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OfflineiSHACKA
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Coir Question Pls help
    #14366525 - 04/28/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hello good people

I have two 500ml jars that are 90% colonized with my first LC which im happy to say turned out clean. I was not sure this would work so I ended up with only two jars which isnt much and im not sure what to do from here.

I would like to use Damion5050 coir tek but since I do not have enough spawn i'm not sure how to modify things. Possibly given my situation there is a better option?

I used hard wheat kernal if that makes a difference and this is my first attempt at something other then BRF cakes. Thanks in advance for the advice.


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Edited by iSHACKA (05/03/11 03:10 PM)


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14366585 - 04/28/11 11:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i used damion coir tek to make a coir cake like this


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Offlineronjohn7779
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: k00laid]
    #14366621 - 04/28/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What are you trying to do...Make a tub?

In any case you really don't need a tek when working with coco-coir...

You need...
1. Hot water
2. Bricks of Coco-Coir
3. A thermostat

1. Expand the bricks with hot water (this only takes a few mins 15-30)
2. Get your water to 170-190 degrees.
3. Let the expanded bricks sit in a bucket with the 170-190 degree water for 2 hrs.
4. Drain and let cool for 7-12 hours.

I use 190 degree water because by the time the bucket of coco-coir has been sitting in hot water it starts to lose heat quickly. By the time the 2 hours are up, I've found the water to be in most cases 140-160 degrees. Using slightly hot water causes the water temps to average out to be 170 degrees over 2 hours.

Also, I never use additives. I find them just to be a pain in the ass. They really don't add much in terms of yields and generally cause contams. Normal Coco-Coir is plenty nutritious for mushrooms.I have no clue who spreads rumors that coco-coir on it's own gives sub par results...I can tell you they're wrong though. 


--------------------
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!


Edited by ronjohn7779 (04/28/11 12:11 PM)


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: ronjohn7779]
    #14366657 - 04/28/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I apologize my post was a little all over the place. I am considering making a tub, but with so little spawn im kinda worried about what size tub would work?

Could I use something like a tinfoil dish, and place that inside my SGFC?

Koolaid:

How did you make that cake it looks like your got good results.


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14366661 - 04/28/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iSHACKA said:
I apologize my post was a little all over the place. I am considering making a tub, but with so little spawn im kinda worried about what size tub would work?

Could I use something like a tinfoil dish, and place that inside my SGFC?

Koolaid:

How did you make that cake it looks like your got good results.




lol i told u.

make spawn
do damion coir tek. which is basically what that d00d posted about his coir prep.

instead of putting coir into tub. put coir and spawn into bowl.

cover. colonize.
fruit in sgfc on foil. (see pic)


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentor ship Needed :) [Re: k00laid]
    #14366666 - 04/28/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

im stoned

But this makes sense!!! lol thanks for being patience :P


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Offlineronjohn7779
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14366671 - 04/28/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iSHACKA said:
I apologize my post was a little all over the place. I am considering making a tub, but with so little spawn im kinda worried about what size tub would work?

Could I use something like a tinfoil dish, and place that inside my SGFC?

Koolaid:

How did you make that cake it looks like your got good results.



18 gallon tub.
1 Brick of Coco-Coir
3 quarts of Rye berry Spawn for every brick of Coco-Coir you use.

*General observation rye berry works best since the berry's are so small and they have amazing surface area. With other spawns you may need to use more. For instance BRF cakes as spawn will need way more then 3 quarts. Something in the neighborhood of 4-6 quarts for every brink of coco-coir. Why this is true I have no clue, but I've experienced this issue in the past 3 quarts of BRF just aren't as good of a spawn as 3 quarts of rye berries.

If you want to make mini-monotubs or trays the same process applies.


--------------------
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!


Edited by ronjohn7779 (04/28/11 12:22 PM)


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: ronjohn7779]
    #14366733 - 04/28/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I know your anxious to get started but why not do some GTG to increase your spawn first that way you'll increase your stock of spawn and won't have to start over


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: ronjohn7779]
    #14366751 - 04/28/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here is a picture, should have posted this in the first place. How do they look? This is like day 10 from LC.

The larger jar shown, which I didnt initially mention was at 30% and I shook yesterday. It is MS so going much slower, but same strain PE



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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14366900 - 04/28/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So I do Damion5050 tek, no problem. When I put it into the bowl do I need to break up the wheat and cover the outside with the coir?  How thick of a layer would I use?


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Offlineronjohn7779
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14366936 - 04/28/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iSHACKA said:
Here is a picture, should have posted this in the first place. How do they look? This is like day 10 from LC.

The larger jar shown, which I didnt initially mention was at 30% and I shook yesterday. It is MS so going much slower, but same strain PE





They look fine. Those look about 90% finished. You should be good to go by this weekend.


--------------------
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!


