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OfflineTheAnimate
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Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated?
    #14367442 - 04/28/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm getting really frustrated. My jars colonize quickly, and I wait at least a week after what appears to be full colonization before I spawn to a monotub. I use rye berries for jars, coir/coffee/verm/gypsum for monotubs. I use about 2 cups coffee, 2 cups verm, and 1 cup gypsum per brick of coir. I just pasteurize by adding boiling water until I hit field capacity, and once it cools, I spread it around the tubs and add my colonized Rye.

Here's a pic of the tub. Sorry, it's not very good, but I didn't know how to take a better picture.



I've tried using less or more water in my coir mix, and I've tried fanning daily, and not fanning at all. My tubs always get to around the same point, near full colonization, and then they get contaminated. I thought the mycelia's immune system was supposed to be able to beat out any contamination at this point. But it's happened in my past 3 grows. Any advice here?


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OfflineSandoz
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: TheAnimate]
    #14367476 - 04/28/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

have you been trying in the same spot?  you may have to try a new room


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OfflineTheAnimate
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: Sandoz]
    #14367541 - 04/28/11 03:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Tried that too. I moved them to the exact opposite end of my apartment, from my closet, to the closet in the living room. Neither closet is used for anything else important.


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Offlineyessir
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: TheAnimate]
    #14369350 - 04/28/11 08:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You should be pasteurizing longer than that. Are you using a pressure cooker when preparing the rye for inoculation? Are you sterilizing the needle? Was the needle properly prepare?


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OfflineTheAnimate
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: yessir]
    #14370235 - 04/28/11 11:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I got all that stuff down, or at least, I feel like I do. My rye always colonizes quickly and fully, which I take to mean it has no contamination issues. But how can you pasteurize coir for longer than it takes to cool? I mean, once it cool down, it's not pasteurizing any more, and I don't know how to extend pasteurization without adding more water, which would be too much. Is there another way? Adding boiling water is the only way I've heard.

Also, why would contamination only be coming in this late into the process, when the tub is nearly fully colonized? I thought the further along the tub was, the harder it was to contaminate.


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Offlineyessir
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: TheAnimate]
    #14370267 - 04/28/11 11:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As I have read, you put the choir in a cheese cloth bag or pillowcase and you pasteurize it just as you would pf tek jars. You can also just put it in quart jars that are covered with foil (no lids).

Your issue could be due to early contamination that doesn't show itself until later. It's hard to say. Is your environment relatively clean? Are you washing your hands?


Edited by yessir (04/28/11 11:16 PM)


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OfflineTheAnimate
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: yessir]
    #14371903 - 04/29/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm washing my hands, and no, my environment isn't very clean, but I clean up as well as I can. My first few monotubs did just fine. But you don't pasteurize PF jars, you sterilize them, and I always heard you aren't supposed to sterilize coir. Besides, there's no way I could get a bag of coir in my PC.


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: TheAnimate]
    #14371918 - 04/29/11 10:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pretty sure its your pasteurizing proccess your coir really needs to stay at 165 or so for a hour,simply pouring hot water on it won't do the trick


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Offlinemroy1300
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14372058 - 04/29/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I realize I'm a noob but I cant even spot the contamination! Could someone explain about where in the picture the contamination is. I just want to see what I'm looking for so I can spot it down the road.


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Give a man a colonized substrate he grows a flush or two, Teach a man to colonize a substrate and he fills the world with fungus. (It's a good thing.)

Happy growing and good luck.


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: mroy1300]
    #14372269 - 04/29/11 11:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mroy1300 said:
I realize I'm a noob but I cant even spot the contamination! Could someone explain about where in the picture the contamination is. I just want to see what I'm looking for so I can spot it down the road.





See all that tinge of green especially around the edges od the bulk substrate?....thats Trich


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Offlinemroy1300
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14372297 - 04/29/11 11:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

steelmonkey said:
Quote:

mroy1300 said:
I realize I'm a noob but I cant even spot the contamination! Could someone explain about where in the picture the contamination is. I just want to see what I'm looking for so I can spot it down the road.





See all that tinge of green especially around the edges od the bulk substrate?....thats Trich




I thought that might be it but had to make sure. I don't mean to hijack this thread but does that mean these are junk?



I know the one looks really bad and the others are just because of the flash on the camera I think? Any opinion??


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Give a man a colonized substrate he grows a flush or two, Teach a man to colonize a substrate and he fills the world with fungus. (It's a good thing.)

