed through religion, philosophies, and our personal favorite, psychedelic drugs.  But if you were raised with a Superman comic book as your religion, you'd explain it through Clark Kent and Lois Lane and hate Lex Luther, the scumbag.

And it would feel just as real as a Christian in the throes of passion, a Muslim crashing his plane, or a shroomerite sipping his ayahuasca.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: bdub]
    #14368528 - 04/28/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Death is sobriety, the term sober in today's society only applies to what we consider usual or constant, but our bodies and minds are ever changing. Your mind changes states after you eat or while you're having sex, people just sometimes fail to grasp this concept, just as people fail to realize alcohol and coffee and spinach and bread are all drugs just like anything else we put into our bodies. Random tangent.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: joemolloy]
    #14368542 - 04/28/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
I think that humans have evolved a spiritual or mystical sense as a survival trait.  Ever notice that at people's lowest point that's when they have their moment?  Those without that experience just fucking died.  There was no reason to live anyway, so that behavior became almost instinctual in many people.

I see it as nature's trick to enhance self-preservation.  The vehicle to explain and understand these feelings are expressed through religion, philosophies, and our personal favorite, psychedelic drugs.  But if you were raised with a Superman comic book as your religion, you'd explain it through Clark Kent and Lois Lane and hate Lex Luther, the scumbag.

And it would feel just as real as a Christian in the throes of passion, a Muslim crashing his plane, or a shroomerite sipping his ayahuasca.




A high point in a low moment is only high because you're looking up at it from the bottom of a cave.. to someone whose already in a high state, the low persons achievement was merely baseline :tongue2: I guess I just don't really agree with what you're saying. I view religion/spirituality as another way to just soothe our ego's and to make us seem more important and to try and give meaning to life (other then to live, of course)...


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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InvisibleLibertin
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14368565 - 04/28/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think it's possible that spirituality is merely a result of not yet well understood brain chemistry. And psychedelics are effectively just 'pressing the right buttons' chemically to cause a spiritual experience. In fact they're thrashing at the keypad triggering all kinds of brain functions - stimulating various brain circuits - hence the roller-coaster rainbow-coloured cocktail of spiritual/emotional/cognitive events.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14368580 - 04/28/11 06:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


A high point in a low moment is only high because you're looking up at it from the bottom of a cave.. to someone whose already in a high state, the low persons achievement was merely baseline :tongue2: I guess I just don't really agree with what you're saying. I view religion/spirituality as another way to just soothe our ego's and to make us seem more important and to try and give meaning to life (other then to live, of course)...




Ah, we're in total agreement, brother.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: Libertin]
    #14368589 - 04/28/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Libertin said:
I think it's possible that spirituality is merely a result of not yet well understood brain chemistry. And psychedelics are effectively just 'pressing the right buttons' chemically to cause a spiritual experience. In fact they're thrashing at the keypad triggering all kinds of brain functions - stimulating various brain circuits - hence the roller-coaster rainbow-coloured cocktail of spiritual/emotional/cognitive events.




We must have been separated at birth.  You got a million dollar smile and a beautiful Mediterranean tan too?


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: Libertin]
    #14368613 - 04/28/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:


A high point in a low moment is only high because you're looking up at it from the bottom of a cave.. to someone whose already in a high state, the low persons achievement was merely baseline :tongue2: I guess I just don't really agree with what you're saying. I view religion/spirituality as another way to just soothe our ego's and to make us seem more important and to try and give meaning to life (other then to live, of course)...




Ah, we're in total agreement, brother.




As in we're agreeing that we disagree, or we're both actually agreeing? :lol:

Quote:

Libertin said:
I think it's possible that spirituality is merely a result of not yet well understood brain chemistry. And psychedelics are effectively just 'pressing the right buttons' chemically to cause a spiritual experience. In fact they're thrashing at the keypad triggering all kinds of brain functions - stimulating various brain circuits - hence the roller-coaster rainbow-coloured cocktail of spiritual/emotional/cognitive events.