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Offlinem_jacobs
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14367211 - 04/28/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iSHACKA said:
So I do Damion5050 tek, no problem. When I put it into the bowl do I need to break up the wheat and cover the outside with the coir?  How thick of a layer would I use?




Essentially 2 ways to do it.

1. You take your pasteurized coir and do a lasagna.  thin layer of coir, thin layer of colonized spawn, thin layer of coir, ehin layer of spawn and repeat.  For the very top layer you can do a thin layer of coir or a "frosting layer" which is a thin layer of colonized spawn. Some people feel this helps creat a protective layer of mycelium making it harder for other contams to penetrate the top layer.

2. You take your pasteurized coir and spawn put them together and mix them together.  for the very top layer, you have the same two options as above.


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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: m_jacobs]
    #14367305 - 04/28/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I do both methods..depends on my mood both have worked equally well for me but I always leave a thin layer of substrate (horse manure or coir)as a top layer.I just don't like the idea of exposing the recently broken up spawn to contams until it has a chance to recover


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14367316 - 04/28/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you both

So if i do the lasagna method, would I birth the lasagn like a cake, or leave it in the tray/bowl and place that in the FC


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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14367341 - 04/28/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Let it fully colonize then consolodate (if you want to its optional)then case (also optional) then put it in the fruiting chamber in the tray


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14371749 - 04/29/11 08:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If I let it consolidate, then swawn to coir, would it not have to consolidate again?

Or can i just spawn it once its 100% colonized?


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14371863 - 04/29/11 09:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Spawn it as soon as its 100% colonized just to keep the mycelium on a roll then consolodate it (if you want)


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OfflineMatty_Rulez
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14371868 - 04/29/11 09:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iSHACKA said:
If I let it consolidate, then swawn to coir, would it not have to consolidate again?

Or can i just spawn it once its 100% colonized?




Hey iSHACKA..

I have a few different sized trays that i spawned wheat berries to...  I just mix the coir/grains together in the tray, then put a thin layer of coir on top...
when spawning, I don't think the myc needs to consolidate... only if it's to be fruited should you let it consolidate...  IMHO

Good luck man!!  keep us updated...


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InvisibleFungal growth
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14371972 - 04/29/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

steelmonkey said:
I know your anxious to get started but why not do some GTG to increase your spawn first that way you'll increase your stock of spawn and won't have to start over



this. :thumbup:

don't do a frosting layer. it's outdated, and steelmonkey
is absolutely right that it actually opens you up to MORE
contams than not. use some coir to make a thin layer
on top, about 1/4 inch or so. try not to leave ANY exposed grains.

gl!

FG


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: Fungal growth]
    #14372146 - 04/29/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

properly pasteurized bulk substrate or casing layers are more resistant to contams than recently broken up spawn is.

aka. i agree.


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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: ronjohn7779]
    #14372245 - 04/29/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ronjohn7779 said:
Also, I never use additives. I find them just to be a pain in the ass. They really don't add much in terms of yields and generally cause contams. Normal Coco-Coir is plenty nutritious for mushrooms.I have no clue who spreads rumors that coco-coir on it's own gives sub par results...I can tell you they're wrong though. 




I was led to believe that the only thing coco coir really lacks is decent amounts of nitrogen, hence mixing in a little coffee grounds or manure...but besides that it is really nutritious.


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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: zydisqwap]
    #14372294 - 04/29/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zydisqwap said:
Quote:

ronjohn7779 said:
Also, I never use additives. I find them just to be a pain in the ass. They really don't add much in terms of yields and generally cause contams. Normal Coco-Coir is plenty nutritious for mushrooms.I have no clue who spreads rumors that coco-coir on it's own gives sub par results...I can tell you they're wrong though. 




I was led to believe that the only thing coco coir really lacks is decent amounts of nitrogen, hence mixing in a little coffee grounds or manure...but besides that it is really nutritious.



There's plenty of nitrogen to grow mushrooms in coco-coir without coffee grounds. I've never had an issue with un-potent or low yields with straight coco-coir. Coffee grounds from what I've seen (even when properly pasteurized) are one of the single largest contributors with mold contaminations. If you use coffee grounds make sure they're fresh or were frozen. You don't want to use something thats been siting out for more then a few hours. Coffee on its own will mold up in a matter of hours. Just look at coffee grounds in left in a coffee machine overnight.


--------------------
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!


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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: ronjohn7779]
    #14372321 - 04/29/11 12:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree I would definately shit-can the coffee grounds I do however use them in my rye grain soak


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14372505 - 04/29/11 12:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

thanks for the feedback guys,I feel confident now in what I need to do, and what I can do.

I will not be using any additives, although I do have worm castings on hand. I still wont try that this time. I have used coffee in soaking my grains and i have never had quicker colonization.

I am not doing G2G with these two jars because I have a very large pint jar which is a bit behind colonizing that im going to use to make a lot of spawn through G2G.