Happy growing and good luck.


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Offlineauronlives69
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: TheAnimate]
    #14372367 - 04/29/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what kind of coir are you using, garden coir sometimes has trich added to it


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: auronlives69]
    #14372400 - 04/29/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thats a good point auronlives it should be pet grade coir


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Offlinemroy1300
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: auronlives69]
    #14372464 - 04/29/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

When I made the cakes I used 4 cups fine vermiculite (its all i could find), 2 Cups of brown rice flour, and 2 cups of water.

I mixed the verm and water then added the brown rice flower. I then put on the lids upside down with 4 holes punched in and micro spore medical tape over the holes.

From here I covered them with tinfoil and put them in a big pot made for canning it came with a wire rack that sits about a third of the way up and doesn't bother with the lid, filled the pot with water up to the bottoms of the jars and boiled.

After boiling started I counted 90 minutes and took them off to cool, While they were still a little warm i inoculated them with B+ spores from spores101 i got a little less than a year ago.

I wasn't to exact with the amount of solution I used. Then I let them sit in the rubermaid bin between 65 and 85 degrees F and 30 to 40% humility (I know humidity doesn't matter but I like to be detailed.

After about 8 days I removed the tinfoil after reading a post about it. The filter layer of verm in the tops of the jars is kind of loose and if i move the jars to much you can hear it moving around.

The only thing I forgot to do was flame the needle between jars. I used lots of Lysol and about 5 alcohol pads in the glove box. I wore rubber gloves with selves and washed them with alcohol pads before use.

Any input would be amazing. Thank you.

Note: The verm was purchased from a garden store although it was sterilized properly. Also inoculation was on 4/19/11.


--------------------
Give a man a colonized substrate he grows a flush or two, Teach a man to colonize a substrate and he fills the world with fungus. (It's a good thing.)

Happy growing and good luck.


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: mroy1300]
    #14372579 - 04/29/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Your jars really shouldn't be upside down and you really shouldn't be moving or shaking them around enough to hear the verm move its suppose to be a contam barrier

Why are they upside down anyway?


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Offlinemroy1300
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14372650 - 04/29/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I read in a post it helps draw out co2 and excess moisture. I'm not sure if the picture shows it but there is a lot of moisture in the jars, It builds up in droplets on the inside of the jar but the moisture is clear. I really hope its not "slime".

The jars are back sitting right side up now as I learned it makes no difference in growth or the interior environment of the jar.

Also I found out the filter layer was loose from when I rotated the jars and from handling them to take the pictures.

Hope this helps you understand whats going on a little more. In the meantime I'll see if I can get a decent picture of that moisture.


--------------------
Give a man a colonized substrate he grows a flush or two, Teach a man to colonize a substrate and he fills the world with fungus. (It's a good thing.)

Happy growing and good luck.


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Offlinemroy1300
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: mroy1300]
    #14372719 - 04/29/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Couldn't get a good picture of that moisture, Its just like one or 2 drops of watery looking stuff right at the center of the mycelium masses up against the glass.

I can tell that the cake appears to be shrinking where it has mycelium growing, I'm sure this is due to how loose the sub strait was packed in it.

I'm hoping this is a good sign also it will make birthing the cakes easier. That is if I even make it that far with these, but I suppose if one is contaminated they all are and trichaderma is everywhere? Right?

So I wouldn't really taking any risks by birthing them? Correct me if I am wrong the last thing I want is to get a contamination every try after this just because my first cake infested my house.

But isn't there some sort of chance that the mycelium will win over whatever infection is present if any?


--------------------
Give a man a colonized substrate he grows a flush or two, Teach a man to colonize a substrate and he fills the world with fungus. (It's a good thing.)

Happy growing and good luck.


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: mroy1300]
    #14372814 - 04/29/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Turning your jars upside down is used when your cakes are stalled,its sot of a last remedy to get rid of CO2 which if too much without GE will cause your jars to stall

Your cakes are shrinking because the mycelium is using up moisture and nutrients


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Offlinemroy1300
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Re: Can someone tell me why my monotubs keep getting contaminated? [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14372821 - 04/29/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So in your opinion it looks and sounds right?


--------------------
Give a man a colonized substrate he grows a flush or two, Teach a man to colonize a substrate and he fills the world with fungus. (It's a good thing.)

Happy growing and good luck.


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