I disagree completely. Like I said, I think the brain is capable of firing off these 'circuits' whenever it pleases, and in fact, if we were seeing the world with naked eyes, it would be completely overwhelming. Evolution is in favor of survival, and seeing the White Light isn't exactly beneficiary to trying to run away from a bear. Psychedelics probably just help alleviate the symptoms of our trained minds.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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OfflineHerbalJunkie
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14368681 - 04/28/11 06:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well I used to think psychedelics are the KEY to the truth.. well they kind of are the shortcuts, and as deep as i went down the rabbit hole, hoping to find the answer, all I found was emptiness. Which is what really is behind it all at the end of the day. Nowadays i belive when i take psychedelics, take the mushroom for example.. I'm not seeing reality as it really is, but rather just viewing the universe thru the Mushroom Perception. Which is fun. I heart it


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: HerbalJunkie]
    #14368727 - 04/28/11 06:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Truth and Goals are just merely things we make up, just like religion and spirituality :shrug:

I don't know why since the beginning of time people have tried to hard to make life "meaningful" in the average sense of the word.. life just is, that's all it ever was.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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OfflineCulturedLion
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14368748 - 04/28/11 06:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Bleak view but true, I just want to know who the fuck put us here!


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: CulturedLion]
    #14368782 - 04/28/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well if you want me to explain my thoughts on THAT, I'll post this excerpt of mine:


I think therefor I am, -Descartes

That statement is basically the main point of my argument. We exist, it's been proven. Death exists as well, and I'm fairly certain we don't think while we're dead. This gives a little insight to the power of living and the power of death.

People like to talk about God and religion and the lot of things. People also like to discuss the absence of a God. The problem with such theories is that there always comes a point in which one must ask "but who created God?" or "If there's no God, then what was there before the big bang?"

In my eyes it's relatively simple. The Multiverse that we inhabit has always existed. I say Multiverse because as stars live and die, our Universe is alive, and will one day. Just as we do.

Therefor I've coined a little term, Existence is Infinity. The "space" in which we inhabit has existed forever, and will always exist. time is a complete illusion, and only a means for us to create a little bit or order out of supposed chaos. Everything that could ever happen or has ever happened, is happening, now. Forever. Our minds have been subdued into thinking this is all there is for survival's sake, nothing more.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


Edited by pfxtc (04/28/11 06:58 PM)


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OfflineTheresa
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14368971 - 04/28/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The first time I took ecstasy which was 3 years ago spiritual things just started happening in my life. I started to meditate more, do yoga and feel completely different. I even experienced temporary ego loss. Drugs definitely can open up the spiritual air waves.


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: Theresa]
    #14368983 - 04/28/11 07:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What makes meditation and yoga spiritual other then the fact that some Hindu fucks say it is?

I never understood that :shrug:

Hinduism and Buddhism particularly annoy me. Why does mindfulness = enlightenment.. just more chains that are forced upon the desperate mind. More attempts at potentiating life. It's all so insane to me.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


Edited by pfxtc (04/28/11 07:36 PM)


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14369060 - 04/28/11 07:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pfxtc said:
What makes meditation and yoga spiritual other then the fact that some Hindu fucks say it is?

I never understood that :shrug:

Hinduism and Buddhism particularly annoy me. Why does mindfulness = enlightenment.. just more chains that are forced upon the desperate mind. More attempts at potentiating life. It's all so insane to me.




You sound like you need some good old integration.  Think about it and don't be scared.  I'll do it with you and maybe the two of us can work as partners passing out flowers at the airport.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Invisiblegigoloaunt
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality *DELETED* [Re: pfxtc]
    #14369073 - 04/28/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by gigoloaunt

Reason for deletion: Cleaning up clutter.



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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: gigoloaunt]
    #14369117 - 04/28/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

pfxtc said:
What makes meditation and yoga spiritual other then the fact that some Hindu fucks say it is?

I never understood that :shrug:

Hinduism and Buddhism particularly annoy me. Why does mindfulness = enlightenment.. just more chains that are forced upon the desperate mind. More attempts at potentiating life. It's all so insane to me.




You sound like you need some good old integration.  Think about it and don't be scared.  I'll do it with you and maybe the two of us can work as partners passing out flowers at the airport.




Let me quote an old friend,

"Your denial is beneath you, and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you" - Mr. Hicks
Quote:

gigoloaunt said:
I think, therefore I am. I think.
- the moody blues

Regardless of what religion you believe in, we all know what we're talking about when we say something about a "spiritual feeling". Spirituality is like love, if you try to pinpoint every little detail you'll miss the big picture.
I kind of think religion uses that feeling as a marketing tool in a way. Some guy claims to have found out all the answers to all the feelings you can't explain. To me, spirituality is like a subconscious appreciation of life.




What big picture are you referring too?


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: pfxtc]
    #14369171 - 04/28/11 07:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

when it comes to psychedelic realizations i think you can realize things about yourself, your life, and the world but not necessaraly the universe type shit.


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Invisiblegigoloaunt
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality *DELETED* [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14370479 - 04/28/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by gigoloaunt

Reason for deletion: Cleaning up clutter.



