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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14367826 - 04/28/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
The vast majority of the verses that mention Jihad do not mention violence or war.




Who cares?  What verses say is irrelevant, what people do in the name if Jihad is.

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Shit, generally I'm the last one to defend religion, but your claim that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity is just plain wrong. Christianity has incited violence in the past when Islam wasn't doing so as well.




Islam is the most violent religion on the planet today.  No other religion is even close.  Every single country that borders and Islamic country has constant violence and war.  To think otherwise is politically correct foolishness and naivety.




But is this a temporal phenomenon or is it an inherent quality of Islam as a historical religion? I think that's what we're debating.

I am personally of the opinion that the association between Islam and violence is purely incidental, and that the Islamic world is currently suffering from a number of sociopolitical problems for which Islam as a religion cannot and should not be held accountable.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
    #14367829 - 04/28/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I'm just wondering if you've ever tried the whole "thinking for yourself" thang.


Ah, so quoting definitions means I don't think for myself? Genius.




Again, I asked what YOU think (capitalization included) and you quoted a dictionary... such does not indicate independent thought.


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Enlil said:
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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367848 - 04/28/11 04:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So if I think dictionary definitions are accurate, this does not indicate independent thought? Genius.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367858 - 04/28/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So violence in the US, Britain, France, Spain, Balkans, Sudan, Israel, Iraq, Kashmir, Sir Lanka, Chechnya, Philippines, Indonesia, Ethiopia...  Nearly every conflict on earth involves muslims.  The races are different, the sociopolitical situations are different, the geographic locations are different... the one common thread is Islam, and yet you proclaim that its incidental.  You are fooling yourself.  And if I may go out on a limb, I think its a function of your intense white guilt.  You simply are not able to place blame on non-white or non-western peoples and have to look for some other scapegoat to justify your world view.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
    #14367864 - 04/28/11 04:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
So if I think dictionary definitions are accurate, this does not indicate independent thought? Genius.




If I wanted the dictionary definition of "religion" I would have looked up "religion" in a dictionary. Instead, I asked you a question about your thinking, and you were unable or unwilling to answer my question straightforwardly.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367872 - 04/28/11 04:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
The vast majority of the verses that mention Jihad do not mention violence or war.




Who cares?  What verses say is irrelevant, what people do in the name if Jihad is.

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Shit, generally I'm the last one to defend religion, but your claim that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity is just plain wrong. Christianity has incited violence in the past when Islam wasn't doing so as well.




Islam is the most violent religion on the planet today.  No other religion is even close.  Every single country that borders and Islamic country has constant violence and war.  To think otherwise is politically correct foolishness and naivety.




But is this a temporal phenomenon or is it an inherent quality of Islam as a historical religion? I think that's what we're debating.


That's not what anybody else besides you is "debating".


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I am personally of the opinion that the association between Islam and violence is purely incidental, and that the Islamic world is currently suffering from a number of sociopolitical problems for which Islam as a religion cannot and should not be held accountable.


People kill in the name of Islam, what don't you fucking get?


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
So if I think dictionary definitions are accurate, this does not indicate independent thought? Genius.




If I wanted the dictionary definition of "religion" I would have looked up "religion" in a dictionary. Instead, I asked you a question about your thinking, and you were unable or unwilling to answer my question straightforwardly.


My thinking lines up with dictionary definitions--what is the problem?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offline4896744
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14367881 - 04/28/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I advocate the suspicion of Islamists.  If that is persecution than so be it.




I agree.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14367890 - 04/28/11 04:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
So violence in the US, Britain, France, Spain, Balkans, Sudan, Israel, Iraq, Kashmir, Sir Lanka, Chechnya, Philippines, Indonesia, Ethiopia...  Nearly every conflict on earth involves muslims.  The races are different, the sociopolitical situations are different, the geographic locations are different... the one common thread is Islam, and yet you proclaim that its incidental.  You are fooling yourself.  And if I may go out on a limb, I think its a function of your intense white guilt.  You simply are not able to place blame on non-white or non-western peoples and have to look for some other scapegoat to justify your world view.




Oh my God, this one again. :rofl:

How about Congo? That's not part of the Islamic world, but it is immediately adjacent, and it's experiencing the same difficulties and the same forms of violence.

Blaming Islam is intellectually lazy and will not yield solutions to any problem other than that of the white guilt you must insist on projecting onto every argument you get into that involves non-whites.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offline4896744
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367911 - 04/28/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
So violence in the US, Britain, France, Spain, Balkans, Sudan, Israel, Iraq, Kashmir, Sir Lanka, Chechnya, Philippines, Indonesia, Ethiopia...  Nearly every conflict on earth involves muslims.  The races are different, the sociopolitical situations are different, the geographic locations are different... the one common thread is Islam, and yet you proclaim that its incidental.  You are fooling yourself.  And if I may go out on a limb, I think its a function of your intense white guilt.  You simply are not able to place blame on non-white or non-western peoples and have to look for some other scapegoat to justify your world view.




Oh my God, this one again. :rofl:

How about Congo? That's not part of the Islamic world, but it is immediately adjacent, and it's experiencing the same difficulties and the same forms of violence.