This here is my mini experiment to get used to using coir, so if anything goes wrong I can learn from it and nail my large experiment.

Peace :smile:


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Edited by iSHACKA (04/29/11 12:56 PM)


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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14372598 - 04/29/11 01:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Good luck wre all with you on it and hopeful
oh,don't be afraid to add gypsum as a additive it can't hurt


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14394731 - 05/03/11 02:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hey guys

So I have my coir in the bucket, waited 1 hr, mixed it up a while bunch and going to wait for it to cool

My quesiton is,

Do I have to drain the excess water out of the bucket before I use the coir?  I did not use a specific amount of water I just boiled a good sized pot worth of water and dumped it in.

How would I drain the water?


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OfflineMatty_Rulez
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14395749 - 05/03/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hey dude...      You should follow a good coir tek like Damion's...  gives you perfect moisture content...

but since you already did it...  the best way is to just squeeze it out til it's field capacity...  won't take long...  you should wear gloves or at least wash your hands...

good luck!!  you spawning that PE??  :rockon:


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: Matty_Rulez]
    #14396233 - 05/03/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

well its done, :smile: I ended up squeezing the water out with my clean (I hope) hands lol.

I was following Damions tek, but for some reason I thought I remembered the water content not being specific. After a bunch of research a lot of others have got away with what I did so hopefully Im fine.

This was just a test run, worst case scenario I have a lot more grains ready to play with!


Could someone please describe what field capacity should feel like?  By the time i had squeezed the coir it felt like mildy moist soil.  Not saturated.


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Edited by iSHACKA (05/03/11 07:24 PM)


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OfflinePerun
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14396286 - 05/03/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If you squeeze really hard, a small stream should flow for only a second or two and then stop,If you squeeze "softly" there will be just couple of drops!


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First:                                                        Then:


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: Perun]
    #14396441 - 05/03/11 07:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sounds about where I was at, but then I squeezed a bit more before filling the container.

So based on this im on the dry side... Also I didny layer it very thick as I had little spawn.

Its sitting in my version of Doc's mini mono.  Should be interesting ill post results in 10 days.


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OfflinePerun
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14398048 - 05/04/11 01:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think its better to be on a dry side just a litlle bit! Faster colonization and less chanse for contam! I just started fruiting something i call BBBB(Big Bad Bulk Block) :laugh: Coir/verm. Ill post some pics here later so you can see!


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First:                                                        Then:


Edited by Perun (05/04/11 03:55 AM)


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OfflinePerun
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: Perun]
    #14398155 - 05/04/11 02:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Pics! BBBB in its splendid beauty! :laugh:

10x10x4





So i had some left overs of spawn and bulk and i mix it in a big tray,cover it,let it colonize and i decided to fruit it like a cake(block) in a SGFC just so i get more pining surface!

And ofcourse...my helpers! :laugh:

Shiitake


Shatzi


They just love this stuff!



:lol:


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First:                                                        Then:


Edited by Perun (05/04/11 04:06 AM)


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: Perun]
    #14445791 - 05/13/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Update,

My tub is fully colonized with the PE.  I have been reading a lot about consolidation vs introducing fruiting at a 100% colonization. 

I will let the tub sit for 3-4 more days at this point then introduce fruiting. Feel free to chime in.


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14445799 - 05/13/11 02:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

its common practice to actually let your substrate remain in colonizing conditions until it starts pushing up some knots. but this is done by the more experienced cultivators who can see knots from a mile away.

and they know fruiting space is harder to come by than colonizing space.


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: k00laid]
    #14445849 - 05/13/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

When I peaked I saw some weird knots/blobs? but I still had a tiny tiny spec or two of coco showing.

This was like 2 days ago.  I havent looked but im assuimg those tiny bits of uncolonized coco are not colonized.

I see what you mean tho, its not something you can just put a numnber on. 10-15 days ect


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14445892 - 05/13/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

this is what knots and pins look like very early.


i put that into fruiting conditions too early. but it still works.


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OfflineiSHACKA
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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: k00laid]
    #14445977 - 05/13/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

wow so i should actually wait for pins? How will it pin without evaporation,  FAE?


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Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: iSHACKA]
    #14446066 - 05/13/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I took the polyfill out of the holes and put in a room with a fan, and it's really started to knot...  I replace the poly very loosely at night time...  this seems to really help evaporation....  I believe evap and FAE are the most important pinning triggers, IMHO...

exciting...  isn't it??    :laugh:


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Life would be tragic if it weren't funny. - Stephen Hawking


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OfflineiSHACKA
Sick boy


Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 483
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Mentorship Needed :) [Re: Matty_Rulez]
    #14446251 - 05/13/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh its exciting all right, very curious to see how my adaptation on the monotube will work out lol.

Couldnt make a conventional one, but this oen looks like it will work just dandy.

now just gotta keep the evil green meanie away


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Pain is just weakness leaving the body


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