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OfflineThePhilosophizer
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Re: Psychedelics and Spirituality [Re: gigoloaunt]
    #14371004 - 04/29/11 02:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The united idea of consciousness and by that I mean the you who controls your arms moving, the thoughts you think, your tastes in movies, people you like/dislike, etc, is scientifically an illusion because all those actions are carried out independently by different areas of the brain. There is no central place where all these functions meet to be controlled through some metaphorical remote by a 'self'. Yet we all have this self, the sense of consciousness that can choose to contract muscles, as well as choose to think about a particular topic. We feel like the same being, the same 'I', that decides to contract a certain muscle is the same being who decides to think about a particular topic. But thinking thoughts and making muscles contract are carried out by different parts of the brain. This idea we get that there is a place in the brain to which both of these functions are connected to does not exist and is only an illusion.

I feel like if this was really the case, there would be no experience at all. I mean, everything would happen exactly the same, but people would be like robots who have this idea of consciousness implanted in their programming. They would ponder it, but there would be no one behind these robots to experience it.

Who's to say that this is not the world we live in? Well, I am and I can only truly say this to myself. Because: the only thing I know FOR SURE is that I am having this conscious experience. That I exist. For all I know, all of you are just figments of my imagination. But, of course, if you're not and you're reading this, you can vouch for your conscious experience existing as well (and you could only prove this to yourself, no one else).

But here's the stump: regardless of whether or not you exist or not, the validation of my own conscious experience did not just come out of nowhere. But where did it come from? Where did my physical brain get this idea and be able to articulate it into this post? Consciousness is something I feel, something I experience. It is simply obvious to me. And yet for me to be able to think about it, I have to use my physical brain, inside of which such a thing does not exist.

My conscious experience and the fact that scientifically it does not exist is the only proof I need to know that I have what spiritual mambojumbo would refer to as a soul. A piece of myself that is not made of atoms and 'worldly' matter, but something entirely different. The fact that I can think about it through my physical brain proves to me that there is a link between this otherwordly soul and my physical brain, through which I experience my body (and through the latter, I can affect the environment around me).

Psychedelics are no more spiritual than our ordinary states of existence. Though that is not to say that the sober state is incapable of being spiritual; same for the psychedelic state, though the reason behind the spiritual nature of the experience is not in the chemicals or the chemical changes that take place in the brain. In fact, as far as their course of action goes, that is all that psychedelics do on their own. They alter the individual processes in the brain that create the illusion of consciousness, therefore resulting in an illusion that is different in nature, sometimes drastically so. This fact can be easily used to completely hinge the idea of consciousness to the brain and discredit any spiritual possibilities, but to me, they only strengthen my belief in the soul.

Why?

It's simple: all you have to do is flip it around. What if, instead of consciousness being the illusion and its vessel (the brain, the body, the world it exists in) being real... What if everything material is an illusion and only consciousness is real?

This is actually the core of all spiritual teaching. It is also the only leap of faith you need to make to believe in spirituality. Why do I make this leap of faith? Because of the certainty I have in the existence of my own individual self and the fact that this self is scientifically non-existent.

YOU exist too. How do I know that? Because if you didn't, then I'd be just typing to myself and it wouldn't matter anyway because no one conscious would read my writing. And if that is not the case, then well... You do exist :grin:

Consciousness is not your thoughts. Consciousness is not your emotion. Consciousness is not any physical sense that you feel. Thoughts change, just as personalities change, and so do emotions, yet in the end you're still conscious of your new self. In a similar sense, when you take a psychedelic, you become conscious of what happens when the chemicals that make up these emotions and thoughts are messed with. It is not the consciousness that changes on a spiritual level, it is what the consciousness is experiencing through the brain that changes.

I believe that we do not experience consciousness through our brain. We experience our brain through our consciousness.
:2cents:


--------------------
:pinkshroom:  :regularshroom:  :mushroomgrow: :greenshroom: :stinkyshroom: :scaryshroom: :mushdance: :dancingshroom: :cubie:  :mushroom2:  :supershroom:      :muahaha:

<<<<<<<<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>

A game without challenges is boring. It is possible to live a happy optimistic life without being in denial about all the shit that goes on all around.
You just gotta get up and dance with the fire instead of moping about it. Be thankful for your problems.
Without them, your life would be a fucking bore.
But don't make it all about the problems. There are magnificent wonders in this world worth living for :wink:


Edited by ThePhilosophizer (04/29/11 02:44 AM)


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