Blaming Islam is intellectually lazy and will not yield solutions to any problem other than that of the white guilt you must insist on projecting onto every argument you get into that involves non-whites.




Wow, you argument that for this being no more than coincidence is that a country in Africa is at war?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
    #14367916 - 04/28/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

His "arguments" get funnier and funnier as time passes. :yesnod:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
    #14367940 - 04/28/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Africa and the Middle-East have been devastated by the effects of globalization and industrialization, and for the past century have been controlled by a steady succession of unscrupulous warlords and puppet states, many of whom have been supported by external powers who have interests in the rich resources of the region.

Exploitative dictatorships have no problems with mining diamonds using slave labor, and they pass the savings on to us. The same goes for oil-rich countries.

DieCommie will undoubtedly ascribe this position of mine to "white guilt," but nonwhite nations have also exploited this region and share responsibility. I blame Asia every bit as much as I blame Europe, but ultimately to blame are the powermongers who take advantage and perpetuate their fellow human's misery to live in luxury.

This is a very human problem. To blame races or religions is really shortsighted.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14367941 - 04/28/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

How about Congo? That's not part of the Islamic world, but it is immediately adjacent, and it's experiencing the same difficulties and the same forms of violence.




Yea, there are a few conflicts that dont involve Muslims.  But that is of little solace to the millions being oppressed by Muslims world wide.  People killing people all over the world, in the name of Islam as proclaimed by them, against both western and non-western civilizations.  As much as you dont want it to be true, it is.  Dozens of counties and millions of people have fallen victim to it.

As for the guilt, what can I say -  I think you are consumed with it.  I see it as the overarching stroke in much of your posts and opinions, and I think you have fallen victim to it.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367950 - 04/28/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
This is a very human problem. To blame races or religions is really shortsighted.


Right, and you can't blame Arabs/Islam for the erection of Mosques. :osama:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
    #14367966 - 04/28/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
This is a very human problem. To blame races or religions is really shortsighted.


Right, and you can't blame Arabs/Islam for the erection of Mosques. :osama:




What does this have to do with anything?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14367967 - 04/28/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
As for the guilt, what can I say -  I think you are consumed with it.  I see it as the overarching stroke in much of your posts and opinions, and I think you have fallen victim to it.




What you think has no bearing on the debate save how it might inform your arguments, of which you have presented none.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367985 - 04/28/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Islam is to blame for the erection of mosques in the same way that it is to blame for Islam-fueled terrorist attacks.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
    #14368001 - 04/28/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What motives did Islam have in the murder of thousands of innocents in your favorite atrocity against humanity, 9/11?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14368013 - 04/28/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
As for the guilt, what can I say -  I think you are consumed with it.  I see it as the overarching stroke in much of your posts and opinions, and I think you have fallen victim to it.




What you think has no bearing on the debate save how it might inform your arguments, of which you have presented none.


You keep criticizing our arguments, but it is you who can't seem to debate properly. :lol:


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
What motives did Islam have in the murder of thousands of innocents in your favorite atrocity against humanity, 9/11?


I already provided evidence which showed that it was part of a holy war.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14368047 - 04/28/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
... your arguments, of which you have presented none.




I think I presented them just fine.  You are incorrectly characterizing the conflicts as African and middle eastern which allows you to draw on many commonalities within that sphere.  I take a more broad perspective and look at the globe as a whole.  I characterize the conflicts as centered in the middle east, but spanning the globe.  From Spain and N. Africa all the way to the Philippians.  From India to Russia.  You can trace the spread of Islam from Arabia to the West into Spain, to the East into Indonesia and the Phillipines, and north to the border of Russia and the Balkans.  This path of cultural and religious spread from Arabia correlates to our modern and recent global conflict landscape.  Its really the only thing that such disparate peoples have in common, that and they publicly claim to fight and kill in the name of Islam.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
    #14368595 - 04/28/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Throughout history, though, Christian governments and authorities have probably sanctioned as many as or more violent deaths than Islam (averaged out over the centuries, since Christianity got a 600 year head start).




Now.  I live now.  If I was living during the Spanish Inquisition I would have a different opinion.
Quote:



Also, I would be interested in seeing whether you have evidence for your assertion that more than 0.1% of Muslims are violent radicals.  My instincts tell me that's not true, though I'd be interested to see the evidence that demonstrates its truth.




http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1783061/posts
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-472791/One-11-British-Muslims-backs-suicide-bombers-says-Brown-aide.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/22/us-usa-muslims-poll-idUSN2244293620070522
http://www.cnsnews.com/node/53865

Quote:

In the Pew Global Attitudes Project poll released on Thursday, 68 percent of Palestinian Muslim respondents said suicide bombings against civilians were justifiable “to defend Islam from its enemies.”

That view was shared by 43 percent of respondents in Nigeria and 38 percent in Lebanon, where 51 percent of Shi’ites held the view compared to 25 percent of Sunnis.

Elsewhere, the proportion of Muslim respondents supporting suicide bombings against civilians was 15 percent in Egypt, 13 percent in Indonesia, 12 percent in Jordan, seven percent in Israel (Muslim Arab citizens), five percent in Pakistan and four percent in Turkey.





Millions.  Tens of millions, actually


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